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Check out the line from a 24 year old Joe Nathan start.

 

 

PITCHING
San Francisco Giants  IP     H  HR   R  ER  BB   K

Nathan L(2-1) 2.2 9 2 12 10 4 3

 

Munoz is 21 and in that was his Major League debut.

 

I'm combing Retro Sheet looking for comparable first starts.

Wow, Arnie isn't the only one I can tell you that

  • Author

Here's a couple of meltdowns by a 29 year old David Wells.

 

 

Toronto Blue Jays     IP     H  HR   R  ER  BB   K

Wells L(3-3) 2.2 7 0 9 1 2 3

 

 

 

 

 

PITCHING
Toronto Blue Jays     IP     H  HR   R  ER  BB   K

Wells L(7-7) 4.1 11 1 13 13 4 1

Here's a couple of meltdowns by a 29 year old David Wells.

 

 

Toronto Blue Jays     IP     H  HR   R  ER  BB   K

Wells L(3-3)        2.2 7 0 9 1 2 3

 

 

 

 

 

PITCHING
Toronto Blue Jays     IP     H  HR   R  ER  BB   K

Wells L(7-7)        4.1  11 1  13  13 4 1

OMG, not one earned run...the horror. :lol:

earned or not......... that's still a bad outing

Look for a Mark Prior bad outing :lol:

  • Author
earned or not......... that's still a bad outing

He allowed 8 consecutive runners to reach base. But occurring after he had recorded the second out, those are "unearned" :rolleyes:

 

He still would have faced those guys the next inning.

So...

He allowed 8 consecutive runners to reach base.  But occurring after he had recorded the second out, those are "unearned" :rolleyes:

 

He still would have faced those guys the next inning.

I know, I was kidding.

  • Author

Jamie Moyers second start.

 

 

PITCHING
Chicago Cubs          IP     H  HR   R  ER  BB   K

Moyer L(1-1) 2.2 7 2 6 6 1 3

 

Jaime Moyer's 4th start

 

PITCHING
Chicago Cubs          IP     H  HR   R  ER  BB   K

Moyer L(1-2) 0.2 4 0 5 3 1 0

 

Jamie Moyer's 8th start

 

Chicago Cubs          IP     H  HR   R  ER  BB   K

Moyer L(3-3) 1.1 7 1 7 7 2 1

 

Interesting because Moyer has never had a dominant fastball. Munoz will never have a dominant fastball. There is a steep learning Curve. These starts were from Moyer's rookie year at 23 years old.

Where the hell do you find this information?

  • Author

Roy Halladay's 5th start.

 

 

PITCHING
Toronto Blue Jays     IP     H  HR   R  ER  BB   K

Halladay L(2-1) 2.1 9 2 11 11 3 1

 

Tom Glavine's 1st start

 

 

 

PITCHING
Atlanta Braves        IP     H  HR   R  ER  BB   K

Glavine L(0-1) 3.2 10 0 6 6 5 1

He allowed 8 consecutive runners to reach base.  But occurring after he had recorded the second out, those are "unearned" :rolleyes:

 

He still would have faced those guys the next inning.

so you agree with me, right?

But whenever we face new pitcher on other teams, they always dominate against us. Odd, isn't it?

  • Author
so you agree with me, right?

I'm not sure about what.

 

For the most part earned runs/ ERA isn't exactly the best way to judge a pitcher? Runs/RA need to be taken into account, as it's the pitchers job to prevent runs from scoring, regardless of defense?

I'm not sure about what. 

 

For the most part earned runs/ ERA isn't exactly the best way to judge a pitcher? Runs/RA need to be taken into account, as it's the pitchers job to prevent runs from scoring, regardless of defense?

Agreed........ I was saying that it is still a s***ty outing if you give up 9 runs whether they are earned or not...... Hell, the runs could all be unearned because of his own f***up in the field..... doesn't excuse the s***ty pitching lol

  • Author

Here's two consecutive starts from Andy Pettitte's rookie year.

 

 

PITCHING
New York Yankees      IP     H  HR   R  ER  BB   K

Pettitte L(6-7) 0.2 8 0 6 6 0 2

 

 

 

PITCHING
New York Yankees      IP     H  HR   R  ER  BB   K

Pettitte L(6-8) 2.2 5 1 6 6 5 1

But whenever we face new pitcher on other teams, they always dominate against us. Odd, isn't it?

My brother and I were talking about that last night. Other teams seem to feast on inexperienced pitchers, but other team's inexperienced pitchers seem to feast on us. I don't get it. :huh

Does anyone remember how Buehrle sucked basically the first whole month of 2001, then turned it around and by season's end had a 3.30 era....

Does anyone remember how Buehrle sucked basically the first whole month of 2001, then turned it around and by season's end had a 3.30 era....

Mark Buehrle's first 5 starts of 2001...

 

1-3, 5.52 ERA, 6.10 RA

 

His first real good outing came in his 5th start. In that 5th start, against Seattle, he threw 8 strong innings, allowing 2 hits, 1 walk, and 1 run. He got a no-decision in that start(as Freddy Garcia was just as good). If not for that start against Seattle, Buehrle's ERA would have been 7.04, and his RA would have been 7.83.

 

The numbers do not lie. At this point, however, it is too late to just bring up a 5th starter and put him in the rotation, because by the time he got settled in, we'd be somewhere around the ASB, or maybe even past it(I can't say exactly). A move has to be made, because we need a stable 5th starter(and I'd hope it would be Garland or Schoeneweis after we get a top 3 starter).

we all sound find a way to email arne these stats... i think it would give him something to smile about

we all sound find a way to email arne these stats... i think it would give him something to smile about

And something to motivate him more

Mark Buehrle's first 5 starts of 2001...

 

1-3, 5.52 ERA, 6.10 RA

 

His first real good outing came in his 5th start.  In that 5th start, against Seattle, he threw 8 strong innings, allowing 2 hits, 1 walk, and 1 run.  He got a no-decision in that start(as Freddy Garcia was just as good).  If not for that start against Seattle, Buehrle's ERA would have been 7.04, and his RA would have been 7.83.

 

The numbers do not lie.  At this point, however, it is too late to just bring up a 5th starter and put him in the rotation, because by the time he got settled in, we'd be somewhere around the ASB, or maybe even past it(I can't say exactly).  A move has to be made, because we need a stable 5th starter(and I'd hope it would be Garland or Schoeneweis after we get a top 3 starter).

Yeah Buehrle started horrible, he started to get it along, but he did not do as bad as Munoz first start :ph34r:

Yeah Buehrle started horrible, he started to get it along, but he did not do as bad as Munoz first start  :ph34r:

And your point is?

And your point is?

He has none. He just posts bulls*** to keep his post count up.. :rolleyes:

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