BlackSox13

This article kind of makes it sound like Baltimore threw an offer at Cespedes in an attempt to get him on the cheap. Interesting take. http://www.camdenchat.com/2016/1/15/107742...yoenis-cespedes "Making sense of the Orioles interest in Yoenis Cespedes"

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 15, 2016 -> 08:28 AM) I expect more stolen bases than that. Probably in the 20 to 25 range. He may not be the fastest guy around, but he's an incredibly smart base runner. I believe he was top 5 in time from first to second on stolen base attempts. Come to think of it I think Saladino was third behind Hamilton and someone else.

About 200k below his projection. Lawrie got +200k while Avi got -200k. I love the law of averages.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 15, 2016 -> 12:24 AM) I'm telling you, we need an upgrade at ss. Anybody out there?? An infield of Frazier, Lexi, Lawrie and MVP excites me as far as potential. An infield of Frazier, Offensive Black Hole/Defensive question mark, Lawrie and MVP is scary. I thought we wanted to contend. To keep Lexi it would have only taken 6-8 mill for one fricking year. I don't understand lest we sign Desmond. Tyler is the upgrade at SS with his youth, range and strong arm. Desmond is a liability who's bat and glove have been regressing for three straight years now. Alexei's bat regressed last year and his defense has been regressing for three straight years. Don't fear change Greg, it will be OK. Greg, what you seek is not an upgrade but a named player for a piece of mind. Simple as that. Saladino will be the only non-veteran player in the lineup so if you think the Sox contending hinges on one Tyler Saladino then you're not seeing the big picture. What I don't understand is how you were ok with making Thompson an every day outfielder and labeling him a "star" based on two months in the majors but your not ok with Saladino at SS. Look up their respective minor league numbers some time, you might be surprised at how similar they are with the bat. Both players are known for their defense with a few question marks in regards to their bats. If a fan was fine with the idea of letting Thompson have a chance at playing everyday ( I'm one of them) then I see no difference in letting Saladino have a chance to play everyday at SS.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 10:46 PM) I said all along that that Sox wouldn't get Cespedes or Upton but I would sure like to be wrong. If the Sox thought LaRoche at age 35 and 36 and coming from the NL ,was a bat that would get them into contention along with their other moves then why is paying Cespedes with experience facing AL central pitching, until he's 33 (4 year deal) or 34 (5 year deal) such a bad thing ? Seems like everything has fallen into the Sox lap to sign him so why not get him at reduced years and salary compared to what everyone thought it would take to get him ? If they can't take advantage of this market I have no idea how they plan to compete with no one in the minors to step up and very little left on the farm to trade . For me, spending that much money on one player for a team with as many holes and limited payroll as the Sox, it just didn't make sense to me. Still, I hoped like many but still kept my expectations low due to not wanting to assume JR would raise the budget and set myself up for a let down if he didn't or couldn't. You know what they say about assumptions. There are two main differences I see between the LaRoche signing and potentially signing Cespedes to 4/5 years. 1) LaRoche was signed to p!ay 1B/DH so there's less health risk risk involved when compared to signing an outfielder. 2) signing LaRoche to a two year deal worth 25M total is less risky than a 30 year old player to a 4 or 5 year deal worth 90M+. I would still like for the Sox to be able to sign Cespedes to a reasonable contract but I'm at peace with the idea that it could very well not happen. I still trust Hahn will come up with something.

Alexei did right by the White Sox and he will be missed but let's face it, he's slowing down with age. It happens. Alexei's range and arm strength will continue to diminish just like any other aging SS. Saladino should give the Sox more range at SS with a younger arm. The question is will Saladino be able to hit well enough to stick? That's the gamble but then again, so is keeping an aging veteran at a position that relies heavily on range and arm strength.

I know this won't be a popular perspective but if Baltimore is willing to go 5 years on Cespedes then they can have him. I think it's possible the Sox have been made aware of this offer and why we've seen the reports about the Sox looking elsewhere. One more thing, Hahn has no balls!

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 07:04 PM) His season last year was quite the outlier. I wonder about his focus if he has a long term contract. I see what you mean, he definitely had a career year in '15. I'm not sure what to think of him at this point. Maybe there's a reason the Sox and possibly other teams have cooled off on him a bit.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 05:20 PM) That was my favorite role of his. The Voice of God is going home. Yep, same here. His dry, witty sarcasm was perfect for that role and movie. The Brits are off to a horrible new year with Lemmy, Bowie and Rickman passing away.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:47 PM) There's no doubt in my mind if he takes something like 5/80, it tells me teams had red flags about how he'll perform going forward Agreed. Haven't there been questions about his projections for 2016 and potential for a regression? I forget which stats but a few people on here have questioned if Cespedes would be able to sustain those stats.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:40 PM) I could be wrong, but this seems like a push to get Davis to decide It could very well be but going by recent articles written, Baltimore comes off as being pretty frustrated so they may have decided to move on. Baltimore has money to burn and an open spot in the outfield so they just might be serious about Cespedes. Things just became much more interesting, that's for sure.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:39 PM) Rox or anyone else wont have to match 7 yrs, etc if Balt signs Cespedes No doubt about it. It's very possible Boras/Davis have already turned down the best offer they will get.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 06:27 PM) I will say this, if the Orioles land Cespedes for a contract in that range, then I'm going to f***ing enraged. I can believe Baltimore is offering 5 years but I think Crasnick is way off on the dollar amount. That proposed offer is in the range of what Gordon got and Cespedes should get more than that. Unless the offer is for 3/4 years 75-90M range, that would make more sense. Crasnick's numbers don't jive that's for sure.

"ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick tweets that “it’s believed” that the Orioles are willing to go in the range of five years and $75-90MM for Cespedes at this time. He also tweets that the Orioles are becoming increasingly frustrated with Davis and might even be on the brink of walking away from negotiations entirely." http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/01/orio...s-cespedes.html

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 05:58 PM) What I'm really interested to see is if the O's indeed sign Cespedes or Upton. Where the hell else could Davis go? Who else has that kind of money for a 1B? I hear ya, I'm really intrigued as well. The Rockies have the money and opening at 1B but I'm not so sure they would match or exceed the 7/150M Baltimore offered. Boras is one of the best at what he does but I think he and Davis were stupid for turning down the Baltimore offer. Imo, Boras selling Davis as a corner outfielder in a market flooded with outfielders is a desperate attempt to gain interest from more teams, and its failing.

Smart move by Baltimore and I seriously doubt they are posturing for the Davis negotiations. If Boras/Davis want to wait why should Baltimore? Cespedes would fill a void that Baltimore has. Slowly but surely it sounds like Cespedes' market is coming around with Baltimore and Atlanta rumored to have made offers.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 05:00 PM) The only time I've used that projection was just a little bit ago. Everything else is from past years. He's a very bad defender. Especially in Center Field. Just how much are you willing to sacrifice is the question. I'm on record of not wanting to sacrifice defense anymore in the outfield. I dont want to see tons of out of position runs given up again. Just poor fundamentals from bad defenders. And yet you have admitted that Fowler is barely an upgrade over Eaton so I really don't see the sacrifice you're talking about. Help me understand where you're coming from because I don't see it. Do you not think Eaton would be an upgrade over Melky in LF or Avi in RF? Adding Fowler to Eaton in the outfield would make the outfield more athletic by removing one of Melky/Avi who run more like lumberjacks. Don't get me wrong, I agree the Sox need better defense from the outfielders.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 04:29 PM) He's barely a defensive upgrade. He still gave up 20 runs in 2014 and 11 runs in 2015. Technically Garcia was better in that department than Fowler was. There was atleast a positive in the assists column. Cant say that for Fowler. Plus to the person who quoted Fangraphs. They have him at a -8 for next year. It's true Fowler is barely a defensive upgrade over Eaton but by moving Eaton to a corner OF spot, Eaton upgrades that corner spot. I'll take Eaton in LF or RF any day over Melky or Avi. As for projections. Without knowing for sure what ball park Fowler will be playing defense in, that projection is rather meaningless. Imo, a more accurate way of looking at it is to judge Fowler's defense based upon last year. The Cell has deeper gaps but shorter lines than Wrigley so the difference should be somewhat minimal and roughly the same amount of ground to cover.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 03:36 PM) These Fowler in CF thoughts...do people keep glossing over how bad his defense was there? No but let's not pretend Eaton was any better in CF either. As crazy as it sounds, Fowler is a defensive upgrade over Melky/Avi/Eaton. Yep, that's how bad the Sox OF was last year.

If Cespedes wants to continue to wait this out then fine, I hope the Sox move on. Take the money and sign one of Fowler/Jackson and a SP. Starting to think signing an OF and SP will help the team more than just signing Cespedes.

Take it for the little its worth... http://metsmerizedonline.com/2016/01/lates...-unlikely.html/ "Mike Francesa of WFAN just reported that there is no truth to rumors that the Mets and Cespedes are close to agreeing to a one- or two-year deal, although they still remain in contact."

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 02:49 PM) Either way we cut it, anything is an upgrade over Avi in RF, IMO. I think Fowler is a bigger improvement than most give him credit for because his name is Upton/Cespedes & he costs a pick. That's exactly how I see it as well. raBBit mentioned the other day about how Eaton has had trouble picking up the ball off the bat at the Cell in CF so maybe Eaton switching to one of the corners will help in some way. Worth a try.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 02:46 PM) What option would you rather choose? Sign Fowler and Jackson, move Melky to DH, lose comp pick. Sign Desmond and Jackson, lose comp pick. Great question. I'd go Fowler/Jackson.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 14, 2016 -> 02:43 PM) Say we get Fowler for 3/40-45, and offered Cespedes 3/60, that money could go elsewhere in a starter or another trade for a need. Excellent point and I agree. Spread the money around to build more depth for the overall team.

I'm sad to see Alexei go but I'm extremely happy to see him find a home.