#1 is the key.  The expectation of a rebuild is that you maintain a low payroll and essentially tank for high draft picks but when you are near your window of competition, you finally spend big to fill in your holes.

Edited December 12, 20196 yr by Moan4Yoan

24 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

The Sox don't owe you shit. It's entertainment. I also don't ask the theater for my money back when the movie sucks. It's voluntary. 

We don't owe them shit, either. It is voluntary. I will no trouble staying away from the ball park if this team continues to lose. 

2 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

#1 is the key.  The expectation of a rebuild is that you maintain and low payroll and essentially tank for high draft picks but when you are near the window of competition, you finally spend big to fill in your holes.

Yeah, and they took something away about summer that I loved - enjoying White Sox baseball - for 4+ years under the guise that they had some grand plan.

Those stars and scrubs teams could be so frustrating, but Jesus Christ at least they won 85 games, 88 games, 89 games. At least they put a sensible product on the damn field, even if the end result was disappointment. At least in August and September I had something interesting to watch.

They hoarded the money, and have zero intention of investing it back into the organization. It was all BS. All the White Sox are going to do is return to the level they were once at, when in reality they should be exceeding that pay level because they just saved over 100 million by doing this rebuild.

26 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

The Sox don't owe you shit. It's entertainment. I also don't ask the theater for my money back when the movie sucks. It's voluntary. 

This isn't a movie. Comparing those two things is laughable.

Baseball is a huge time investment. Fanhood for many is a lifetime of commitment and support to something that they have no control over. It's a community of like minded people; it's a family bond and memory creating activity. It's something to tell stories about for years with your father and grandfather. 

Movies are something you do to pass an afternoon; baseball is something you do to pass a lifetime.

48 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Why are the Sox only in play for 2nd level free agents?  The Sox front office loves fans like you.

Has nothing to do with the front office. Everything to do with the budget set by He Who Must Not Be Named.

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Has nothing to do with the front office. Everything to do with the budget set by He Who Must Not Be Named.

What does Fernando Tatis Jr. have to do with the White Sox budget?  ?

56 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Idiots?  Hahn wrote the narrative himself and talked about the Machado money being spent.  The Sox haven’t been spending for years of offseasons and losing.

Enough fucking excuses.  It’s time.

did he says it all had to be spent this off season RIGHT NOW, RIGHT NOW.

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Wow, what a spot on assessment.  Look, I hope the Sox have some reason to believe he’ll improve and not just age like many here cite.  Make me look like as asshole twelve months from now.  Unfortunately our track record of unlocking underperforming bats has been quite poor so I’m very much not optimistic at the moment.

I completely understand the frustration, especially with the Sox pro scouting department. They really don't get the benefit of the doubt (I do like what they've done with their amateur scouting however). What I find interesting about this deal is I am assuming Hahn asked Hostetler (who was promoted to that position) about Mazara. They have obviously liked the kid for a while and the potential is crazy. But... potential is just a word and alot of guys just don't hit that ceiling on what they could've/should've been. 

Now personally, I make a move like this last season to see what you have in him as you were not looking to compete and can evaluate a guy longer. Mazara has not been great to start his career but he isn't terrible either. Said it on this thread he has some interesting numbers that I feel can translate in our park dimensions better (namely the gap power) as well as things I hope Menechino see and works with him to get the best out of him (launch angle, barrel %, etc.). It's an interesting gamble for a 24 year old who definitely can "figure it out" and does have an arm out there to keep runners honest. 

Now what I also find interesting is the new rule change and I thank god they changed the 3 batter rule because it's going to stop a terrible manager (Renteria) from micromanaging matchups. You put Mazara in between 2 right handed hitters and... look at that... he's going to be facing more RHP in later innings. In essence, it also helps guys who are stronger on one side of the plate over the other. Now does this mean that I love the risk/move? No... but I am definitely willing to see how it plays out.

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

did he says it all had to be spent this off season RIGHT NOW, RIGHT NOW.

The longer you wait, the closer the kids get to free agency, and the closer the competitive window is to closing.

31 minutes ago, Cashman said:

With the biggest contract that they handed out is $73M, do you honestly believe they are gonna hand out not 1 but 2 $200M contracts?

All depends on how they perform in the next few years. They've been pretty loyal to true stars.

14 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

We don't owe them shit, either. It is voluntary. I will no trouble staying away from the ball park if this team continues to lose. 

Okay. Cool. Later. 

Sox sign Bumgarner: gives up a ton of flyballs, kind of a red ass, may clash with Anderson and the theatrics, getting old

Sox sign Ryu: may not be as good in the AL, injury prone

Sox sign Castellanos: can't play defense, getting old, RHH

Sox trade for Price: getting old, supposedly lazy, some questionable playoff performances in the past, owed a lot

Sox trade for Benintendi: he was worse than Mazara!

Can't wait to hear one of the above responses. Actually no, I prefer none of them happened so I don't have to see it

10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This isn't a movie. Comparing those two things is laughable.

Baseball is a huge time investment. Fanhood for many is a lifetime of commitment and support to something that they have no control over. It's a community of like minded people; it's a family bond and memory creating activity. It's something to tell stories about for years with your father and grandfather. 

Movies are something you do to pass an afternoon; baseball is something you do to pass a lifetime.

Oh for christ sakes, stop being so dramatic. There's literally zero ROI in sports fandom. It's dumb and illogical by nature, no matter how you want to romanticize it. If it was logical, we'd all be Yankees fans. 

1 minute ago, soxfan49 said:

Sox sign Bumgarner: gives up a ton of flyballs, kind of a red ass, may clash with Anderson and the theatrics, getting old

Sox sign Ryu: may not be as good in the AL, injury prone

Sox sign Castellanos: can't play defense, getting old, RHH

Sox trade for Price: getting old, supposedly lazy, some questionable playoff performances in the past, owed a lot

Sox trade for Benintendi: he was worse than Mazara!

Can't wait to hear one of the above responses. Actually no, I prefer none of them happened so I don't have to see it

You can play this game and find something wrong with every player.  Last offseason, people were finding faults with both Machado and Harper.

So just don’t acquire anyone?

Edited December 12, 20196 yr by Moan4Yoan

4 minutes ago, ptatc said:

did he says it all had to be spent this off season RIGHT NOW, RIGHT NOW.

Well, considering they had a historically bad RF and have a gaping hole in SP, it would be pretty logical to fill those spots with money considering next years class has significantly less depth and good players.  That's what you should be doing as a competant front office instead of holding the bag praying 1/50 dumpster dives pans out.

8 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

What does Fernando Tatis Jr. have to do with the White Sox budget?  ?

What does Moncada, Jimenez, Robert, Abreu, Grandal have to do with the budget?

I can see why you have the attitude you do if you expect them to be perfect. Everyone GM has made bad moves. They just need to make mostly good ones.

1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Well, considering they had a historically bad RF and have a gaping hole in SP, it would be pretty logical to fill those spots with money considering next years class has significantly less depth and good players.  That's what you should be doing as a competant front office instead of holding the bag praying 1/50 dumpster dives pans out.

Excellent post.

1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Well, considering they had a historically bad RF and have a gaping hole in SP, it would be pretty logical to fill those spots with money considering next years class has significantly less depth and good players.  That's what you should be doing as a competant front office instead of holding the bag praying 1/50 dumpster dives pans out.

They did improve at catcher and RF already. There are other ways to obtain players besides FA. 

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

What does Moncada, Jimenez, Robert, Abreu, Grandal have to do with the budget?

I can see why you have the attitude you do if you expect them to be perfect. Everyone GM has made bad moves. They just need to make mostly good ones.

It was a joke.  Tatis Jr. was nicknamed “He Who Shall Not Be Named” around here.

Just now, ptatc said:

They did improve at catcher and RF already. There are other ways to obtain players besides FA. 

They get an A+ for improving at catcher but it’s probably a D for right field.

5 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Oh for christ sakes, stop being so dramatic. There's literally zero ROI in sports fandom. It's dumb and illogical by nature, no matter how you want to romanticize it. If it was logical, we'd all be Yankees fans. 

You're just wrong, but whatever makes you feel better.

If your only view on ROI in life is monetary, then I feel sorry for you.

Sports aren't the same to everyone; I spent my life playing and following the game with my father. It was the #1 thing we bonded over for 30 years. Maybe to you, that's nothing but to many those things matter. The Sox may not owe me, directly, anything... but as I said, I sure as hell can express my frustrations with a product that I've invested a lot of time and money into.

Edited December 12, 20196 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

They did improve at catcher and RF already. There are other ways to obtain players besides FA. 

Again, they only "improved" because they were HISTORICALLY BAD in RF.  They went from a negative number to a barely positive number.  That's not a real improvement.

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You're just wrong, but whatever makes you feel better.

If your only view on ROI in life is monetary, then I feel sorry for you.

Sports aren't the same to everyone; I spent my life playing and following the game with my father. It was the #1 thing we bonded over for 30 years. Maybe to you, that's nothing but to many those things matter. The Sox may not owe me, directly, anything... but as I said, I sure as hell can express my frustrations with a product that I've invested a lot of time and money into.

It's not like your experience is unique. Most of us just grow up at some point. Carry on.

6 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

It was a joke.  Tatis Jr. was nicknamed “He Who Shall Not Be Named” around here.

Got it. Must have missed that one somewhere. I refer to JR that way.

4 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Again, they only "improved" because they were HISTORICALLY BAD in RF.  They went from a negative number to a barely positive number.  That's not a real improvement.

I would call that improvement. They should be better in RF than last year. That only helps the team.