southsideirish Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 The main thing is, the Sox need to find out about Harris. Can he cut it or can't he? The only way to find out is to give him a consistent 200 AB's and let him play 2nd against RH and LH pitching. He had super AAA numbers so he should be afforded every opportunity this spring, and I think he'll get the chance to show his stuff. I really hope he does us proud. From watching him last spring in Tucson and with his AB's with the Sox, unfortunately, I need to be convinced (as if he cares about convincing me!! ). Same holds true for Rowand. Aaron has a little more history than Willie, but it's a giant "we'll see" for the White Sox up the middle. This is basically our season in a nut shell. How these two pan out will determine a lot about our team. We seem to be building a nice bullpen. I think we probably have the best pitching staff in the division. If these 2 guys can come through for us we should have a really nice season. I think Rowand will be good. Willie I still have my doubts with his offense, but damn if he can get on base and set the table for us we should score a lot of runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 Supposedly the clubhouse stuff is one of the reasons he was traded. JHood used to talk about it all the time and was thrilled when Ray was traded. Not that that should make much difference to anyone. I know he was traded because we were not going to resign him, but this was another reason for not wanting to sign him as well as the money issue. He wasn't the greatest at turning the double play either. The only thing I do remember him doing well was going out for pop ups to help out Frank. That is about it. Wasn't he so bad defensively that the A's used him as a DH most of the time after the trade? I don't remember him doing that well in the playoffs either. I am not saying Ray was bad for us. I liked him when he played here. I don't think he was worth the money he got and I don't think we should have resigned him if those clubhouse rumors are indeed true. can you provide a link to any article that said durham was a clubhouse problem??..all i heard was great things about him...i remember durham being reported as the go between when manuel and thomas were having difficulties in '00..manuel said durham really stepped up that year and started to take on a leadership role.. sometime acting like a leader could make you unpopular...but i honestly dont remember anyone saying anything bad about ray...if thats true it would actually shock me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 can you provide a link to any article that said durham was a clubhouse problem??..all i heard was great things about him...i remember durham being reported as the go between when manuel and thomas were having difficulties in '00..manuel said durham really stepped up that year and started to take on a leadership role.. sometime acting like a leader could make you unpopular...but i honestly dont remember anyone saying anything bad about ray...if thats true it would actually shock me... I dont have one. THat is why I said supposedly. It was hard for me to believe too. J Hood from the score kept reporting it and was thrilled when he was traded. That is the only source I have. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 Sigh. OK ... weren't you the guy whose computer broke? If so, I think you made more sense when it was broken. You stated Baldwin was offered the deal by Williams as if it was a fact. You used that statement to base your argument. Don't backpeddle. You don't think it's possible there were discussions about a contract, and those discussions were shelved due to Baldwin's ineffectiveness/breaking down, whatever you want to call it? That stuff happens all the time in baseball. It is stupid we're even discussing James Baldwin anyway. They traded him before (or as) he was breaking down, and at least got something for him. You're using the James Baldwin trade as an example of why KW is a bad GM. Baldwin has done next to nothing since that trade. You need to find a better example. You said Biddle was a better closer than Koch and I asked if you based that on one years production. Apparantly you do, since you stated Biddle had 34 saves last year and Koch 11. Then you start comparing Koch to Foulke, which has nothing to do with Biddle/Koch. If you want to state one baseball player is better than another, strictly based on one year of performance, than I suggest your perspective is a little short sighted. Baseball people look at the bigger picture. In the case of Foulke (whom I like better than Koch by the way), the bigger perspective on that trade was getting a young left handed starting prospect. Which they did in Cotts. Who knows how Cotts will turn out. Also on Foulke, you fail to mention about Foulke signing a long term deal here. Do you really, really think he would've? Seeing those numbers he got from the Red Sox? I would say the Sox felt strongly he wouldn't resign in Chicago, and traded him while they could get something for him. Not to mention Foulke was unhappy with how he was used in 2002. And Foulke was not at his best in 2002, again, looking at the season as a whole ... and not some snippet of time. They got assets for guys who weren't gonna stay here, or be here and be productive. This is the same story with trading Sirotka, Baldwin, and Foulke. What else should they do? Just hang onto these guys because they were part of the 2000 team? I told you I agreed with you that LA couldn't have been the only team to know about Baldwin's breaking down. I'm not sure why you bring it up again. I did NOT fail to bring up or address the $33 million in payroll ... can you not read? I said a lot of that money went to Wells, and a lot of guys were due raises even before KW stepped in. On the Wells trade, they gave up NOTHING to Toronto. What the Sox got in return contributed more than what was traded away. How does that make it a horrible trade, other than in your hate KW world? The Sox said they KNEW it was a gamble given Wells physical condition. Wells' 5 wins is 5 more wins than Sirotka. Buehrle credits Wells with having a big positive influence on him. Does that not count? Incidentally, on the Clayton trade ... no, I rate that as a poor trade. That's why I said KW fails the chemistry aspect of his job. I said that earlier in the thread. You said KW makes 2 bad trades for every good one, and now you're expanding that definition to "horrible or little help at all". You said the only two good trades were the Colon deal and the Marte deal, but yesterday you said you liked the Everett deal. So which is it? I would rate the Osuna deal as a good one, he helped the Sox. I would rate the Sandy Alomar to Colorado for Pacheco a good deal, Pacheco is well thought of and is in line to compete for a starter job. Same for trading Lofton to SF for Diaz and Meaux. Lofton had outlived his usefulnes here and they weren't going to resign him, i.e. same as the others, get some assets while you can. Even the Shoeneweis deal I'd rate as a positive. Glover did nothing for the Angels. Speaking of Glover, KW made that deal too, for Scott Eyre. Eyre did little for Toronto, they traded him to SF. So there are plenty of examples of small, decent deals he did. It is most definitely NOT two bad ones for every good one. By the way, if you think any other person they bring in here to replace KW will not have many of the same problems, I think you're mistaken. jim..despite the fact you think i fall in the "etter to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a fool then to open it and remove all doubt" catagory i have to say ive been enjoying sparring with you on this...you make good points in favor of KW that wernt lost on me...wouls be much easier to have this conversation in person then on these boards..so if i came off as not appreciating your opinion , sorry.. i guess we will just have to agree to disagree on both williams and reinsdorf...while im no reinsdorf flunkie..ive been pissed at him many times..i dont think under the williams regime he has been that unreasonable...he did let kw increase payroll by about 30 million his first year... ill say this for reinsdorf...in this day and age with all the talk of relocationg teams, no team ,even a orginal AL franchise is safe..atleast jerry has fixed it so the sox will be here on the southside atleast until im retirement age ...if the debartalos had won out and bought the sox , their plan was moving the sox to denver.. still i wish he would open up the purse for another 20 million ..an 80 million dollar payroll would go along way to bringing a championship here.. 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Rex Hudler Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 baggs, did you just offer to buy JimH beers at SoxFest?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 baggs, did you just offer to buy JimH beers at SoxFest?? i was hoping he would offer to buy me beers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 i was hoping he would offer to buy me beers Bickering on who picks up the tab on your first date? I don't see much of a future there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 Bickering on who picks up the tab on your first date? I don't see much of a future there. hey , im back in school again..im crying poor like KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Most of these things you are talking about mean basically nothing. Sure.... I mean, it's not like this organization was in desperate need of 2001-2003 seasons to be exciting and successful....We can easily afford embarassing failure and annual deterioration of the fanbase. Who cares about the cumulative negative impact aformentioned KW "misses" had on the team's chances in the last 3 years, right......Silly ol' me.....I should have kept my eye on the prize: Pacheco, Diaz, and Olivo. One of these days, when the payroll is 40 Mill and we are fighting for 3rd place, they could really contribute. Tentative Anthology of Kenny's f***-Ups: Ozzie, Boomer (bad luck my ass, he knew the risk and wasted 10 mill on it), Baines, Ramirez, Clayton, Parque (resurrection), Kipster, Ritchie, White, Pantygua, Koch, Rios, Daubach, Konerko contract, Durham-for-Adkins, Jimenez waiver, trying to get rid of Thomas, Ownedweiss, overpaying Buerhle, Valentin option, Barry/Berry, number of ill-advised mL call-ups...f***ing with Manuel and being responsible for the air of paranoia imbuing the clubhouse during his tenure. He is a year past the expiration date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 Tentative Anthology of Kenny's f***-Ups: Ozzie, Boomer (bad luck my ass, he knew the risk and wasted 10 mill on it), Baines, Ramirez, Clayton, Parque (resurrection), Kipster, Ritchie, White, Pantygua, Koch, Rios, Daubach, Konerko contract, Durham-for-Adkins, Jimenez waiver, trying to get rid of Thomas, Ownedweiss, overpaying Buerhle, Valentin option, Barry/Berry, number of ill-advised mL call-ups...f***ing with Manuel and being responsible for the air of paranoia imbuing the clubhouse during his tenure. He is a year past the expiration date. yeah but he did trade for marte think that evens it out??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 can you provide a link to any article that said durham was a clubhouse problem??..all i heard was great things about him...i remember durham being reported as the go between when manuel and thomas were having difficulties in '00..manuel said durham really stepped up that year and started to take on a leadership role.. sometime acting like a leader could make you unpopular...but i honestly dont remember anyone saying anything bad about ray...if thats true it would actually shock me... He'll never find one... because Ray was not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 He'll never find one... because Ray was not. Opnions are like assholes. Everybody has one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 KW is a moron, he's trying to pull our chain, over and over. I don't know if anyone brought this up, he stated that right now, the WS are over budget. If we are over budget, where were we going to get the money to resign Bartolo, after all, didn't he offer over 30 Mill to him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 KW is a moron, he's trying to pull our chain, over and over. I don't know if anyone brought this up, he stated that right now, the WS are over budget. If we are over budget, where were we going to get the money to resign Bartolo, after all, didn't he offer over 30 Mill to him? I believe he said they were going to make an exception in order to keep him. I am prety sure we would have seen more moves to follow the Bartolo signing. We wouldn't have just kept it at that. As cheap as Reinsdorf is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 KW is a moron, he's trying to pull our chain, over and over. I don't know if anyone brought this up, he stated that right now, the WS are over budget. If we are over budget, where were we going to get the money to resign Bartolo, after all, didn't he offer over 30 Mill to him? He was going to have to move a player or two to free up some budget space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Opnions are like assholes. Everybody has one. Knowing Ray and his family for over 10 years now.. I can safely say he's nothing like you described. Now.. you obviously don't know how to follow the requests of the board monitors. Keep your s*** up... I'm looking forward to your demise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Knowing Ray and his family for over 10 years now.. I can safely say he's nothing like you described. Now.. you obviously don't know how to follow the requests of the board monitors. Keep your s*** up... I'm looking forward to your demise. Opinions are like assholes everybody has one. I don't think Rays famil life ever came into question. As for the personal attack I will leave that be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I don't know if I trust him, he has been trying to move players to free up money and what has he done for us? He let Alomar go for 1M a year and Everett to Montreal for 5M over two years. He couldn't sign those two? If he did all we would need would be pitching, now we need a 2nd baseman and a centerfielder as well. How bout trading Valentine to the Yankees now that Boone is out for the year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Opinions are like assholes everybody has one. I don't think Rays famil life ever came into question. As for the personal attack I will leave that be. You described him in a negative light.. with no proof, liar. As a matter of fact.. can't find a single Hood negative quote, liar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 You described him in a negative light.. with no proof, liar. As a matter of fact.. can't find a single Hood negative quote, liar. Can't find a single Hood negative quote? Ok. He is a rdio show host. Where should I go about finding this? I described his clubhouse personality in a negative light. I never talked about him outside the clubhouse. Can you show me proof of him in a positive life in the clubhouse? Opinions are like assholes everybody has one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Can't find a single Hood negative quote? Ok. He is a rdio show host. Where should I go about finding this? I described his clubhouse personality in a negative light. I never talked about him outside the clubhouse. Can you show me proof of him in a positive life in the clubhouse? Opinions are like assholes everybody has one. Yes, liar. Positive comments about him from ALL of his teammates, liar. Hood has many quotes on players and Sox issues. Go find them to try to prove your point, liar. No one but you heard these supposed negative comments, liar. I think it's obvious who's the liar, liar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Yes, liar. Positive comments about him from ALL of his teammates, liar. Hood has many quotes on players and Sox issues. Go find them to try to prove your point, liar. No one but you heard these supposed negative comments, liar. I think it's obvious who's the liar, liar. I never called you anything here. Not a liar. Not anything. I don't have to do that. As far as Hood comments, I really don't know where to find something like that. If I did then I would. Let me see those positive clubhouse comments from Ray's teammates. That way you can prove your point. Make sure to include some links as well so I can see it. That would be wonderful if you could. Actually it would help out a lot because I loved Ray and I hope J Hood was wrong about what he said. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Geez Steff, the guy is expressing his opinion based on what he heard from a radio guy. Calling him a liar 6 times in one post is a little over the top, wouldn't you say? If you're trying to bait him, so far he's done a pretty good job in not taking the bait. What's with all the name calling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Yes, liar. Positive comments about him from ALL of his teammates, liar. Hood has many quotes on players and Sox issues. Go find them to try to prove your point, liar. No one but you heard these supposed negative comments, liar. I think it's obvious who's the liar, liar. I just emailed J Hood. Hopefully he will get back to me. I asked him to please email a reply. As soon as I get it I will post it on here. That is if I get it. I hope we can clear this whole thing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I never called you anything here. Not a liar. Not anything. I don't have to do that. As far as Hood comments, I really don't know where to find something like that. If I did then I would. Let me see those positive clubhouse comments from Ray's teammates. That way you can prove your point. Make sure to include some links as well so I can see it. That would be wonderful if you could. Actually it would help out a lot because I loved Ray and I hope J Hood was wrong about what he said. Thank you. You loved Ray... yesterday he "sucked". I have a firewall here at work so I can't get to MLB.com right now to provide you with links.. but here's the 2 likely places to find quotes from his former teammates. MLB.Com & ESPN.Com.. search his name.. go back to archived articles from July of 2002 or later. Yahoo sports also may be able to provide this information for you. Additionally.. Ray WAS loved here, and loved it here. Ray was devistated when he was traded. So much so that him and Crystal kept their townhouse for a year after he was traded in hopes that the Sox would bring him back. Ray was not the smartest guy between the lines, but he was one of the hardest workers, friendliest to fans, and always went out of his way to do things for his teammates. Ray was not a big drinker and used to be the DD on road trips and at ST. Does that sound like someone who was a problem in the clubhouse to you..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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