Southwest Sider

I just realized that I pretty much posted the same thing twice in 2 paragraphs. That's what I get for starting a post and then finishing it a couple of hours later.

Driving around a bit earlier, listening to 1000 and 670 discuss the trade. The guys on 670 couldn't wrap their minds around this direction. The "going for it" direction. Trading prospects for MLB players. Their argument is that it probably only adds 2-5 wins to a team that only won 76 games. That is possibly true. Even if they add a big-name outfielder, will they have added enough wins? Maybe not! Then what was this exercise good for? Why did the Sox go for it instead of cashing in on assets? It feels like the Sox, in the position they are in, have to go for it. Hahn has repeatedly said that they want to win a championship WITH Sale and Abreu, instead of selling them off. It only makes sense to go for it, while they are here, while they are good. Build the best team you can without completely dismantling the farm. But if our worst fear comes true, that the Sox yet again have another season of mediocrity, will there still be that feeling of being pigeonholed into attempting to contend? If the Sox add an OF, their roster will look pretty set for at least the next 2 years, short stop and catcher aside. After this season, they could move Melky to DH and replace him with Avi(if he gets good) or another OF. They could also attempt to bolster short stop should Saladino prove not good enough, as well as be on the prowl for another upgrade at catcher. Or they could finally decide to go in the other direction. Why? Because it won't be too late. In the shoes of Rick Hahn, it would be incredibly difficult to ignore the following assets and what they might be able to retrieve you via trade: Melky (1 year left) Robertson (2 years left) Duke (1 year left) Frazier (1 year left) Lawrie (1 year left) Admittedly, since you cannot expect all 5 of those players to be at their maximum possible value by the end of next season, this group probably wouldn't bring in more then 1 or 2 blue chip prospects, along with lots of lottery tickets and decent to good prospects. That would be a pretty nice farm reload, all while still leaving the front office the option of either keeping Sale/Quintana/Abreu/Eaton, or selling them off and really going for a rebuild. You could try to trade any number of them and acquire some big-time prospects and MLB ready players. You could also trade none of them and still try to build around them, given their friendly contracts. But trading at least Sale and Quintana might not be a terrible idea. If the Sox are savvy enough, and with enough luck, you could have a bunch of new young players taking their lumps in 2017 with a rotation headlined by Rodon, Fulmer and Adams, and by the time the '17 and especially the '18 off season rolls around, potentially be in a good enough spot to where you could add a few key free agents to a budding club. The point of this post is to illustrate that the Sox, while committed to winning now, are not so committed to winning now that the future is completely jeopardized. I hope I have shown that with the possibilities that the future could hold for the franchise.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 16, 2015 -> 04:26 PM) 4/100 gets a deal done with any of the remaining outfielders, imo. The per year on that is enough to entice any of them to sign, imo. I think the more likely deal is a longer deal with an out at year 3 or 4. That's true. That is what I was thinking, for the most part. Not enough years.

Frank said he'd pay him 4/100. I'm sitting there thinking Frank... that's not enough...

Probably just a coincidence, a few days ago my ticket guy left me a voice mail. Today, not 5 minutes ago, he left me another. Casting lines for STHs in order to pay for one of the big OFs?

I think that a lot of people share their initial reactions before allowing some time to think about it and let other posts influence how they feel. I learned about the trade about an hour after it happened, and as I read the initial posts my feeling was that "I hope we didn't just trade all 3 of those guys for just Frazier..." As a fan, I was excited to see if TT could stick in our outfield, and to see if Montas could help the back end of our bullpen. Micah Johnson I wasn't excited about. Losing those "exciting" things hurts, initially. And then, add the idea that worries me along with several other posters, that Frazier will struggle in the AL, and right away it seems like we paid too much. I was about ready to post as such. But I kept reading the thread and thoughts others have shared. The fact that we didn't have to trade Anderson or Fulmer. The significant detractors of the 3 prospects we traded. Frazier is a power hitter that this lineup desperately needs while also being above average defensively. Initially, I was kind of upset, but with most trades that happen, after the initial feelings a general contentedness settles in and I feel better. However, I absolutely agree that if you want to contend, you need to upgrade RF or LF, or both. Avi carries considerable risk as a starting OF for us. Our team is going to be much better off with Avi in AAA being a depth piece for us should one of our starting OFs get injured.

That was quick.

At this point, I'd rather keep Laroche. Like others have said, he is the perfect bounce back candidate, and if he does in fact bounce back, will be much more attractive to teams during the season. I just hope the Sox plans this offseason aren't contingent on moving Laroche. That would be terrible.

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 04:57 AM) i have one flaw in your post, a major flaw. if the sox haven't been able to trade the bolded, what make you think they can do it after the asg??? I meant to say the trade deadline, dunno what I was thinking there. Of course, it is contingent on the fact that they are actually playing decently. And, if that's happening, there's a good chance the Sox are winning games. So it is very unlikely those guys get dealt, but still possible under the right circumstance.

I can definitely see the idea of the Sox being big-time sellers if they don't have a good year. Could be as early as the all star break (Danks and Laroche) Next offseason, you would have Melky, Duke and Lawrie available with only 1 year left, and Robertson with a 2 year contract. Besides a Robertson who continues being great, none would command a haul. But all of them would together would inject a sizable sum of talent into the system. And then you have the weak free agent starting pitching class to try and exploit with Quintana and/or Sale. Not the worst position to be in should your team flop in 2016.

This is a fantastic deal, I'm really surprised that there wan't a better offer out there! The A's must really have wanted to unload him, unfortunately for them with only 1 (maybe 2?) suitors. I'll enjoy a modest 3B upgrade with the potential for it to be an insane 3B upgrade. I'm now rooting for Lawrie to really break out. He seems to have a passion for the game, so that is a good start.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 11:12 AM) Robin was also on MLB network the other day and said Olt may get a shot at third. What is said in the media really means very little. While it is inconceivable on the surface to even fathom Olt getting a shot at 3rd, if a trade like this doesn't go down, then that's what we are looking at. All things being equal, Trayce getting a shot at CF is far likelier to happen then Olt getting a shot at 3rd base.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 11:08 AM) I think the sox may keep trayce, but that sounds like classic use of media to try and hype up a player for trade. I was considering that angle as well, but it just doesn't seem to make much sense in relation to this trade. Maybe others. Going out there and telling the media that Trayce is going to compete for CF just doesn't seem like a way to increase his value. His value is already as high as it has ever been, in my opinion. Teams have tape on him, they probably all have some kind of scouting report on him. Other teams are too smart to let what the White Sox say dictate the value that they originally placed on a player such as Trayce.

To anyone worried about losing Trayce: Not 24 hours ago articles came out saying he was going to be given a shot at CF in ST. Obviously, this doesn't completely preclude the Sox from dealing him. Nonetheless, I doubt that the Sox would deal him after not being too far removed from comments like that. I'm pretty happy about that, too. I'd like our organization to be the first to see if Trayce can make the adjustments required to be a good major leaguer. I'm not ready to trade him, at this point.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 10:33 AM) I see this impediment more as a sign the follow up moves to this are either falling through or not as progressing as fast as they anticipated when this leaked late last night. I think we see a few moves quickly. And I still think this is part of the plan Sox just don't want to announce it yet. And we aren't giving up Trayce for him either Agreed, this sounds like the Sox are still lining up another domino or two.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Dec 8, 2015 -> 11:58 PM) He is 26 and better then any other option we currently have, right? Trading for a 3rd basemen from the A's was a really good idea, last year. This year it is still a good idea, but Brett Lawrie isn't that great. He has the potential, no doubt, but he isn't great. That should be a significant detractor to his value. His youth, however, and relatively healthy season still gives him value. I just don't think I'd agree with sending any of our top prospects OR Erik Johnson for him... But if the Sox are dealing from a position of 'desperation' or 'we need this guy', then they are probably going to lose this trade. If they are acting out of a position of acknowledging his value, but aren't terribly motivated to make a deal, then they could win this trade or at worst, have it be a lateral move. This trade, if it goes down, will tell me a lot about who is really running this team.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Dec 8, 2015 -> 11:50 PM) How would people feel about an Avi-Lawrie swap? I assume good I really hope this is the case.

At this point, I just cannot get excited about Frazier. He seems like he could be a solid offensive piece and contribute to a potential playoff team, but he also seems like he could be yet another player who falls on his face in the AL. Maybe I'm just used to that. There is no possible way I'd consider trading any of our best prospects for someone like that. Best case scenario is he adds a few wins. Worst case scenario is that he doesn't do much extra hitting then Laroche did this past season.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 06:23 PM) How so? Anyone can take a guess as to what might happen and end up looking brilliant in the future if they were correct. It would seem, though, that if it was really true that it was inherently obvious that Jeff Samardzija would have a terrible year, then one is left wondering what is wrong with the people who run this team? Are they so stupid as to miss this obvious mistake? I fully realize that this organization is not the most competent one out there, but I am not a believer that they are so incompetent that they would miss the most obvious things in the baseball world. Making a trade, giving up a few prospects and quasi-big league players, for a guy who is, in the very least, a workhorse pitcher makes complete sense to me. The idea was that we would sign him to a contract extension should things work out. Our rotation would be further bolstered for years by a good Samardzija. There was even seemingly some mutual interest early in his tenure in Chicago. Then things derailed. The fact of the matter is, it didn't work out. People who were nay saying were correct. But it made sense. I'd do the trade again, in a heart beat, to potentially acquire another piece of the rotation puzzle. However, from the comments I have read about how really obvious it was to some that this wouldn't work out, then I must be just as ignorant as our front office. I guess we're all just a bunch of damned fools. Shucks... If I were JR, I'd sign onto this website and private message everyone here who knows better then his team. Get that advice on big time decisions instead of listening to someone who graduated from Harvard and a bunch of people who have been around baseball their entire lives who are paid to make these decisions. Big time decisions can be tough to make, this was one of them, it didn't work out, and at the end of the day to anyone who ended up correct, I still say to them... Good guess.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 05:04 PM) Seemed like basically everyone had the parameters of a Samardzija deal down last year early enough for me to spend a couple days saying how terrible of an idea that deal was before it happened. It's really a shame that the Sox didn't consult you before making this trade. A pitcher who is seemingly on the upswing of his career all of a sudden having the worst year of his career is incredibly difficult to predict. You are owed many kudos for knowing that this was going to happen. Good guess. Besides that nonsense, there are times I feel that the Sox play close to the vest, and other times I don't. I was pretty surprised news leaked of Avi Garcia being available. That seems like something that wouldn't be leaked. KW's old mantra was "flying under the radar". There's a bit less of that now, I feel like we hear more then we used to despite the lack of interest from the local and national media. There's most likely a good balance between flying under the radar, and having public information, and since Rick Hahn has become our GM, I feel like he's making an effort to find that balance.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 11:35 PM) Doc has to be the most likable man in sports. http://www.nbcsports.com/video/hbo-real-sp...k-hockey-legend Thank you for sharing that.

The more I think about it, the more I like this series of moves. Avila can hit righties, Navarro can hit lefites. However, knowing that the majority of pitchers are right-handed, having a switch-hitting Navarro makes sense so that Avila doesn't play most of the games. This move makes sense, and I hope it works out for the Sox. Another plus is that this is now out of the way before the winter meetings start, as I am certain there will some large fish to fry there.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 07:42 AM) Beckham, Flowers, Alexei...next year Danks and LaRoche. Avi supposedly on the block. They are running out of punching bags. Thank goodness. The Sox have needed to trim some of the fat off of this roster for awhile now. These guys just aren't winners, and that's what we're all looking for. And frankly, even though I kind of liked Alexei, he just didn't seem to have the mentality of a winning baseball player.

It would be nice for this to be out of the way before the Winter Meetings begin. Judging from the quotes, it sure sounds like it will be. That would be one less thing for the front office to worry about during the flurry of deals that are going to happen next week. Here's hoping it's a potentially impactful catcher!

I'll take 8/12 points on the circus trip.