Southwest Sider

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 09:46 PM) Nothing of quality to offer up, just the usual weak attempt to deflect any criticism of the crack management team of the Sox? Well color me SHOCKED! So unlike you. Your posts are always premium content and one of the reasons I visit this site. His posts (probably all 127,000 of them) are usually post-inflating garbage with little to offer. I've never seen a post from him and thought "well he put some effort, thought, and analysis into that."

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 09:38 PM) I've seen less drama on Jerry Springer. Get a clue dude. Thad Bosley's post is an incredibly rational post, and it makes a ton of sense. Chiding him for a well thought out post like that is classless, especially from someone like yourself, a board administrator who should be an example-setter. The writing is on the wall if the Sox refuse to pony up for Cespedes' demands. In this market, whether there are bidders or not, he deserves a contract in the Gordon-Upton range. If the Sox don't pay the price and sign Cespedes, you will see a lot of already complacent Sox fans questioning ownership's commitment to winning even further. No Sox fan should be happy trotting out Garcia, Fowler or Jackson after what our main divisional rivals have done to improve! The Tigers already had a good offense, and they signed Upton. The Royals won the World Series. We have a crappy offense with some promising additions, but there is still no guarantee that this offense won't have huge issues with run production. I understand signing Cespedes does not guarantee a division title or wild card, but mark my words, if the Sox don't sign Cespedes, they will not win either.

QUOTE (soxfan85 @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 09:24 PM) Our ownership is a joke...one of only 3 MLB teams NEVER to have given out a $70M or greater contract. Ridiculous. And if this 3-year thing is true given today's market, they are completely insane and should be ashamed of themselves. Sell the damn team to somebody who wants to win already. I agree wholeheartedly. The onus is now on the Sox to get Cespedes. I know signing him guarantees nothing, but this is a tough division and they are expecting to compete. If you are expecting to compete, keep up with your opponents who are dominating you in the free agent competition. And if they don't.... well, an already complacent fanbase is going to get even more complacent. I think that unless you inherit a quadrillion fans, then you have to show your fans that you will step up to the plate for their money. No one wants to spend excess money on crap and that's what the Sox have been since 2005. By having ownership never willing to step up to the plate on a big free agent just makes things worse. Year after year goes by and we always watch big free agents sign with other teams, including our main competitors. I use the word "big" in the meaning in that they would command a massive contract. Year after year we are told that you don't need to spend the big bucks to compete. Year after year our farm system is marginal at best and can't produce the talent needed to compete with teams that do spend the big bucks. Being a Sox fan totally SUCKS sometimes, and it will continue to suck if they don't sign Cespedes.

[meatball post] Awww, the stupid White Sox can't finally pony up for a premium free agent. But look, we made other marginal additions! Look at Fraziers numbers! He won't have any trouble playing in a league with better pitching! And Lawrie is a grinder with room to improve! Except he is injury prone and hasn't lived up to his potential yet! We don't need Cespedes... Garcia will get better (better odds of that not happening) and if we sign Fowler, he can add his elite OBP skills! Forget that he is just a nice ballplayer on a team that is already elite!" Cespedes isn't a perfect ballplayer, doesn't have elite numbers, but he does drive in runs, and the Sox NEED THAT. If he was a perfect player, he'd be commanding in excess of a 200 million contract! Pay the man what he is WORTH, for crying out loud. It's no wonder Sox fans don't go to the park, Reinsdorf and company will rarely ever sign a premium free agent. For crying out loud, other teams have signed what appear to be crippling contracts yet they still compete, they still sign useful players during other years. I know Ilitch is old and crazy, but having insane contracts already didn't stop him from adding to his team. We have ZERO "insane" contracts and can't finally decide that maybe one "insane" contract might be worth the risk? I'm sick of this. I hope the Sox understand that even though they already have a bleak attendance outlook, it's only going to get worse for them with an "all-in" attitude without actually going "all-in". They may as well just had sold high on their assets and started a rebuild, and they would get the same attendance outlook. [/meatball post] Thanks for putting up with it.

"This just puts them in a position to compete with us". This really changes the landscape for Cespedes. He has every reason to expect a similar deal, at this point, and I doubt the Sox give it to him. Even though I agree that this is a pretty dumb deal for Detroit, it further exacerbates a problem we are all too familiar with; that the White Sox will not pay open market price for a premium player. Cespedes will get his money from someone and we will be left with Fowler or Jackson. I know I said I was warming up to the idea of Jackson, but with KC retaining Gordon and Detroit nabbing Upton in an already tough division.... I mean seriously how the hell are you going to expect to compete!? You need someone who is a run producer in the outfield and that is Cespedes. Jackson and Fowler are okay players on an already elite team, but they will not push this team over the top.

I think I'm warming up to the idea of Austin Jackson on a 1 or 2 year deal to compete with Avi Garcia. Though I would love Cespedes' run production on the Sox.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 12:55 AM) Roc Nation is a new agency and are driving to get their guy top dollar, to not succeed in that chases current and future players away from a new agency. All these leaks mean zero in reality. It's just a nonsense pissing match between camps trying to get their point across through media members. I was going to post something to similar to this, but then discovered that any players who signed up with Roc Nation while CAA was still affiliated are still represented by both. Cespedes main agent in this game is from CAA. Nonetheless, your point does still hold some ground. Roc Nation has since split with CAA and in order to attract high profile sports players, it would behoove them to push for a Boras-like deal. That said, CAA is still involved in this and I'm sure most high profile sports players do their homework on sports agencies. I don't believe Roc Nation has added any significant players as of late. Sure, Cespedes signing a lucrative deal could help. But it didn't seem to appear that Robinson Cano's huge deal has paid dividends for Roc Nation, because CAA was involved. Frankly, I don't even know what the hell Jay-Z thinks he is doing trying to set up a sports agency. CAA cut bait with him after their short relationship. Roc Nation has negative press, you can easily find some using Google. In the end, I agree to an extent that Roc Nation might be trying to press for a massive deal. But the lead agent Brodie Van Wagenen of CAA will be signing off on the final deal. And if the massive deal isn't there, the massive deal isn't there. After enough time has passed, Cespedes will be faced with either taking the best available deal, or sitting out Spring Training or more. I hope that the best deal is from the White Sox. As for Roc Nation, I think they will have a short-lived life. I don't envision them luring many high profile sports players away from respected, well-established sports agencies. I think that their mantra to potential clients is that they will maximize their earning power through the marketing of that player. That promise basically means to me that their players would become one of the few "faces of their league". Is CC Sabathia a face of the MLB? Robinson Cano? Good players yes, but not household names. Ndamukong Suh? Everybody hates him! Dez Bryant? Many people hate him, too! Not much marketing potential for people that the public does not like! The only person on their roster I see as a face of their league is Kevin Durant. He's due for a big deal, and should go to a big market to maximize his earning potential. It looks like the Lakers will make a strong push, but it will be VERY interesting to see if Jay-Z tries to convince him to go to NYC or NJ. It would be smart of Durant to choose LA....

That's a lot of money for a guy who could end up like Adam Dunn.

Beautiful sweater AustinIllini. When they released that ones design, it made me kind of regret purchasing a Toews Winter Classic from last year. But I got a good deal on it because I don't think they were in high demand. I like the design this year slightly better, the black shoulders with white numbers is awesome. But I also like last years design. The all black numbers appeals to me a little bit more then the normal away sweater, which has a red border around the numbers. What I also fell in love with on my sweater is what appears to be the 1955-1956 C logo, which is awesome. I know it didn't get much love from most fans, but I still love it.

The only thing that intrigues me about Fowler is his LH bat, speed and OBP. The rest of his game leaves much to be desired... and it's not like we really need a leadoff hitter or grinder-type of player anyway. We need more legit power, in my opinion. And if you sign Fowler, your OF is pretty pathetic in terms of power. If you sign Fowler you're DEPENDING on Laroche turning back into a 25+ HR guy, and that is not something you can actually depend on. You can hope, you can argue that he will or won't... but you cannot depend on it. If you sign Cespedes then his power output will help offset Laroches if he has another terrible season. This team with Fowler just does not have enough power for a park like US Cellular. If the Sox are going to depend on hopes, then I'd just as well rather see them throw Garcia out there full-time again and depend on the hope that he actually develops into a good player. Keep the money for a better player and keep the draft pick.

I like standing room. Just gotta get there early and camp a spot. It only sucks when something happens where all the fans stand up.

Alex Gordons contract helped to reset the market in a way. He arguably took a hometown discount, and still got a 4 year deal with a possibility for a 5th year. There's definitely room for the Sox and Cespedes agent to meet in the middle, but it has to be on a 5 year deal, in my opinion. Cespedes is arguably more valuable then Gordon, and he should be compensated as such. There is no chance in hell he signs a 3 year deal. The only question is... which side is less willing to meet in the middle? If it's the Sox who won't move off of 3 years, then they aren't seriously pursuing Cespedes. If Cespedes won't move off of a 6 year deal, then the Sox have to keep waiting for them to budge off of it. If neither side is budging...more waiting. I find it very hard to believe that the Sox are still willing to only go 3 years after the contract Gordon just received. I believe the Sox brass is smarter then that, so this leads me to believe that Cespedes still isn't budging off of a 6 year deal. It almost seems like Cespedes has no other choices but to sign with the White Sox...eventually... which continues to make this a most interesting situation. There don't appear to be other serious suitors, but the longer this goes on, the longer a team like Detroit maybe sees the value in offering him a 5 or 6 year deal to not only add to their team, but keep him off of the Sox. Cespedes is probably waiting for the wildcard himself, Mike Ilitch, to decide to sign Cespedes. Hopefully the luxury tax is imposing enough to keep them away from a long term deal. If Detroit finally decides to go in another direction with their OF, then you will probably see Cespedes camp finally be willing to meet the Sox somewhere in the middle.

I am shocked that Davis has an offer of 7/154 out there and hasn't taken it. Who is going to bid that higher? Or even close? If I'm the Orioles GM I am shrinking that contract every two days. Holy crap. Edit: I realize this should probably be in a Davis thread, but there isn't one, so I digress.

I would be shocked if that offer for Davis was still "kind of" out there. If it was, he'd be a damned fool to not take it. With the way the market has moved now, Davis might be looking at 3-5 year deals just like the big 3. He's got to be kicking himself for not taking that 150 million when it was offered.

Avi better be there.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jan 1, 2016 -> 09:26 PM) I just want us to get this done. I think adding Lawrie and Frazier to a solid core helps with it. I think it'll be Cespedes and Abreu will help. Not until the agents and players finally flinch. They're soon going to realize that no dumb team is going to enter the scene and fork over a boatload of cash for no raisin, and it is likely that there will not be a bidding war. Couple that with the fact that there are still 6 or so outfielders looking for work and we are now into the new year. Finally, the players and agents will be faced with a decision. Do or don't sign a contract from the one team that is probably offering the best contract available before that one team lands one of your competitors. The agents are probably getting exhausted from trying to win this staring contest and drum up some kind of bidding war. I'm genuinely curious to see where the other 2 players will land and what kind of deal they get. As much as some may love to hate JR for having a tight purse, or what have you, I appreciate the strategy that the Sox employ particularly with this market. The players and agents appear to have no leverage whatsoever other then "Our player (Cespedes, Upton, Gordon) is better then Avi Garcia". And that isn't much, in my opinion. It would be absolutely ridiculous for the Sox to just decide to panic and pay these guys what they want just to get it done and over with. Without other seriously interested parties, the only risk of the Sox losing on any of these 3 players is that they would all decide to sit out the season. Not happening. This process may yet last a couple of weeks, but eventually a player will decide to not be one of the two still holding the pot.

Judging from some of the recent discussion, it sounds like the Sox haven't even made an offer yet. One would think that if it's taken this long to produce an offer, then it should be a pretty enticing, well thought over offer. I'm excited to see what transpires.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Dec 23, 2015 -> 07:56 AM) Bowman was out negotiated by a better GM. I'm not like most Hawks fans who are Bowman apologists who think he is the most brilliant mind in the NHL. Even so, it's pretty clear what happened here. There was no "negotiation". There never should have been one, because the Hawks absolutely, positively had to unload Sharp. If a GM pays a dear price for a player that a team has literally zero choice but to trade, then they are an idiot, no matter how good the player. There was no leverage whatsoever for Bowman to even have negotiations. Jim Nill, credit where it's due, stuck to his guns. But that's what he should have done. That's what every other GM in the league should have done. Basically, they tell Stan Bowman "this is the deal, take it or leave it." Bowman can try to negotiate, but the counter to that is "Look, we know the position you are in and you have no leverage. You have no choice but to accept our (terrible) deal or violate the league salary cap". Knowing that, I give Jim Nill credit for actually being the GM that acquired Sharp, but beyond that I don't give him credit for shrewd negotiations because his play was so obvious that even someone like I could see that this was really the only way this could transpire.

Good team, good coach, I think Dallas has done a good job to become what they are now. We'll just have to see if they can keep it up through another 40+ games and an entire postseason. As for the Hawks, they just need to keep winning as many games as possible. This is one of those games when, in the moment, can feel incredibly disheartening to lose, but the season isn't even halfway over yet and a lot can change. Tip your cap and move on.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 11:11 AM) I personally am not worried about Laroche I think he bounces back big time this year. If you add Upton or Cespedes his bat continues to slide down in the order and the less we rely on him. I'm okay with Laroche on this team, if we have the money to sign one of these guys, I think the line up is better with one of the big three PLUS Laroache. I agree with this. Hell, even Adam Dunn bounced back nicely in his 2nd season with us. If Laroche really is LaDunn, as some have so affectionately referred to him as, then I expect he will be much closer to his career norms next season.

I agree that the Sox would have to win at least 2 or 3 more championships to steal the city... INCLUDING beating the Cubs in the World Series. And that would still only give them a chance of 50/50 in the immediate term. At that point, the diehard Cubs fans would never switch, so they would still have a massive fanbase, but most casuals would be onboard and a new generation of Chicago baseball fans might turn to the Sox because they are winners. If the Cubs fall back into mediocrity and the Sox win a few more championships over the course of a couple decades, then the tide would start turning in the Sox favor with older generations of Cubs fans dying off and new generations choosing the Sox because of their winning ways. /dreamland. Thinking of this does remind me how crucial of a point this is for the White Sox franchise. The goal right now is to not only get to the World Series, but defeat the Cubs in it because there is a good chance they will be there. Knowing this, it really behooves the Sox to spend more now to get the best possible team in the field to give yourself the best chance of denying the Cubs a title...

Eventually these free agents are going to have to realize that teams are not bidding up for their services. There's just not enough suitors. Makes me laugh at the Cubs a little bit for splurging so much on Heyward. They might have thought they were setting the market, but at this point it's probably going to look like a huge overpayment.

Good movie. Did anyone else feel like they were watching Wall-E during some of those BB-8 scenes?

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Dec 17, 2015 -> 10:30 PM) If the Sox got Upton/Cespedes, I would send Avi to Charlotte to start the year. He doesn't really have any value at the moment. Who knows, maybe he kills it and rebuilds some trade value allowing the Sox to flip him for someone. Avi in AAA is great for the Sox OF depth chart. He won't like it, but he needs to work on his craft, and it is better for that to be done in the minors. He's young enough still.

The OF that we might sign brings another interesting element to this. Whether it is Upton or Cespedes, there is likely a chance that there is an opt-out after year 3. This could make said player more marketable to teams in trade proposals, further adding to our depth of players we could deal to reload. Of course, there is also the angle that you add an Upton or Cespedes for them to be a part of the "core". But if they have good seasons, they will opt-out anyway, so you cannot bank on that.