CSF Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Williams pining for pitching Borchard, others may be trade bait E-mail this story Printer-friendly format Search archives -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Dave van Dyck Special to the Tribune May 29, 2004, 10:39 PM CDT White Sox general manager Ken Williams is so eager to add a starting pitcher that he is willing to trade any of the franchise's top prospects, including former No. 1 draft pick Joe Borchard. In fact, during his latest talks with other GMs—and some of them were about No. 1-type pitchers—Williams rarely discussed giving up any of the present Sox. "There was very little discussion about moving major-league players, because I like the composition of this team," Williams said. "But nobody is untouchable. Nobody." While that may make potential free agent Magglio Ordonez safe for now, it also leaves Williams open for criticism in the future if one of his minor-leaguers becomes a star somewhere else. Why the risk? "Two words," Williams replied. "Nineteen seventeen." That, of course, is the last year the White Sox won a World Series. "If the question is 'Will I sacrifice a little bit of our future for present glory?' the answer is yes. But if the question is also 'Would I do something stupid?' the answer is ... maybe." While Williams got to laugh at himself, he was serious about making a trade to keep his surprising team among the American League's best. What kind of deal has Williams been discussing? While he isn't saying, it has been learned that Williams talked to Seattle about former All-Star Freddy Garcia and to Pittsburgh about Kris Benson, though not to Arizona about Randy Johnson. Insiders say the Mariners are waiting to see if Garcia can bring them more flesh closer to the trading deadline, while the Sox are the ones who are lukewarm on Benson. No deal appears imminent, but the names do show the type of pitcher Williams would like to add to his Central-leading Sox. His interest in a trade couldn't have cooled after Saturday's performance by Jon Rauch, which gave No. 5 starters an 0-7 record and 9.72 ERA. Clearly, Williams has been given the go-ahead from board Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf to take on more payroll if necessary, with one source saying the amount is large. And if Williams has proved anything as GM, it's that he is not afraid to make a deal, even if it is unpopular. "You're not doing your team or your fans a service if you're not constantly in the mode of trying to improve your club," he said. While most of his cohorts like to wait for trades until after the All-Star break or near the July 31 trading deadline, Williams says he approaches the season differently. "The conventional thought is to break the season up into two halves," he said, "but we like to think of it as a football or basketball game divided into four quarters. After the first 'quarter,' you should be able to identify to some degree what your strengths and deficiencies are. "Plus, let's say you make a move in the second quarter that doesn't work out. Then you have an opportunity before the second half begins to correct it and go another route." The first quarter is over, and the No. 5 hole in the rotation is making Williams itchy to deal, no matter what the cost. Copyright © 2004, The Chicago Tribune -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 KW is saying all the right things. The future is so unpredictable, we can't control the future, we can only live in the now. Say the Sox trade guys like Reed and Anderson or Borchard or Honel, whoever. And that trade nets them a pitcher, that pitcher helps the Sox win the series, more fans show up the next year the payroll increases the Sox start signing big time FA's and stay in contention for more world titles... Will that happen? Who knows. The Sox could keep the young guys, and Ryan Sweeney slips on some ice on an Iowa sidewalk and his career is over. Or on 2007 the Sox have some of the best young talent in the majors. Again... Who knows? Anything can happen, KW is willing to take risks, according to that article JR is willing to increase payroll for a chance to win, and I'm all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Williams Pining for Pitching The Article goes on to mention that Kenny is not actively shopping any of the current playesr although he says no one is untouchable. It sounds like he's willing to give up any prospect in the organization and he went on to say the reason is because of 1917. Sounds to me like he's pining for a deal. It also says that its believed he is looking for a #1 starter and that JR has given him a large amount of leeway financially. Who knows if this is true, but I have no doubt Kenny is going to pull the trigger soon. The question is which prospects are going where and what pitcher are the Sox getting. All I know is that I"ll s*** a brick if I see a good prospect going for Kris Benson. However, if its Ben Sheets, I'd give up a good amount including the #1 prospect in the organization Jeremy Reed if thats what it took. Sheets could help the Sox get their this year and frankly thats what matters. Plus, getting to the playoffs boostes revenue and can help put the Sox in a position where they can add to the payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 "Nineteen seventeen" Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Jason we have two threads going on this article... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 I'll merge what I posted into here BUt ya, this article got me pretty excited. I just think Kenny is going to do whatever it takes. I dont' know if it will work, but it at least gets me excited. I don't want to see the Sox sit and wait. The lack of a 5th starter (it means the Sox are going to loss 1 out of 5 before you ever step onto the field roughly) is gonna really hinder the Sox, plus it could put added stress on the bullpen. By June 12th, the SOx are going to have a new starter...book it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Just saw it...gonna merge what I posted into the other one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 KW is saying all the right things. The future is so unpredictable, we can't control the future, we can only live in the now. Say the Sox trade guys like Reed and Anderson or Borchard or Honel, whoever. And that trade nets them a pitcher, that pitcher helps the Sox win the series, more fans show up the next year the payroll increases the Sox start signing big time FA's and stay in contention for more world titles... Will that happen? Who knows. The Sox could keep the young guys, and Ryan Sweeney slips on some ice on an Iowa sidewalk and his career is over. Or on 2007 the Sox have some of the best young talent in the majors. Again... Who knows? Anything can happen, KW is willing to take risks, according to that article JR is willing to increase payroll for a chance to win, and I'm all for it. Plus if the Sox give up 3 or 4 prospects, just think of it this way....they got 4 extra draft picks compared to most ball clubs to use to go right back into rebuilding the system. Trading your prospects is just another way of utilizing your farm system, imo. The Sox have done a good job growing from within (even if they can't find a 5th starter) and using your prospects to acquire a 5th starter is similar to developing them from within. I'm guessing a package of Borchard, Rauch and a good prospect could be a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Wow, that's a pretty early date, especially if a "big name guy" is going to be acquired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Wow, that's a pretty early date, especially if a "big name guy" is going to be acquired. Well I think it was this week that Kenny mentioned he did everything he could to get a trade off before Rauch went or something along those lines. Him and Ozzie even sat together working the phones or something like that. Garcia is out their but the Mariners are probably holding out for more. Sheets could be out their, especially now that it could be possible that Kenny will give up someone of Reed's status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Well I think it was this week that Kenny mentioned he did everything he could to get a trade off before Rauch went or something along those lines. Him and Ozzie even sat together working the phones or something like that. Garcia is out their but the Mariners are probably holding out for more. Sheets could be out their, especially now that it could be possible that Kenny will give up someone of Reed's status. The Brewers have such a great farm system right now, if they could add a guy like a Reed or an Anderson or Borchard, maybe throw in a pitcher to replace Sheets, a Honel or Diaz or Munoz, maybe they'll be tempted to trade Sheets, probably not, but hey if I'm KW I give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 The Brewers have such a great farm system right now, if they could add a guy like a Reed or an Anderson or Borchard, maybe throw in a pitcher to replace Sheets, a Honel or Diaz or Munoz, maybe they'll be tempted to trade Sheets, probably not, but hey if I'm KW I give it a try. Plus the Sox could pencil in Sheets with Garland, Scho, and Buehrle for the next few years which at least gives you a little leeway if Elo goes elsewhere at the end of the season. I think the Sox know this is a big year. If they can win then they can up their payroll, continue to build back a fan base and probably get enough money to give Maggs his deal as well. The Sox will pull off their deal for a starter now and then I think late they will pick up another player (whose got an ending contract) to help for the stretch run and hopefully give the team all the weapons it needs to win it all. Speaking of the Brewers, I'm glad the Sox got Wilder in the organization. He did a great job in Milwaulkee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Well i just say it's an early date because i don't know how many major league GMs will move their big guys in early June, when by nature you can usually get more near the deadline. Also by that time there is a pretty clear line between contenders and pretenders. If you look at the NL i think going into today there were only 3 teams outside of the 20-24 loss range. Then again, money is a big factor in these things obviously, and you make an excellent point by bring up Reed. To get a deal done this early, i think you'd have to 'wow' another GM so they don't wait around until deadline time. Reed, and the fact that 'no one is untouchable,' could result in that. It will be interesting to see what happens, especially after the next 1-2 5th starter starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 It will be interesting to see what happens, especially after the next 1-2 5th starter starts. I think because of off days June 12th is the next time the 5th starter goes. But your right, it will definately be interesting and I think we all have to admit KW is unique in his approach that he wants to make a trade well before the deadline and I don't blame him. If you have a problem and have tried some solutions (although I think they could of handled them better) then you make the move to better the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 They could have handled them better, but even if Rauch was handled perfectly it doesn't apper he would have been the solution. With that i'm off to bed so i can be productive tomorrow before the game. Damn west coast and your time difference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Plus if the Sox give up 3 or 4 prospects, just think of it this way....they got 4 extra draft picks compared to most ball clubs to use to go right back into rebuilding the system. Trading your prospects is just another way of utilizing your farm system, imo. The Sox have done a good job growing from within (even if they can't find a 5th starter) and using your prospects to acquire a 5th starter is similar to developing them from within. I'm guessing a package of Borchard, Rauch and a good prospect could be a possibility. Sheets is not an option. Milwaukee may label itself in in the stages of rebuilding, but it remains clear they are only 3 games out of first place. Try having the Milwuakee GM admit his club has no chance to compete, and trading his best pitcher is ideal for their future. I'm sure everyone has learned from the infamous White Flag trade on not to give your fans the impression you're giving up, no matter how improbable a trip to the playoffs may appear. Furthermore, the notion of KW dangling top prospects (Reed, Borchard) in deals for Benson type starters is very unsettling. If he's risking the future of our organization for the present he damn well better land a #1, 1a; Freddy Garcia won't cut it. Look at the present standings and browse teams which are 10 or more games out of first: Devil Rays, Mariners, Expos. Of those three, Hernandez, Day, Ohka are the only ones which interest me. Even with a pitcher of Hernandez' caliber, is Reed/Borchard/Rauch worth the trade? From our present prospective it may be, but what you're effectively doing is setting back the progression of your OF prospects atleast 3 years. We're not the Yankees, don't have 180 million to buy our talent. If Kenny would make an aggresive move for a Livian type pitcher, what happens if Sox don't win a World Series title? All of the sudden the remaining two years of a three year, 24 million dollar contract looks like dead weight. If Maggs leaves (which many speculate he will) we lose him and NOBODY in the minors could immediately fill his position. The league knows our woes at the 5th starter position, and will attempt to take advantage of KW. I just pray he doesn't "jump the gun" and throw away our top prospects for some mediocre starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 "If the question is 'Will I sacrifice a little bit of our future for present glory?' the answer is yes. But if the question is also 'Would I do something stupid?' the answer is ... maybe." I love Kenny's attitude. But that "maybe" on if he would do something stupid makes me a little nervous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Look at the present standings and browse teams which are 10 or more games out of first: Devil Rays, Mariners, Expos. I'd also add teams like Col and Ariz. to your list. Everyone would like a #1 or a #2. But none are available yet. Livian, maybe. But his 3 yr deal doesn't interest me. Garcia has more upside, but he won't be dealt until July probably. The Sox should try to land a serviceable #5 guy until more teams drop out and may be willing to deal top of the rotation guys. With the teams you mentioned and I added, only a few may be available now. TB- Paul Abbott, Jeremi Gonzalez Col- Shawn Estes Ariz-Steve Sparks The only guy that might be decent, who has had success in the AL, is Sparks. What the Sox are talking about is acquiring a mediocre pitcher. They're willing to trade better prospects. But decent starting pitchers aren't available now, at any price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 All I know is that I"ll s*** a brick if I see a good prospect going for Kris Benson. However, if its Ben Sheets, I'd give up a good amount including the #1 prospect in the organization Jeremy Reed if thats what it took. I dont know how available Ben Sheets is. I heard it on the radio the other night just as a random name. Nowhere have I heard/read that he is available. If he is, the Brew Crew really are in tough financial times because he is wont be a free agent for a few years. THe article mentioned Randy Johnson in passing, his price tag is too steep for me unless Reiny is really willing to open the purse strings and shell out $16 mil a year for the next 2 years. THe D-back would need to swallow some fo the money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 TB- Paul Abbott, Jeremi Gonzalez Col- Shawn Estes Ariz-Steve Sparks ick, ick ick ick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 Livian, maybe. But his 3 yr deal doesn't interest me. Garcia has more upside, but he won't be dealt until July probably. I have been a Livan fan for years. I would love to see him in a SOx uni. BUt, this is the first year of a 3 year deal for him. If i am not mistaken, if a player is traded in the first year of a multi-yar deal, he can optout of the contract. COrrect me if I am wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 ick, ick ick ick Agreed. But those are some of the options available to eat innings until better players may be had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmookie Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 when the next time the fifth starter's spot comes up kenny we'll have a new pitcher. this is why they shouldve signed fartolo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 KW is saying all the right things. The future is so unpredictable, we can't control the future, we can only live in the now. Say the Sox trade guys like Reed and Anderson or Borchard or Honel, whoever. And that trade nets them a pitcher, that pitcher helps the Sox win the series, more fans show up the next year the payroll increases the Sox start signing big time FA's and stay in contention for more world titles... Will that happen? Who knows. The Sox could keep the young guys, and Ryan Sweeney slips on some ice on an Iowa sidewalk and his career is over. Or on 2007 the Sox have some of the best young talent in the majors. Again... Who knows? Anything can happen, KW is willing to take risks, according to that article JR is willing to increase payroll for a chance to win, and I'm all for it. Agreed. The price of action is always less than the price of inaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 when the next time the fifth starter's spot comes up kenny we'll have a new pitcher. this is why they shouldve signed fartolo. Never for the money Ana gave him. Based on what Bartolo has done so far, not signing him looks pretty smart, irregardless of the hole in the 5th spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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