BrandoFan Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Still the best CF in the game this season, but no longer worth 17 Mill a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 but no longer worth 17 Mill a year. The yankee$ will say otherwise.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 The yankee$ will say otherwise.. Let them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 The yankee$ will say otherwise.. 8 years $140 million can't be wrong. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 8 years $140 million can't be wrong. :headshake It's getting to a point where people say the darnest things: 1. Beltran is a fantastic fielder 2. Beltran is the best baserunner ever 3. Beltran will hit 50 HR 4. Beltran hasn't reached his prime. 1. He is a GG'er but nothing amazing. Good speed, good arm, instincts. 2. Wait until he hits 35 HR and is put in the 3-hole....no more than 15 SB a season. 3. Doesn't have the batspeed or the eye to be a 950+ OPS hitter 4. He is 27, with 6 years of ML experience. That's prime. The guy has had a Moises Alou April...and all of the sudden he is on his way to being one of all-time greats. :headshake And to think, he used to be pretty f***ing underrated.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 1. He is a GG'er but nothing amazing. WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 WTF? My thoughts exactly. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokona Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Gold Glover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Gold Glover I know, but he said he's a gold glover but not an amazing fielder, I'm trying to figure out what that means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 I know, but he said he's a gold glover but not an amazing fielder, I'm trying to figure out what that means. Keep trying. Some day you'll get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I know, but he said he's a gold glover but not an amazing fielder, I'm trying to figure out what that means. I am still trying to figure out what this whole thread is for and why he is NO LONGER worth 17 million. He has been getting better every year and is probably the best all around ball player in the game today with ARod. 2001 G 155 AB 617 R 106 H 189 2B 32 3B 12 HR 24 RBI 101 SB 31 2002 G 162 AB 637 R 114 H 174 2B 44 3B 7 HR 29 RBI 105 SB 35 2003 G 141 AB 521 R 102 H 160 2B 14 3B 10 HR 26 RBI 100 SB 41 2004 G 40 AB 157 R 31 H 43 2B 10 3B 2 HR 11 RBI 31 SB 10 Has he had 3.25 years worth of Moises Alou April's? he is no longer worth 17 million? If he ever was then what did he do to change that? Did I miss something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I am still trying to figure out what this whole thread is for and why all of a sudden he is not worth 17 million. He has been getting better every year and is probably the best all around ball player in the game today with ARod. 2001 G 155 AB 617 R 106 H 189 2B 32 3B 12 HR 24 RBI 101 SB 31 2002 G 162 AB 637 R 114 H 174 2B 44 3B 7 HR 29 RBI 105 SB 35 2003 G 141 AB 521 R 102 H 160 2B 14 3B 10 HR 26 RBI 100 SB 41 2004 G 40 AB 157 R 31 H 43 2B 10 3B 2 HR 11 RBI 31 SB 10 Has he had 3.25 years worth of Moises Alou April's? he is no longer worth 17 million? If he ever was then what did he do to change that? Did I miss something? I'm just as confused as you. This thread is pretty pointless and like I said I'm still trying to figure out what brando means about the gg thing. Brando that makes no sense at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I'm just as confused as you. This thread is pretty pointless and like I said I'm still trying to figure out what brando means about the gg thing. Brando that makes no sense at all. I think he is trying to say that he is a gold glover however not in the same class as a Torii Hunter. However, until Hunter starts hitting like Carlos Beltran who the f*** cares? His glove is nothing to sneeze at and is not far below amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I think he is trying to say that he is a gold glover however not in the same class as a Torii Hunter. However, until he starts hitting like Carlos Beltran who the f*** cares? His glove is nothing to sneeze at and is not far below amazing. That would make sense but like you said neither of those two are as good of hitters as Beltran is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Player A: 37 143 24 33 7 0 4 12 20 33 0 0 .231 .329 .364 .693 2004 Salary: $12,357,143 Player B: 42 157 27 42 10 0 3 19 28 20 0 4 .268 .385 .389 .774 2004 Salary: $12,029,131 Player C: 37 126 20 34 7 0 9 24 24 27 0 1 .270 .406 .540 .946 2004 Salary: $12,428,571 All of these players are over 30 years old, they all have arguably worse statistics, and the saddest part is they all play for the same team. $17 mil for Beltran is not that out of the question, I think that hell get closer to $15mil, but if there is a bidding war hell get $17mil+. At lower than $13mil he is an absolute steal, at $15mil he is probably fairly priced. But how many switch hitting gold glove CFers with 30hr, 100rbi potential come around? Not many, so I will tend to think the bidding will go on the high side. No matter how great you say the KC line up is, the truth is he has no protection. Ken Harvey is their best hitter these days, Sweeney is hitting under .270. Put him in the 2hole for the Yanks in front of A-rod, hed go crazy. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 He is not worth more than 12 million a season. Any team that gives him more than that will regret it. In fact, I would be inclined to say, despite the age difference, I'd rather have Mags Ordonez than Beltran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 This thread is pretty pointless Don't like it? Then don't pollute my thread with your non-points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I think he is trying to say that he is a gold glover however not in the same class as a Torii Hunter. However, until Hunter starts hitting like Carlos Beltran who the f*** cares? His glove is nothing to sneeze at and is not far below amazing. He is not in the same class as Torii Hunter...In fact, it's not even close...Spiderman dwarfs the fielding abilities of Beltran, Andruw Jones is better than him in CF as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Plus, why are we starting a "Beltran" thread on the middle of the PHT board right after we thumped the Twins 3 out of 4...We aren't getting him and I am tired of hearing speculation that "it would be great if we got Beltran, please please KW try to get him." First off, KW isn't getting anything right now. If he pulls off a trade, it will be to fill the 5th spot and none of these names who are floating around this board with no basis for truth (ala Schmidt). Second off, Scott Bor-ass would never let Beltran come to the Sox, end of discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 The whole idea makes no sense because a players worth is whatever another team will pay for him. He may not be worth $15mil to the White Sox, he may not be worth $5mil, but he will be worth $15mil to some one. Maggs may be a Sox, so our homerism may suggest that he is better, but on the open market he will not be worth more, unless Beltran comes up with .250-.270, 30, and less than 100. If he hits over .270, over 30, and over 100, he will make more than Maggs unless Maggs, hits over .315, over 35, and over 120. The difference between being a CF and RF is going to be very apparent in how these players are paid. Guerroro was a free agent this off-season, and probably is better than Maggs. He got less money because he didnt want to sign with the Yankees, but unless Beltran has the same dislike for the East Coast, I expect the Red Sox and Yankees will get in a bidding war that will make him have to perform to warrant his paycheck. The Red Sox could easily chose to put big money into CF, and let Nomar and Damon go. The problem is that at this point you can not even come close to predicting the market, if you were able to you would be one of the most successful GMs because you would know what teams wanted the most and therefore always get maximum value in trades and never overpay for a player. But no one here has a crystal ball, although we can assume that the Yankees will put atleast $30mil into their outfield next season, so maybe they might just sign Maggs and Beltran. The truth is value is in the eye of the beholder, and to many teams Beltran will be worth whatever it takes. Thats baseball, and when you look at Sean Green's pay check you realize a big name, and the right team goes a long way to what money youll make. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 $17 mil for Beltran is not that out of the question, I think that hell get closer to $15mil, but if there is a bidding war hell get $17mil+.. Let the idiots pay 8/140 - I am glad the Sox won't be a part of this "bidding". I am content with a combination of Rowand/Reed/Anderson/Harris playing for 600K. Hint: When Beltran signs that super deal, he'll be almost 28. Guess how many 875-900 OPS sluggers averaged more than 15-20 SB a season after turning 28 in the last 5 years...... Derek Jeter, Sammy Sosa, Vlad, Andruw, A-Rod, Griffey, Canseco, Green and many others could swipe 30+ bags once upon the time......Beltran bulks up and gets homer-happy, he ain't taking that abuse on the base-paths and on the field anymore, esp as he gets to over 30yo -- every superstar saw what happened to Griffey and learned their lessons quick. 140 Million is a big-ass investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 The whole idea makes no sense because a players worth is whatever another team will pay for him You've never heard of 'intristic value'? I love it when people play devil's advovate - as in "I might not agree per se, but I can see where they're coming from....." Guess what? I couldn't give a flying f*** what Yankees consider "prudent" or "worthwhile"......I am speaking from the Sox perspective - no, from the COMMON SENSE perspective. Beltran has been underrated/underpaid for a few years now. But the pendulum is about to take a big-ass swing to the other end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Screw this thread, Beltran is better than any player we have. Make your arguments about Magglio all you want but the fact of the matter is Beltran is a better all around player. I want Beltran in a White Sox uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Well being that the White Sox still play in the MLB and there is a limited supply of Beltran's and Magglios, there worth to the Yankees does matter because of the simple principle of supply and demand. There is a very small supply of players that are even close to Beltran's abilities. There is a huge demand for players with those abilities. In a way you make no sense because as a White Sox fan, the it is pretty unreasonable for us to think we are going to get Beltran. Realistically we are going to have to overpay to originally trade for him, or we will have to overpay for him in the offseason. Either way, hes only coming to the Sox at a significant cost. So why start a thread saying how over rated he is? I dont see you starting one about how washed up Sweeney is, only seeing you say how much he protected Beltran. Get off your self righteous kick, its to apparent in your posts who you love and who you hate. You dont like Beltran, we get it. But you dont have to just disrespect a player to try and boost your own ego. Beltran is a good player, and he could become special. Right now he seems to be in a funk, maybe because his team is down hes just not getting up for games. If he dedicates himself, there are times when he can pretty much do what he wants at the plate or on the basepaths. He could be worth every cent at $17mil if hes an perennial All-Star for the Yanks or Red Sox, to say otherwise is naive. He may never reach that, but he certainly has the chance. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 Plus, why are we starting a "Beltran" thread on the middle of the PHT Because Beltran was frequently mentioned in connecton with the Sox and he plays in the same division. This isn't WSI, so I figured there was no need to be rigid and compulsively pedantic when starting a thread. There are 10 other threads discussing the Minnesota thumping. A semi-off-topic thread or two are not gonna create chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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