steveno89

QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 04:13 PM) Anyone think the game of chicken ends after today and something gets done? Doubtful I still think Quintana gets dealt closer to the deadline Sox would love to move him, but know they absolutely cannot settle for a lesser package with their final blue chip trade piece

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 02:26 PM) #1 and #4 go a long way towards bolstering my argument that 2019 is too soon. Those players won't be helping us in this time frame in all likelihood. The class of 2016 by and large is going to be ready to debut in around the 2019 to 2020 range, and being contributors a season or two after that. Even if we sign a guy like Robert think of that time frame. When is he going to be able to sign? June? July? That gets him into the system in mid-2017 if he signs. At 19 years old, and having missed a ton of baseball recently, when is a realistic time frame for him to get to Chicago? A guy like Moncada signed in March of 15, and saw his first action in September. That gave him two full seasons in the minors for all intents and purposes. Assuming Robert is as advanced, and is able to move through the minors just as quickly, that puts his debut sometime in the middle of 2019. Also remember what Moncada looked like in his debut last year, and realize that there is a pretty good chance that expecting the guy to contribute to a playoff team in two seasons is pretty unrealistic. Realistic to me is a mid to late 2020 debut, maybe a regular and contributor by 2021 or 22. #2, being a top spender in free agency is something I am going to doubt until it actually happens. Sure we have come in second for top talent a lot of times, but our history doesn't give me much hope of luring Manny Machado to the south side. #3, the inevitable Q deal is of definite interest. At this point every single team we have talked about has refused to send us their top positional talent. No Meadows, no Bergman, no Swanson, no Torres. Getting one of those first three guys gives us a guy that instantly fills a hole that we currently are projecting for the future. Anyone below that and the odds of that the prospect we get failing goes up by a decent amount, along with the timeline of when they will be ready to contribute. Again, not really helping us be ready for a 2019 playoff team. An Atlanta deal with Albies as a headliner gives another middle IF, but where does he play? With Anderson set at SS, and the team grooming Moncada into 2B, where does he go? If he is in the deal, one of the three is probably moving to CF, I would guess? Who knows. A Houston deal with Kyle Tucker headlining the position players gives us a guy with a grand total of 69 ABs at A+ ball. The odds of him being an anchor for a 2019 playoff run? Again, maybe a guy who if he hits well can make a 2019 debut at around mid-season, but probably not someone to count on for that season. A Yankees deal with Frazier as a headliner would get us a guy who is on track for a 2017 debut, and should be a contributor by the 2019 time frame. If the deal is NOT led by Frazier the prospects for a guy contributing that quickly diminishes by a large amount. Torres, (who supposedly is untouchable anyway), Rutherford, Andujar, and Mateo are in the lowest levels of the minors. They are all guys who are in the 2020 to 2021 time frame to really help a team. Even when I try to put specifics into the organization, I am not seeing it. What you are saying is valid, but quite a few of our prospects should be ready to contribute by 2019 Moncada, Collins, Giolito, Dunning, Hansen, Call, Fisher, Basabe, Burdi, Kopech, Lopez could all be at or near the mlb level I'm not saying payoffs in 2019, but it is not out of the question. Detroit is getting old and does not have much of a farm system. Cleveland is in it's prime right now. Kansas City's prime is ending. The Twins are stuck rebuilding, but I like the Sox farm better. What large contracts do we have on the books beyond the next 2 seasons? Sox will have tons of payroll flexibility to add to the roster via free agency. I'm not saying we shell out for the mega guys, but we have plenty of money for quality free agents I'd be happy with Albies as a headlienr to a Quintana deal. He could play 2B and Moncada moves over to 3B? Albies also has the speed and arm to play in center. I'm less concerned about positions right now as I am in acquiring the best possible talent. Albies is arguably underrated despite being a top 15 prospect. Great makeup, speed, glove and hit tool

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 02:07 PM) The problem may have been they were 100% in on Robert and simply weren't sure which class he'd end up in. If that were the case, they obviously couldn't go all in on the 2016-17 class. Sox might be thinking the MLB will intentionally drag its feet on clearing Robert, making him a part of next year's class In which case it would be smart of the Sox not to go crazy prior to him becoming a free agent You would have to think Chicago would be an attractive destination with all the young talent we are assembling?

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 12:59 PM) Rob Young @RobertHYoung now Hahn stopped short of assigning Michael Kopech to Winston-Salem, saying that Kopech has made "awfully good case" to start in AA Birmingham Not much harm in having him start the season in Winston-Salem. You can always promote him to AA in a few months.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 11:19 AM) This is the exact reason that people are too optimistic on this rebuild. The window is way too short for the guys who are in the minors now to be productive at a level to put us on a playoff arc. Plus there is still not nearly enough offensive talent even here to achieve that. Like it or not, with not getting much offensive talent in the Eaton/Sale deals, plus not getting anything for Q as of yet, the timeline really hasn't advanced that far. We still need drafts and development out of players we don't have yet. There is currently not enough offensive talent, but you are discounting many factors 1) Likely high draft picks the next few seasons, starting with #11 overall in 2017...Sox need to draft well 2) Sox have tons of payroll flexibility moving forward and will be in position to spend on free agents to fill holes 3) The inevitable Quintana trade should net us 3-4 quality prospects, which will bolster our farm even more. I guaranty the Sox will get at least one or two bats back in a deal for him with high upside. 4) International signings. Sox are rumored to be very much in on Luis Robert. Going all in on him makes perfect sense for what we are trying to do. Yes, we will rebuild and suck in 2017. 2018 will be painful as well as many of our young prospects going through their debut and growing pains 2019 the roster should be improved from our prospect depth and anticipated free agent signings. I expect the team to be active. Allot can change in the next few seasons, but you have to like the pitching depth we are stocking up on Rodon, Fulmer, Giolito, Burdi, Hansen, Dunning, Lopez, Kopech, Adams, Stephens As Hahn stated, the Sox are closer to the beginning of the process than to the end.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 11:11 AM) Three seasons as in 2019? No way. Not a chance. There isn't enough talent here yet for that. 2020 is when the window opens IMO. If Matain takes 5 or even 6 seasons to get here, that puts him right smack in the middle of things in 2021 or 22. He won't be on the front end, but he would be right in the middle of the revival, if it works. Doubtful he reaches the majors and is ready to produce at the level we would need him to as a rookie Keep in mind, my projected timeline is a "best case" scenario for a prospect like Maitan 2017 = suck 2018 = suck, signs of improvement 2019 = ideally get back to around .500, definite signs of improvement 2020 onward = window of contention I would not get stuck on Maitan, a deal could get done with Atlanta without him

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 10:52 AM) Everyone fits into our time line. I think people who think differently are way underestimating how long it will be before this team is going to be good again. Obviously Matain won 't be in the first wave, but he should be in the middle of the period where this team is good again. If you look at what the White Sox have done this winter, it is that they aren't getting all guys who are major league ready. Kopech and Basabe for example are years away. Yes, and no Maitan is 17 years old and will not be mlb ready for at least 4-5 seasons. I'm fine with him as a second piece, but the Sox are looking to turn this around within the next three seasons or so. Best case timeline for Maitan would be: 1) DZL league this year, possibly see some rookie ball 2) Rookie ball next season, possibly some low A 3) Likely a full season in low A, potentially getting bumped to high A mideason 4) Full season at AA, potentially getting bump to AAA late 5) AAA or possibly MLB debut We don't really have the luxury of waiting that long on a player. Maitan would be a high school junior right now...nowhere near mlb ready

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 10:55 AM) Not to mention 2B isn't a premier power hitting position anyways. If they do get him hypothetically, he or Moncada would have to move to the OF. Depends what the sox value more. Defense or all star appearances. Actually 2nd base has become more and more of a power hitting position as of late. A league average second baseman hit 18 home runs last year

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 10:37 AM) With a guy like this, if you wait for him, you miss out on him. This is the best chance the White Sox have left to get a kid who is quite literally regarded as a generational talent into the system. Three years from now, he is going to be where Yoan Moncada is at. Perhaps, but he is only 17 years old In three years he will be nowhere near mlb ready His ceiling is compared to Miguel Cabrera and Chipper Jones, but zero mention of what his floor is. Maitan does not fit in with our rebuilding timeline, as the Sox are looking for prospects much closer to mlb ready As a second piece in a deal with the Braves? Absolutely I would be on board. But as a headliner there is far too much risk

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 10:32 AM) He hasn't even had a professional at-bat yet. He's 17 years old. The hype train has to slow down a bit until he shows he can do it against pro competition. Maitan has proven nothing so far, and is ages away from the majors

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 10:09 AM) I would much rather get Matain instead of Albies or Acuna. Honestly Albies with zero power doesn't excite me at all as a headliner. You are really underrating how good Ozzie Albies can be MLB.com scouting grades on him = Scouting grades: Hit: 65 | Power: 30 | Run: 70 | Arm: 55 | Field: 65 | Overall: 60 He might never hit for much power, but is a great leader, plus hitter, plus runner and a great fielder Imagine a lineup that had Anderson, Moncada and Albies in it? Young, athletic and dangerous speed. Each of those guys is a threat to steal if they get on base

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Mar 23, 2017 -> 08:21 AM) I really like this, except to make it a little more palatable for the Astros, sub Martes out for a lower level arm (Perez or Whitley). Teams are not generally willing to part with 5 top 15 organizational prospects in one move. It is just not a good baseball decision. I'm not sure Jennings inclusion is necessary here

QUOTE (beautox @ Mar 22, 2017 -> 08:56 PM) Quintana & Jennings for Martes/Tucker/Reed/Laureano/Stubbs That package feels like to much talent leaving the astros to be honest That's five of their top 12 organizational prospects... Not happening

QUOTE (ecupittfan @ Mar 22, 2017 -> 03:57 PM) So James Shields throws 6 shutout innings and now has a 2.53 ERA 1.031Ratio and 10 Ks in 10.7 innings. Its a long shot but if Shields somehow ends up with an ERA hovering at under 4.00 towards the trade deadline then we can actually get something for him. We all can only hope that happens If Shields is decent in the first half he will be flipped

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 22, 2017 -> 04:44 PM) Once you get past Martes and Tucker in the deal, the rest of the guys the Sox would be getting are probably B to C level prospects. If I had to be realistic and predict a possible trade for both sides: Martes + Tucker + Hernandez or Laureano + Alcala

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Mar 22, 2017 -> 04:36 PM) Probably, but I guess Tucker and especially Martes don't get me all that excited. I want depth if we deal with the Stros. They might not be truly elite prospects, but they are the best in the Astros farm by a considerable margin The Astros have the farm to make a deal happen, but seem reluctant to pull the trigger at a time when they absolutely should go all in

QUOTE (yesterday333 @ Mar 22, 2017 -> 04:21 PM) Is nobody interested in Yordan Alverez? I know he is a 1b but he seems like an interesting prospect to me. As a final deal sweetener? perhaps, but as a significant piece? No way His value is 100% tied to the bat, as he projects as a below average fielder with below average speed at first base

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Mar 22, 2017 -> 04:12 PM) Then no soup for you. Martes and Tucker are musts. Then two of Fischer, Reed, Perez, Whitley and Stubbs. I would personally be OK with no Martes, but I'd want something like Tucker, Fischer, Reed, Stubbs and Perez in that case. Wishful thinking No organization is going to send (5) top 15 organizational prospects in exchange for 1 player This has been talked about to death over the winter End of the day a potential deal will look like: 2 top 5 organizational prospects (that are top 50 overall talents) plus one or two more B level prospects to round out the deal

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Mar 22, 2017 -> 04:07 PM) My guess is the White Sox want Torres and want to deal with the Yankees. Torres is not being moved by the Yankees, lets face it Pirates won't part with what it would take Braves or Astros make the most sense

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Mar 22, 2017 -> 03:54 PM) Hopefully the fact that they draft 4 times before the 3rd round even helps persuade them that they can take the hit. They may not draft as good of prospects (which they could) but the lesser round guys at least helps replenish depth. Eventually a contender (like the Astros) will realize it wants to win right now, and worry less about 5 years from now

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Mar 22, 2017 -> 03:39 PM) I'd be underwhelmed. "Martes and Tucker and after that I would love: One of: Franklin Perez Ramon Laureano Garrett Stubbs One of: Daz Cameron Jason Martin Miguelangel Sierra" Martes + Tucker + Perez/Laureano/Stubbs + Cameron/Martin/Sierra would be a very compelling offer that I would find hard to pass up I do not see Houston being willing to offer up 4 top 12 organizational prospects though

QUOTE (Springfield SoxFan @ Mar 22, 2017 -> 03:25 PM) Of course and I get that; however, there has been a reticence to name him when he is clearly healthy and the man for the job. I still would say 90% chance that Quintana is on the White Sox roster by opening day Teams know the price, Sox have zero reason to budge

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 21, 2017 -> 03:14 PM) The one player that is interesting to see if he is changing minds is Lopez. Could he win a job? No chance they call up Lopez until late May/early June It would be a big mistake to start his service clock before we have to

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 21, 2017 -> 01:29 PM) Yeah, so he got claimed, and now he's shown to be healthy which was a big part of the question with him. I'd be surprised if he cleared waivers, but we'll see. Brian Clark is the only "young" lefty getting a real look at that level, and he's not quite ready yet. The team may not elect to carry a 2nd lefty at all, but if they do, Luebke is the guy. Liriano has not had a great spring, outside of showing that he appears to be healthy They might be able to sneak him through waivers

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Mar 21, 2017 -> 01:20 PM) His spring stats are better than I thought, but still, I don't think he'd have much deadline value even if he was decent and I'd rather give a younger guy his spot. What other young lefty would you rather go with? Clark is the only other lefty, and I feel the organization would like him to spend a bit more time in the minors before getting called up