21 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Could have also been “The Empire Strikes Back” with the whole Jedi versus Sith gimmick. 🤣

41 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

And look at the Cease trade. The Sox could get back 2-3 good looking prospects and they could all turn into poop. There is no guarantee.

If Murakami was a free agent after this season, then your argument would have some merit. But trading him now when you have another entire year of control over him and the team could potentially make the postseason this year would literally make no sense. None. Also, what would that say to the fan base right now? Attendance would go into the shitter even worse than normal if Jerry basically lucked into a superstar and immediately traded him when the team is just 2 games out of first place.

It simply isn’t happening, whether you think it should or not. As far as trading him in the offseason or before next season’s deadline at the very latest, I am all for it if they eventually realize he has no intention of resigning here and is looking for the largest payday he can get.

If the Sox traded Mune by this season’s deadline, it would be a more memorable negative moment in Sox history than the White Flag Trade and Jerry would get so much s%*# for it he would probably be forced to sell to Ishbia before 2029.

So much apathy in the fanbase it would hardly register.

Look at the Shark and Tatis moves a decade later. Barely register.

That was also an incredibly competitive team in 1993/94 and still had a lot of the components from those teams.

White Flag was a total shock. Now everyone is inured to that.

Sox let Buehrle Thomas Ventura Fernandez Durham McDowell go, etc.

Pushed out Ordonez Lee Valentin.

Traded Sosa AND Baines.

Pushed out Fisk.

The only thing that will change the franchise trajectory at this point is new ownership and a new Top 3-5 downtown stadium.

Edited 18 hours ago18 hr by caulfield12

Scott Van Pelt on ESPN just posed the question, "Does every AL team but the Yankees and Rays just suck???"

https://www.espn.com/mlb/standings/_/group/overall

11 (ELEVEN!!!) AL teams bunched up together within 3 1/2 games.

(3 1/2 games also the White Flag spread).

Then the Astros and Angels.

Edited 18 hours ago18 hr by caulfield12

15 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Fine.

What are they doing, then?

Lip reported no talks of an extension yet on either side.

Stalemate.

You can't definitively say he can't/won't be traded before the deadline next year.

They're going to copy the Angels with their failed plan for retaining Ohtani and end up getting nothing back in return?

1) The Sox aren't trading Murakami this year. That would be a PR disaster, destroying any good will the signing created in the Japanese market, and among Asian players.
2) Trading Murakami next TDL is not the same thing as trading him this TDL.
3) This team is on the verge of being competitive. Why should they trade Murakami?
4) A QO draft pick isn't "nothing". The extra pick they received from Seattle in the Santos trade turned into Blake Larson, and they had extra money they used to sign Bonemer and Antonacci.

15 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

1) Not even close.
2) That was a veteran team that was foundering in the face of the Indians' dynasty.
3) But listening to WestEddy too much has convinced you the team as currently constituted is a playoff competitive one.
4) This is the exact same way they ended up holding onto Luis Robert past the point of no return in terms of his trade value.
5) This is still a 70-75 win team with three starters and Schultz has never gone more than 84 innings in a season.
6) You can't possibly be suggesting they trade prospects in order to try to compete THIS year?
7) That's exactly how they ended up dealing Tatis/Johnson for Shields and $$$$ in 2016.

1) The Sox are closer to first place than when they traded Alvarez, Hernandes and Darwin.
2) And Murakami is part of a young team that beginning to look exciting.
3) Why am I catching strays? The team is competitive. I doubt they make the playoffs. They're a year off. They'll get close a time or two, but they're way too inexperienced to make a legit push.
4) You're suggesting that Murakami has a problem staying on the field? If that's how they hung onto Robert too long, then they should be trading every single player with value, including Colson, Schultz and Ant-man.
5) And then they'll be worse than a 70-75 win team without Murakami.
6) Nobody has suggested that. Well, I might have, but sure, guys like Gonzo and Bergolla look like good utility players, and they're kind of blocked here. If somebody wants to start them, has a #3 starter to let, and the Sox feel they're that close, why not?
7) No it isn't. They dealt Tatis due to some combination of KW being way too aggressive, and Hahn not knowing what he had in the farm system.

15 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Boyer hasn't officially converted on anything as of yet.

Just vague talks with the Japanese tourism bureau about trips to Chicago for shopping and to see the Cubs/Sox...both teams.

The odds facing the White Sox at the time of White Flag to win the division were in the 25-33% range vs. just 1.4%.

The prize wasn't even all that great....Foulke Howry M.Caruso and the injury prone Barcelo. Two relievers and the equivalent of Jacob Gonzalez/Meidroth/Antonacci.

It was really a salary dump of three veteran pitchers.

Here, watch how easy this is: "No, actually, Boyer has been burning up the phone lines, and is pretty close on a few major sponsorship deals and broadcast rights in Tokyo." It's easy to just make things up and act like they're true.

They targeted Caruso, Foulke, Howry, and thought Barcelo was the actual prize of the trade. Caruso was a top 40 prospect, and they immediately jumped him from A+ to the majors. He started for two seasons until he fell out of favor with KW. Just calling a trade a salary dump doesn't actually make it true.

The white flag trade actually did what you're suggesting, trading guys in their walk years to salvage any value.

45 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Here, watch how easy this is: "No, actually, Boyer has been burning up the phone lines, and is pretty close on a few major sponsorship deals and broadcast rights in Tokyo." It's easy to just make things up and act like they're true.

They targeted Caruso, Foulke, Howry, and thought Barcelo was the actual prize of the trade. Caruso was a top 40 prospect, and they immediately jumped him from A+ to the majors. He started for two seasons until he fell out of favor with KW. Just calling a trade a salary dump doesn't actually make it true.

The white flag trade actually did what you're suggesting, trading guys in their walk years to salvage any value.

latimes.com/sports

The Ohtani jerseys are flying off the shelves, even the virtual shelves, for as much as $346.99 per jersey. The Dodgers are making a killing on this, right?

No. The revenue from licensed merchandise — jerseys, T-shirts, caps and so on — is split equally among the 30 major league teams, so the Angels get the same cut as the Dodgers from the sale of Ohtani jerseys. (The exception: The Dodgers get a greater share of revenue for sales at Dodger Stadium and at Dodgers Clubhouse stores in Southern California and Las Vegas.)

Everyone wants to watch Ohtani, especially in Japan. The Dodgers will cash in on selling television rights to broadcasters in Japan, right?

Again, no. Major League Baseball controls international broadcast rights and splits the revenue equally among the 30 teams.

Is Getz going to promise Japanese corporations he will still be with the White Sox on October 1st, 2027?

Even if he does so, the big investments won't come until he has a definite long-term home.

He might personally make in the $7-10 million endorsements range like Soto Judge Harper internationally and Yamamoto mostly back in Japan.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by caulfield12

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

1) The Sox aren't trading Murakami this year. That would be a PR disaster, destroying any good will the signing created in the Japanese market, and among Asian players.
2) Trading Murakami next TDL is not the same thing as trading him this TDL.
3) This team is on the verge of being competitive. Why should they trade Murakami?
4) A QO draft pick isn't "nothing". The extra pick they received from Seattle in the Santos trade turned into Blake Larson, and they had extra money they used to sign Bonemer and Antonacci.

I agree with almost everything here.

@caulfield12 that's when you know you're REALLY on the wrong side of things.

Pretty much every projection model still forecasts the Sox in the 71-73 win total range for 2026.

Which requires you to believe the Tigers will struggle to stay at .500 and that Cleveland will be no more than 3-5 games over .500 for the remainder of the season.

It's the end of your 1st sentence that I completely disagree with: The White Sox are realistically competing for the division and the WC right now in 2027, without bringing up any of those guys.

I can completely accept a model that has the Sox winning 71 to 73, but I think winning 83 is possible (if they stay healthy, Teel . . , blah blah), and winning 83 will get them the division.

Later on, you posted that without Skubal for 2/3 month, the Tigers are still strongly favored to win the division. I think it was 43% probability to win the division? I think that is completely ludicrous. I would be shocked if the Sox don't finish ahead of the Tigers and the Twins.

Now on trading Mune. I would guess he will be traded after this year, but now back to your comment about bringing all those guys up in 27. I think with what the Sox starting rotation is going to be next year with Smith, Schultz, Burke, Martin, Hagen and/ or whoever, the Sox will be THE TEAM to beat in the AL Central next year. It will be Vargas at 1st, Miedroth, Colson at SS, and Roch at 3rd by June at the latest. Then an outfield of Braden, Baldwin, Pereira and/ or whoever; and then with Teel catching.

With that pitching and lineup, the Sox won't need or miss Mune next year.

But any statement that the White Sox are not realistically competing now and next year for both the division (especially next year) is completely wrong.

1 minute ago, vilehoopster said:

Pretty much every projection model still forecasts the Sox in the 71-73 win total range for 2026.

Which requires you to believe the Tigers will struggle to stay at .500 and that Cleveland will be no more than 3-5 games over .500 for the remainder of the season.

It's the end of your 1st sentence that I completely disagree with: The White Sox are realistically competing for the division and the WC right now in 2027, without bringing up any of those guys.

I can completely accept a model that has the Sox winning 71 to 73, but I think winning 83 is possible (if they stay healthy, Teel . . , blah blah), and winning 83 will get them the division.

Later on, you posted that without Skubal for 2/3 month, the Tigers are still strongly favored to win the division. I think it was 43% probability to win the division? I think that is completely ludicrous. I would be shocked if the Sox don't finish ahead of the Tigers and the Twins.

Now on trading Mune. I would guess he will be traded after this year, but now back to your comment about bringing all those guys up in 27. I think with what the Sox starting rotation is going to be next year with Smith, Schultz, Burke, Martin, Hagen and/ or whoever, the Sox will be THE TEAM to beat in the AL Central next year. It will be Vargas at 1st, Miedroth, Colson at SS, and Roch at 3rd by June at the latest. Then an outfield of Braden, Baldwin, Pereira and/ or whoever; and then with Teel catching.

With that pitching and lineup, the Sox won't need or miss Mune next year.

But any statement that the White Sox are not realistically competing now and next year for both the division (especially next year) is completely wrong.

Cholowsky won't be moved to third base.

Colson would be the one to go. All the scouting reports in the world would affirm this much.

Roch goes from a plus plus SS to a bit of a ? at third base.

Expecting a position change and that he'll be in the majors basically one year later (mid summer 2027) is a big ask based on his Cape Cod numbers with wooden bats.

Maybe if he's as good as Thomas and Ventura...

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by caulfield12

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Cholowsky won't be moved to third base.

Colson would be the one to go. All the scouting reports in the world would affirm this much.

Roch goes from a plus plus SS to a bit of a ? at third base.

Expecting a position change and that he'll be in the majors basically one year later (mid summer 2027) is a big ask based on his Cape Cod numbers with wooden bats.

Maybe if he's as good as Thomas and Ventura...

I remember hearing on a few preseason podcasts that Colson graded out as one of the top defensive SS in MLB last season. I remember one saying top-5.

I don’t know about Roch’s D at SS, but it would be a good trick if he were better than Colson.

And everyone on here says Colson will move to 3rd, not Roch?

Why should Colson be the one moving? I’m sure Colson and his agent are wondering the same thing.