I probably should have waited until after tonight cus Clemens might get win #320 but eh..

 

and one more stat about satchel, he pitched in a game for Kansas City at the age of 58 and threw 3 innings of 1 hit baseball

Cy young it takes some skill to win the most in history and lose the most in history.

It is so hard to compare eras in baseball. We've been blessed with many great ones the past few decades. I've always said Ryan was the best I saw. Some can argue his longevity adds to his greatness, or merely pads his stats.

I've never seen anyone better then a HEALTHY Pedro Martinez. However Clemens is very amazing and I can't speak of the other pitchers who I never saw in their prime.

 

Nolan was quite the specimen though and I did see him pitch.

I didnt know Paige only had 28 wins...

IMO, W. Johnson is the best, but Koufax had to face the toughest era to get those wins. But when Clemens is finished with his career, he will be one of the top 10 pitchers in baseball, be the top five starters in wins, strikeouts etc.. and face probably the toughest era in the history of the game (hell 2 of Barry Bonds' 10 strikeouts came from this man.)

Cy Young is a legend, but he's not even in the Top 50 of all time in winning percentage (.618). I would put these pitchers ahead of Cy:

 

Christy Mathewson

Bob Gibson

Mordecai Brown

Warren Spahn

Randy Johnson

Why aren't Prior and Wood on that list?

I've never seen anyone better then a HEALTHY Pedro Martinez.  However Clemens is very amazing and I can't speak of the other pitchers who I never saw in their prime.

 

Nolan was quite the specimen though and I did see him pitch.

Which brings up the point. What span is necessary to be the best?

 

If a player sandwiches 12 great season between 6 absolute horses*** seasons and someone else only has the 12 in the middle, is the first player

better for playing longer and racking up a few wins

same

worse for killing his era, win percentage, etc?

 

How about a player whose the greatest for 5 or 6 years, then (for example)commits a vicous rape and has his career ended by jail time?

 

How about the Ted Williams' whose careers are cut short by serving our country?

 

Career numbers are interesting.

I didnt know Paige only had 28 wins...

He did...

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/paigesa01.shtml

 

I read that in the Negro Leagues he was the most dominating pitcher anyone had ever seen and then when they started letting african americans into baseball he was 40 years old. He played for 5 seasons 1948-1953 then in 65 at the age of 58 he made a comeback with the Kansas City A's and started one game pitched 3 innings of shutout baseball giving up 1 hit, no walks with 1 strikeout.

He did...

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/paigesa01.shtml

Whoa. Thanx for posting that.

I've only seen Roger Clemens and Nolan Ryan; I'm actually lucky enough to say I saw Nolan Ryan pitch in '93. I was 7 at the time, but it's still pretty awesome. However, I have to go with Clemens. Clemens came into the league and helped the Red Sox go to the WS, and he has just been dominant in MLB for about as long as I have been alive. He's also had to pitch in an era of baseball where the umps' zones have gotten smaller and the batters have gotten bigger. Clemens is the greatest pitcher of all time.

well i dont have to worry about Clemens being 320 wins today

NOLAN RYAN was my favorite player before i saw Frank Thomas so I have to give him my vote even though all these guys have a claim

If what I hear is correct, no pitcher was ever as dominating as Koufax was in his prime. So if we are doing this based on who had the best ability to pitch, Koufax. But hell, if you base this list on what someone does when they are at their best then you would have people saying Ron Guidry or Mark Fydrich are the best of all time.

 

If the question is who had the best career, I say Young or Johnson.

 

I have always been a big Nolan Ryan fan. When I was young the name Nolan Ryan was connnected with greatest pitcher ever in my mind. As I started reading and just learning about othe pitchers I learned that Ryan was not the greatest pitcher ever, but possibly the ballsiest. Ryan didn't care about walks, he just didn't want to give up a hit, on a 3-0 or 3-1 count Ryan would fire in a curve ball. simply amazing, not to mention the fact the guy threw 100+ mph.

 

Had Ryan played on better teams he would have won 400 games IMO. But he got his ring in '69.

 

There are a lot of guys who probably deserve to be considered, but it would be impossible to make a long enough list. Pedro, Randy, and Maddux are just as dominating as Roger, their careers have just been shorter.

 

Tom Seaver is also one guy who probably deserves more credit than he gets. As does Gaylord Perry, even if he threw spitballs, it still takes a hell of a pitcher to win 300 games.

He did...

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/paigesa01.shtml

 

I read that in the Negro Leagues he was the most dominating pitcher anyone had ever seen and then when they started letting african americans into baseball he was 40 years old. He played for 5 seasons 1948-1953 then in 65 at the age of 58 he made a comeback with the Kansas City A's and started one game pitched 3 innings of shutout baseball giving up 1 hit, no walks with 1 strikeout.

more than a few historians believe he may have been 45 or 46 when he made his debute. His birth records were never found, only the recollection of the town's historian.

more than a few historians believe he may have been 45 or 46 when he made his debute. His birth records were never found, only the recollection of the town's historian.

So that would make him 63-64 when he pitched his last game

If we're talking about 1 game, Pedro Martinez at his best is the best pitcher of all time. Unlike Bob Gibson and a many others, Pedro's 1.70 ERA season came when the league average was 4.60.

 

The problem with Pedro is that he doesn't pitch on 2 day rest like Big Train, or on 3 days like Koufax. He can't pitch 300 innings a year.

 

So in order to be the best of all time you need great talent AND longevity, with playoff performance being the tie-breaker.

 

Mark Prior has a shot.

If we're talking about 1 game, Pedro Martinez at his best is the best pitcher of all time. Unlike Bob Gibson and a many others, Pedro's 1.70 ERA season came when the league average was 4.60.

Here's an excerpt from my "Fascinating Baseball Facts" book (1993 Edition).

 

In 1968, Gibson of the St. Louis Cardinals notched 13 shutouts, the most by any hurler since 1916. He also registered a 1.12 ERA, which set a new low for the game after the dead-ball era. He led the league in fewest hits per game, strikeouts, opponents batting average, and opponents on base percentage. Gibson's overwhelming stats earned him both the Cy Young and the MVP awards. Alarmed by how far the balance scale had so obviously tilted in the favor of pitchers, baseball officials shaved the regulation height of pitchers' mounds and also squeezed the size of the strike zone prior to the 1969 season.

 

I agree that it's either Bob's 1968 season, Pedro's 1.70 ERA season, or anyone of Sandy Koufax's seasons from 1963 through 1966.

 

1963: 25-5 with 20 CG, 11 Shutouts, 214 Hits Allowed in 311 IP, 306 Strikeouts, and an ERA of 1.88 (League Average: 3.02)

 

1964: 19-5 with 15 CG, 7 Shutouts, 154 Hits Allowed in 223 IP, 223 Strikeouts, and an ERA of 1.74 (League Average: 3.25)

 

1965: 26-8 with 27 CG and 8 Shutouts, 216 Hits Allowed in 336 IP, 382 Strikeouts, and an ERA of 2.04 (League Average: 3.26)

 

1966: 27-9 with 27 CG and 5 Shutouts, 241 Hits Allowed in 323 IP, 317 Strikeouts, with an ERA of 1.73 (League Average: 3.28)

 

And then he retired. He never pitched another game after going 27-9 with a 1.73 ERA. Only 31 years old. :headshake

Koufax in the lead thus far.

I vote Kerry Wood.

I vote Kerry Wood.

I know that you voted for Cy Young

Cy Young with two votes within the last few minutes....

 

Name recognition will get you far in life.