Which Teams Want PK?

[Flash Tizzle]

this is true they can keep him then trade him in July when they are in third place, or keep him then lose him to free agency next year like Maggs. I realize this may sound tongue and cheek, but if they do keep him they better upgrade significantly to contend. otherwise its third place.

I wish I had created a poll which asked, "If the White Sox made no significant moves this offseason, do you still believe they'll compete for the division?" I still could, but I'm lazy and would rather pose it here. Not questioning your post specifically quickman, but merely anticipating an offseason similar to last years. Members who were screaming for changes two months ago will transform into Williams' apologists come Spring. It happened last year, and from browsing through this thread it appears the metamorphosis of mediocrity is taking place. NOTE: Some advance quicker than others.

 

September 2004: Paul Konerko absolutely has to go! This team is a stationary, slow-footed offense incapable of manufacturing runs.

 

November 2004: Paul Konerko should be traded, but only if Williams finds equal talent in return.

 

February 2005: I don't know why everyone is complaining about Konerko. A player who just hit 40 HRs and 100 RBI's is valuable to any organization. You can't expect to win many games without a run producer in the lineup. (And of course, the usual "winning by default argument) Look at Minnesota's lineup! Williams was smart to not sign any FA's-or initiate any significant trades. He had assembled all his pieces last year and felt Shawn Chacon was the pitcher who could turn this team into a champion.

 

Just to speed up the process; YES, I've heard all the cliches: this postseason is still early, KW is waiting to see how the market shakes out, let's not start complaining until the winter meetings. Am I missing any? If I had the power I would prevent these phrases from ever being uttered within this message board. I'd rather be the annoying person who points out every inactive moment of Williams then luring myself into false hope.

[jackie hayes]

I wish I had created a poll which asked, "If the White Sox made no significant moves this offseason, do you still believe they'll compete for the division?" I still could, but I'm lazy and would rather pose it here. Not questioning your post specifically quickman, but merely anticipating an offseason similar to last years.  Members who were screaming for changes two months ago will transform into Williams' apologists come Spring.  It happened last year, and from browsing through this thread it appears the metamorphasis of mediocrity is taking place.  NOTE: Some advance quicker than others.

 

September 2004:  Paul Konerko absolutely has to go! This team is a stationary, slow-footed offense incapable of manufacturing runs.

 

November 2004:  Paul Konerko should be traded, but only if Williams finds equal talent in return. 

 

February 2005:  I don't know why everyone is complaining about Konerko.  A player who just hit 40 HRs and 100 RBI's is valuable to any organization.  You can't expect to win many games without a run producer in the lineup. (And of course, the usual "winning by default argument) Look at Minnesota's lineup! Williams was smart to not sign any FA's-or initiate any significant trades. He had assembled all his pieces last year and felt Shawn Chacon was the pitcher who could turn this team into a champion.

 

Just to speed up the process; YES, I've heard all the cliches: this postseason is still early, KW is waiting to see how the market shakes out, let's not start complaining until the winter meetings. Am I missing any?  If I had the power I would prevent these phrases from ever being uttered within this message board.  I'd rather be the annoying person who points out every inactive moment of Williams then luring myself into false hope.

Who said those things you are paraphrasing in Sep and Nov? People have different opinions on this, whatever the general tenor of one discussion at one point in time. I've actually gone much the other way -- I used to be adamantly opposed to trading PK, but lately I've thought that it could work out for the best.

[quickman]

I wish I had created a poll which asked, "If the White Sox made no significant moves this offseason, do you still believe they'll compete for the division?" I still could, but I'm lazy and would rather pose it here. Not questioning your post specifically quickman, but merely anticipating an offseason similar to last years.  Members who were screaming for changes two months ago will transform into Williams' apologists come Spring.  It happened last year, and from browsing through this thread it appears the metamorphasis of mediocrity is taking place.  NOTE: Some advance quicker than others.

 

September 2004:  Paul Konerko absolutely has to go! This team is a stationary, slow-footed offense incapable of manufacturing runs.

 

November 2004:  Paul Konerko should be traded, but only if Williams finds equal talent in return. 

 

February 2005:  I don't know why everyone is complaining about Konerko.  A player who just hit 40 HRs and 100 RBI's is valuable to any organization.  You can't expect to win many games without a run producer in the lineup. (And of course, the usual "winning by default argument) Look at Minnesota's lineup! Williams was smart to not sign any FA's-or initiate any significant trades. He had assembled all his pieces last year and felt Shawn Chacon was the pitcher who could turn this team into a champion.

 

Just to speed up the process; YES, I've heard all the cliches: this postseason is still early, KW is waiting to see how the market shakes out, let's not start complaining until the winter meetings. Am I missing any?  If I had the power I would prevent these phrases from ever being uttered within this message board.  I'd rather be the annoying person who points out every inactive moment of Williams then luring myself into false hope.

I love this post, its well versed and thought out. i will contend as I have throughout last year that konerko should be traded. i never ever liked him, ever. For those that personally know me they can vouch for that. As it stands today, if no changes were made I believe we are a third place team. Does that mean contending... I suppose it might, but its still third place. Second place is not good enough for me. Going into a season especially with Whitesox fans and casual fans I believe that the sox need to have a stronger team to both draw fans and draw enthusiasm. kenny Williams still has not won. I like him and his agressive style but he has not won. This team is stuck in the middle. What I mean by that is beause of there payroll and some contractual obligations they cannot rebuild and they cannot push over the top. They are in the middle. The middle to me is like answering a question with a "maybe". That doesn't draw fans nor does it create any great enthusiasm. So there are two things that can be done to change things.

 

1) Blow it up and start over. This is what Cleveland did. You would bite the bullet for two years and really ahve to build your minors. they won't do this, because of the pitching changes made last year. They boxed themselves into a corner. Now they are stuck.

 

2) Have an 80-82 million dollar payroll. I think this would put them over the top at least in this division. They are stuck there too, because JR and the boys don't like to go in the negative, even for the short term. You never know they might surprise and do it. (I hope so)

 

So here we are stuck in the middle which is right where we will be in July. the middle of the division. this from a die hard sox fan and season ticket holder.

[witesoxfan]

I wish I had created a poll which asked, "If the White Sox made no significant moves this offseason, do you still believe they'll compete for the division?" I still could, but I'm lazy and would rather pose it here. Not questioning your post specifically quickman, but merely anticipating an offseason similar to last years.  Members who were screaming for changes two months ago will transform into Williams' apologists come Spring.  It happened last year, and from browsing through this thread it appears the metamorphasis of mediocrity is taking place.  NOTE: Some advance quicker than others.

 

September 2004:  Paul Konerko absolutely has to go! This team is a stationary, slow-footed offense incapable of manufacturing runs.

 

November 2004:  Paul Konerko should be traded, but only if Williams finds equal talent in return. 

 

February 2005:  I don't know why everyone is complaining about Konerko.  A player who just hit 40 HRs and 100 RBI's is valuable to any organization.  You can't expect to win many games without a run producer in the lineup. (And of course, the usual "winning by default argument) Look at Minnesota's lineup! Williams was smart to not sign any FA's-or initiate any significant trades. He had assembled all his pieces last year and felt Shawn Chacon was the pitcher who could turn this team into a champion.

 

Just to speed up the process; YES, I've heard all the cliches: this postseason is still early, KW is waiting to see how the market shakes out, let's not start complaining until the winter meetings. Am I missing any?  If I had the power I would prevent these phrases from ever being uttered within this message board.  I'd rather be the annoying person who points out every inactive moment of Williams then luring myself into false hope.

I have felt what you have for November all along. I would just also add that I agree completely with quickman and that is that Konerko's value is not nearly as high as some here would like to believe.

 

He hit .310 29 70 1.050 at home. He hit .240 12 47 .700 on the road.

 

I think teams will pick up on that right away. I also think they won't overpay for a guy like Konerko.

 

What I see as equal talent in return many will see as less talent. I hope KW feels the same way I do rather then the way the latter feels, because if he does not, we will have Paul Konerko on the South Side of Chicago next year.

 

Whether that's a good or bad thing is disputable.

[witesoxfan]

I love this post, its well versed and thought out. i will contend as I have throughout last year that konerko should be traded. i never ever liked him, ever. For those that personally know me they can vouch for that. As it stands today, if no changes were made I believe we are a third place team. Does that mean contending... I suppose it might, but its still third place. Second place is not good enough for me. Going into a season especially with Whitesox fans and casual fans I believe that the sox need to have a stronger team to both draw fans and draw enthusiasm. kenny Williams still has not won. I like him and his agressive style but he has not won. This team is stuck in the middle. What I mean by that is beause of there payroll and some contractual obligations they cannot rebuild and they cannot push over the top. They are in the middle. The middle to me is like answering a question with a "maybe". That doesn't draw fans nor does it create any great enthusiasm. So there are two things that can be done to change things.

 

1) Blow it up and start over. This is what Cleveland did. You would bite the bullet for two years and really ahve to build your minors. they won't do this, because of the pitching changes made last year. They boxed themselves into a corner. Now they are stuck.

 

2) Have an 80-82 million dollar payroll. I think this would put them over the top at least in this division. They are stuck there too, because JR and the boys don't like to go in the negative, even for the short term. You never know they might surprise and do it. (I hope so)

 

So here we are stuck in the middle which is right where we will be in July. the middle of the division. this from a die hard sox fan and season ticket holder.

I think they are trying #2 to a lesser extent this year, and if it fails, they will turn to #1 with a new GM and maybe even a new manager.

[SkokieSox]

I think they are trying #2 to a lesser extent this year, and if it fails, they will turn to #1 with a new GM and maybe even a new manager.

Possibly a new GM, but I doubt Ozzie would be cut loose. He actually probably would be better with a young team that he can mold into his image.

[CanOfCorn]

I wish I had created a poll which asked, "If the White Sox made no significant moves this offseason, do you still believe they'll compete for the division?" I still could, but I'm lazy and would rather pose it here. Not questioning your post specifically quickman, but merely anticipating an offseason similar to last years.  Members who were screaming for changes two months ago will transform into Williams' apologists come Spring.  It happened last year, and from browsing through this thread it appears the metamorphasis of mediocrity is taking place.  NOTE: Some advance quicker than others.

 

September 2004:  Paul Konerko absolutely has to go! This team is a stationary, slow-footed offense incapable of manufacturing runs.

 

November 2004:  Paul Konerko should be traded, but only if Williams finds equal talent in return. 

 

February 2005:  I don't know why everyone is complaining about Konerko.  A player who just hit 40 HRs and 100 RBI's is valuable to any organization.  You can't expect to win many games without a run producer in the lineup. (And of course, the usual "winning by default argument) Look at Minnesota's lineup! Williams was smart to not sign any FA's-or initiate any significant trades. He had assembled all his pieces last year and felt Shawn Chacon was the pitcher who could turn this team into a champion.

 

Just to speed up the process; YES, I've heard all the cliches: this postseason is still early, KW is waiting to see how the market shakes out, let's not start complaining until the winter meetings. Am I missing any?  If I had the power I would prevent these phrases from ever being uttered within this message board.  I'd rather be the annoying person who points out every inactive moment of Williams then luring myself into false hope.

I reserve the right to change my mind at anytime!!!

[quickman]

I think they are trying #2 to a lesser extent this year, and if it fails, they will turn to #1 with a new GM and maybe even a new manager.

I guess you fell right into my point. you cannot do it to a lesser extent with the core group we have. that is why they will not win this year without spending the money.

[witesoxfan]

I guess you fell right into my point. you cannot do it to a lesser extent with the core group we have. that is why they will not win this year without spending the money.

I understand what you are saying. In fact, I completely agree with it. I look at our team sometimes and cringe when I think of the possibilities...but I also look at our team and realize that with just a couple moves we could be serious contenders.

 

I guess I figure right along with you that if they spend $75-77 mill wisely, why not add another $5 mill and spend $80-82 mill wisely.

[aboz56]

Personally I'd like to keep PK and get him signed to an extension.

 

However, you've gotta believe that is not going to happen.

 

If PK is still with us by Soxfest, it'll be time to turn the heat on KW about a PK contract.

[santo=dorf]

To those saying Washington; I remember reading something that said Washington wants to move Wilkerson to first base.

 

I don't think Washington is an option. IMO, only LA, Arizona, and both New York teams would have an interest in PK.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I wish I had created a poll which asked, "If the White Sox made no significant moves this offseason, do you still believe they'll compete for the division?" I still could, but I'm lazy and would rather pose it here. Not questioning your post specifically quickman, but merely anticipating an offseason similar to last years.  Members who were screaming for changes two months ago will transform into Williams' apologists come Spring.  It happened last year, and from browsing through this thread it appears the metamorphosis of mediocrity is taking place.  NOTE: Some advance quicker than others.

 

September 2004:  Paul Konerko absolutely has to go! This team is a stationary, slow-footed offense incapable of manufacturing runs.

 

November 2004:  Paul Konerko should be traded, but only if Williams finds equal talent in return. 

 

February 2005:  I don't know why everyone is complaining about Konerko.  A player who just hit 40 HRs and 100 RBI's is valuable to any organization.  You can't expect to win many games without a run producer in the lineup. (And of course, the usual "winning by default argument) Look at Minnesota's lineup! Williams was smart to not sign any FA's-or initiate any significant trades. He had assembled all his pieces last year and felt Shawn Chacon was the pitcher who could turn this team into a champion.

 

Just to speed up the process; YES, I've heard all the cliches: this postseason is still early, KW is waiting to see how the market shakes out, let's not start complaining until the winter meetings. Am I missing any?  If I had the power I would prevent these phrases from ever being uttered within this message board.  I'd rather be the annoying person who points out every inactive moment of Williams then luring myself into false hope.

September 2003: Konerko had a terrible season. He's a headcase. He's slow. He gets in extended slumps.

 

November 2003: Sox are looking to move the inconsistent Konerko for pitching help.

 

December 2003: Deals for Konerko left on the table. Niether team feels they are getting enough in return.

 

January 2004: Deal still on table.

 

February 2004: Deal finally pulled from table. "we have faith in Konerko, He will bounce back."

 

April-September 2004: Arguably the sox most valuable player. Unarguably their most consistent player.

[Guest JimH]

Ok, if it's Sexson to Baltimore then it's Delgado to the Mariners.

 

What does that leave folks ... Arizona.

[qwerty]

I think we would need a little more than Piniero and Winn.  A B+ prospect perhaps.  I hear they have this kid Jeremy Reed.

No chance in hell they get that much for an 8 million dollar first basemen that has one year left on his contract and cannot hit on the road to save his life.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I could see the Mets being interested in Konerko. They want a first-baseman. I'm not sure how we match up outside of the Kazuo Matsui matchup I came up with a few weeks ago. They won't deal a starting pitcher for him in my opinion.

[qwerty]

I could see the Mets being interested in Konerko. They want a first-baseman. I'm not sure how we match up outside of the Kazuo Matsui matchup I came up with a few weeks ago. They won't deal a starting pitcher for him in my opinion.

I would not want any of there starting pitchers anyway. Also who would step in at short stop for them?

[Guest JimH]

I could see the Mets being interested in Konerko. They want a first-baseman. I'm not sure how we match up outside of the Kazuo Matsui matchup I came up with a few weeks ago. They won't deal a starting pitcher for him in my opinion.

Interesting point on the Mets. It's possible. I know Minaya wants Piazza to catch vs. playing 1B.

 

Minaya and KW have a good relationship ... hmmm.

[DBAHO]

Ok, if it's Sexson to Baltimore then it's Delgado to the Mariners.

 

What does that leave folks ... Arizona.

Pieces from Arizona that could possibly be included in a deal,

Jose Valverde

Scott Hairston

Alex Cintron

Chad Tracey

Shea Hillenbrand

You get my drift.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Interesting point on the Mets.  It's possible.  I know Minaya wants Piazza to catch vs. playing 1B.

 

Minaya and KW have a good relationship ... hmmm.

I've had that same idea in the back of my head for a few weeks now... I still don't know how I feel about it though...

[DBAHO]

No chance in hell they get that much for an 8 million dollar first basemen that has one year left on his contract and cannot hit on the road to save his life.

It's Bill Bavasi we're talkin bout here. He COULD actually be worse than KW, wow, never thought I'd say that bout any other GM before.

[Guest JimH]

I've had that same idea in the back of my head for a few weeks now... I still don't know how I feel about it though...

Victor Zambrano - JimH pipedream - Victor Zambrano

[DBAHO]

Interesting point on the Mets.  It's possible.  I know Minaya wants Piazza to catch vs. playing 1B.

 

Minaya and KW have a good relationship ... hmmm.

Who would the Mets give up though, Reyes and Wright are untouchable, they gave up Kazmir for Victor Zambrano last off-season (Fred Wilpon written all over it), and they're hardly stocked with talent as it is. Unless it was a 3 way, possibly with Anaheim and the Angels getting Piazza maybe.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

They want to move Jose Reyes back to SS this year and Kaz over to 2nd. Kaz I think will have a MUCH better year this year, kind of relative to the increase Hideki had. He'd be an outstanding fit over here and the Mets are down on him. My gut tells me that the Mets will give it a go with him this year but nobody ever really knows what the Mets might do. He'd be able to hit 1st or 2nd here which is why I want him.

[jackie hayes]

They want to move Jose Reyes back to SS this year and Kaz over to 2nd. Kaz I think will have a MUCH better year this year, kind of relative to the increase Hideki had. He'd be an outstanding fit over here and the Mets are down on him. My gut tells me that the Mets will give it a go with him this year but nobody ever really knows what the Mets might do. He'd be able to hit 1st or 2nd here which is why I want him.

He looked terrible, just awful, defensively.

[Guest JimH]

Who would the Mets give up though, Reyes and Wright are untouchable, they gave up Kazmir for Victor Zambrano last off-season (Fred Wilpon written all over it), and they're hardly stocked with talent as it is. Unless it was a 3 way, possibly with Anaheim and the Angels getting Piazza maybe.

Tough to say.

 

A guy like Eric Valent is someone the Sox might covet, and here is a name that would not totally shock me ... Tom Glavine.

 

Before I get flamed, I'm not saying I'm for it but the Mets would like to get out from under that contract and the White Sox want veteran pitchers. All I'm saying is there may be more "fits" with teams than we think ... whether it's the Mets, Arizona, etc.

 

So many of these moves are contract driven these days and what might not make perfect sense from strictly a player personnel standpoint may make perfect sense for financial reasons.

 

I realize this is "way out there" but somehow, some way, I think there will be a few way out there moves in baseball this winter ... beyond just the obvious ones we fans think and talk about.