Sox philosophy

[fathom]

There's been a lot of talk lately about how Ozzie wants the Sox to become a defensive, pitching, and speed team in the future. Am I the only one that doesn't think that this is a very good approach playing at the bandbox that is U.S. Cellular? First, getting these types of players will take a lot of personnel moves in the offseason, which will be hard to do on a team with about 5 or 6 big contracts. Teams like the Rockies and Brewers tried to change their philosophies from power to speed, and it didnt work out very well since they both play in great hitting parks also. If Ozzie gets these types of players, it will mean more bunting and reliance on starting pitching. Since the previous Sox teams have been such a contrast to Ozzie's wishes, you really have to wonder why KW hired Ozzie when he had this current Sox roster.

Now, I know people will look at the Angels team, and say that's how we should model ourselves after. However, their payroll is a lot higher than ours will ever be, and they caught lighting in a bottle the year they won the WS with K-Rod coming up like he did. I just don't think that playing in a offensive ballpark means that you need to alter the roster in order to make it more competitive in road games, etc., where you don't hit as many homers. If the Sox want consistency, then they need it from the top of the organization all the way down. No more tinkering with the lineup on a regular basis, and keep to the organizational plans. A good example of not keeping to this plan is acquiring Carl Everett, who is about the complete opposite of the type of player that Ozzie wants on his team.

[Palehosefan]

It would be a good plan if and only if they move the fences back at the Cell. Otherwise other teams will take advantage of it with power and it will take away home field advantage for us. I can understand building a team full of speed to play in Detroits stadium, but with these current conditions it wouldn't be too smart in my opinion.

[3E8]

I just want them to become a pitching team. That would be a dream come true.

[Palehosefan]

I just want them to become a pitching team. That would be a dream come true.

 

Moving the fences back would definitely help with that too. Not only our current pitchers, but with free agent pitchers. Not many would want to pitch at the Cell right now. Its almost like signing with Colorado.

[BobDylan]

Moving the fences back would definitely help with that too. Not only our current pitchers, but with free agent pitchers. Not many would want to pitch at the Cell right now. Its almost like signing with Colorado.

Yea, but at least a curveball curves here.

[3E8]

Moving the fences back would definitely help with that too. Not only our current pitchers, but with free agent pitchers. Not many would want to pitch at the Cell right now. Its almost like signing with Colorado.

I don't care if they move the fences IN, I just want a dominant staff. The opposing team has to pitch here too. Just make our starter better than theirs.

[YASNY]

I don't think they are planning on abondoning the power game completely. You cannot do that and succeed in the AL. However, they need to be a more balanced team. There is certainly a need for more speed and defense, even at the sacrifice of some power.

[fathom]

One of the main reasons that I started this thread is cause the whole Konerko/Gload issue is very disturbing. If the Sox do choose to trade Konerko, they need to make sure that they replace him with someone that they can rely on. There have been too many times in the past few years that the Sox "thought" that a player might succeed at the mlb level, and it backfired on them. I think Gload is a very good bench player, and should be kept as a bench player. There are so many holes on the Sox, and they cant turn the 1b position, which is a strength of their team, into another question mark because they want to play Ozzieball.

[YASNY]

One of the main reasons that I started this thread is cause the whole Konerko/Gload issue is very disturbing.  If the Sox do choose to trade Konerko, they need to make sure that they replace him with someone that they can rely on.  There have been too many times in the past few years that the Sox "thought" that a player might succeed at the mlb level, and it backfired on them.  I think Gload is a very good bench player, and should be kept as a bench player.  There are so many holes on the Sox, and they cant turn the 1b position, which is a strength of their team, into another question mark because they want to play Ozzieball.

They can if, by trading Konerko, they eliminate one or two other question marks, or deficiencies, with the probabilty the Gload will have some success, based on what they have seen of him.

[jackie hayes]

Has the Sox defense been bad this year? I know a lot of people believe Valentin to be a poor fielder -- which I don't agree with -- and Crede has had some hiccups, but where else do we have a big problem?

 

I hope speed doesn't take precedence over obp, our biggest area of need.

[southsider2k5]

There's been a lot of talk lately about how Ozzie wants the Sox to become a defensive, pitching, and speed team in the future.  Am I the only one that doesn't think that this is a very good approach playing at the bandbox that is U.S. Cellular?  First, getting these types of players will take a lot of personnel moves in the offseason, which will be hard to do on a team with about 5 or 6 big contracts.  Teams like the Rockies and Brewers tried to change their philosophies from power to speed, and it didnt work out very well since they both play in great hitting parks also.  If Ozzie gets these types of players, it will mean more bunting and reliance on starting pitching.  Since the previous Sox teams have been such a contrast to Ozzie's wishes, you really have to wonder why KW hired Ozzie when he had this current Sox roster. 

Now, I know people will look at the Angels team, and say that's how we should model ourselves after.  However, their payroll is a lot higher than ours will ever be, and they caught lighting in a bottle the year they won the WS with K-Rod coming up like he did.  I just don't think that playing in a offensive ballpark means that you need to alter the roster in order to make it more competitive in road games, etc., where you don't hit as many homers.  If the Sox want consistency, then they need it from the top of the organization all the way down.  No more tinkering with the lineup on a regular basis, and keep to the organizational plans.  A good example of not keeping to this plan is acquiring Carl Everett, who is about the complete opposite of the type of player that Ozzie wants on his team.

I think if we have the type of pitching staff that KW has hinted at, it won't matter where the fences are here.

[SoIL]

I don't think they are planning on abondoning the power game completely.  You cannot do that and succeed in the AL.  However, they need to be a more balanced team.  There is certainly a need for more speed and defense, even at the sacrifice of some power.

I think this is exactly right. The '93 & '94 Sox teams had a nice balance of LH, RH, speed, defense and power. Some excellent pitching as well. Right now we are too power oriented. As others have stated, if trading Konerko can make us more balanced, I have no problem with Gload at first base.

[WilliamTell]

Paul has been good to the Sox but if there's a trade that'll help this team even a bit, I'm all for it.

[whitesox61382]

I agree with Ozzie's philosophy. They do play in a small stadium, since the fences were moved in a couple of years ago, but this team needs to find more "complete" players instead of these "one-dimensional" power hitters. My REALISTIC suggestions for next year, in regards to personal, would be as followed.

 

Trade Konerko(1B) and Garland(SP) to Atlanta for Furcal(SS) and a pitching prospect

 

I can't take credit for this idea since it was mentioned in a previous thread, but I think this trade has some potential. I have a feeling that the Sox are going to move either Konerko or Lee, especially if they want to get some quality talent that matches their philosophy. Atlanta does this trade because they need power at 1B, and because they will probably need some cheap starters since Ortiz and Wright are FA's. The Sox do this because Furcal is the high BA/OBP speedster that they need at the top of the order. Throw in a major league ready starting pitching prospect and you have yourself a pretty fair deal. The Sox would also save a little dough in this deal as well.

 

Trade Crede(3B) to Seattle for Winn(CF)

 

In another thread, I suggested a possible trade for Ichiro, and while that idea might be a little far fetched I think this could be a possibility. Seattle is in the process of rebuilding, and one position that they don't have any quality major league ready prospects/youngsters is 3B. Seattle has shown interest in Crede before, and it seems like a good fit for a team that is rebuilding. Winn gives the Sox another high BA/OBP speedster at the top of the order.

 

Sign Koskie(3B)

 

I think there is a pretty decent chance that Crede could be traded this offseason, and that the Sox could sign Koskie as a short-term solution. Koskie is a very solid complete player that does everything well and could sign for a reasonable price.

 

2005 Lineup

1 Furcal ss

2 Winn cf

3 Thomas dh

4 Lee lf

5 Koskie 3b

6 Rowand rf

7 Gload 1b

8 Uribe 2b

9 Davis c

 

I think this would be an improvement offensively. Furcal has never hit below .275 in a single season, has a career OBP of .350, has stolen at least 20+ bags in every season(including 49 in 55 attempts the last 2 seasons combined), and he even has a little pop(on pace for his 2nd straight 15+ HR season). Winn is the model of consistancy even in a pitchers park like Safeco. For the 3rd straight year, he is on pace to hit, at least .280+, hit at least 10+ HR, 30+ 2B, and 75+ RBI, post an OBP of at least .345+, an OPS of at least .770+, and steal 20+ bags. Despite a subpar season from a BA standpoint, Koskie still has a career BA of .280, has hit at least 14 HR the last 4 seasons(and is usually good for 30+ 2B), has averaged about 70 walks the last 5 years(including this years projected total), is on pace for his 4th straight double digit SB season, and he has never posted an OPS below .815 in a full season. These are the type of complete players that the Sox need to add, even if it is at the expense of a little power. This would also be an above average defensive team as well. I would love to see the following lineup next year, and I don't think it is too unrealistic.

[BobDylan]

2005 Lineup

1 Furcal ss

2 Winn cf

3 Thomas dh

4 Lee lf

5 Koskie 3b

6 Rowand rf

7 Gload 1b

8 Uribe 2b

9 Davis c

I like the line-up you present except for Randy Winn. I'd be more willing to give Harris the job in CF or RF over Randy Winn. Granted, I really like Willie. Does anyone think Harris could become a legitimate outfielder if the Sox were to land Furcal?

[Yossarian]

It would be a good plan if and only if they move the fences back at the Cell. Otherwise other teams will take advantage of it with power and it will take away home field advantage for us. I can understand building a team full of speed to play in Detroits stadium, but with these current conditions it wouldn't be too smart in my opinion.

I think you're absolutely right. If the Sox want to change philosophy and stress pitching and defense they have boxed themselves in with the shortened fences. Move 'em back already!

[soxman352000]

I just want them to become a pitching team.  That would be a dream come true.

with you 100%

[witesoxfan]

I like the line-up you present except for Randy Winn. I'd be more willing to give Harris the job in CF or RF over Randy Winn.  Granted, I really like Willie. Does anyone think Harris could become a legitimate outfielder if the Sox were to land Furcal?

I like Willie, but he is not a leadoff caliber hitter yet, and he seems to be the kind of guy that will not produce until he relaxes. Becoming the leadoff hitter on a playoff contender has just a little bit of pressure.

 

What I would like to see happen is to see Willie be in the everyday lineup next year batting 8th or 9th most of the time.

 

61382, I do like that lineup though, though I would ask for more then just Winn for Crede.

[YASNY]

61382, I do like that lineup though, though I would ask for more then just Winn for Crede.

 

 

No doubt. And more than Furcal and a prospect for PK and JG. :rolly

[whitesox61382]

witesoxfan, I think you overestimate Crede's trade value. Sure he is still realitively young at 26 and has a chance to improve, but the demand for a .230 hitter, with no plate disipline, and terrible speed isn't that great. Furthermore, Winn is a pretty solid player. Which stats would you rather have on your team?

 

.285/13/69 50 BB 86 SO 20 SB .783 OPS

or

.237/17/60 30 BB 77 SO 1 SB .699 OPS

 

You honestly think that the Sox should get something else in return? I think this is a classic case of you overestimating the value of a Sox player. The way that I see it, if I was given a choice between Winn or Crede, than I would take Winn.

 

Yasny, I think you overestimate Konerko and Garland's trade value. I think Konerko and Furcal's trade value is about the same. The saying goes that it is harder to find a quality leadoff hitter than it is to find a quality cleanup hitter. Furcal is more of a complete player, so once again, if I was given a choice between Furcal or Konerko, than I would take Furcal by a very slight margin. I was considering saying Cruz instead of a pitching prospect, but at this point, Cruz has more trade value. Garland doesn't have much trade value after regressing this year. How many more years are the Sox going to have to wait for him to develop? He has been in the majors for 5 years and shown no improvement, so getting a good major league ready pitching prospect is probably all the Sox will get for Garland. Not to mention the fact that the Sox would probably save about 5M in this deal. To think that the Sox would get much more than that is a clear case of you overrating the Sox players. You have to look at things from both perspectives.

 

None the less, I would love to see the Sox with my projected lineup. Sure they sacrifice a little power(although 7 of the players have at least 13 HR at this point in the season), but the BA, OBP, speed, and defense of the team would be improved. This is what I think the Sox philosophy is and should be. A team of more complete players.

[YASNY]

I don't think I overestimate any of their trade values. Just saying.

[beck72]

If the Sox want consistency, then they need it from the top of the organization all the way down.  No more tinkering with the lineup on a regular basis, and keep to the organizational plans.  A good example of not keeping to this plan is acquiring Carl Everett, who is about the complete opposite of the type of player that Ozzie wants on his team.

I agree, the entire organization needs to be on the same page. For instance, the Sox minor league system needs to be filled with Ozzie type players. Yet the sox have a lot of pitching "projects" who throw hard but are wild [The sox need more B-Macs who can throw strikes] and the Joe B types. the last few drafts have changed things a little to get more rounded players though.

 

I disagree on Everett. When healthy and in shape, Carl could play a decent LF or RF. His bat, attititude and game is the type that fits on an Ozzie team [makes consistent contact and to all fields, has some power, moves runners over, versatile]. Kind of like Jeff Conine on the Marlins. He was key for them down the stretch in 2003. the sox will still need some vets around when it's crunch time.