Instead we should judge by Cotts' 9.0 IP in the season over almost 100 innings of data?  Good lord...

Here's what I love, everyone that you dislike on this team are the guys who had their first years starting in the major leagues, all were pretty darn good in the minors, had a bad 1st year, now are doing good and you refuse to acknowledge it. Ever heard of development?

Instead we should judge by Cotts' 9.0 IP in the season over almost 100 innings of data?  Good lord...

 

Oh really? Now, who would do that?

 

Last two years of Kevin Walker at AAA -- @ Fresno in 2004, he put up a 4.26 ERA in 69.2 IP, and a 4.08 in 46.1 IP at Portland in '03. That's over 100 innings, hotshot.

 

Yeah, he had two decent seasons, but since then, he's been garbage. And, it's not like he's been getting better, like, say, coming off an injury, regaining your groove, etc.

 

He was good in '01-'02. No one is denying that. But, until he shows something at Charlotte, he's nothing more than the 10th-11th reliever on a competing ballclub.

 

EDIT: I'm done with you. If you were the GM, Pablo Ozuna would be our starting thirdbaseman, Timo Perez would be our starting RF'er hitting third, and guys like Uribe/Rowand would never had made it. Luckily, you're not.

 

G'Night, fellas, I think we know we're all dealing with someone who blamed the game in Oakland singlehandedly on Willie Harris.

Edited May 9, 200520 yr by CWSGuy406

Instead we should judge by Cotts' 9.0 IP in the season over almost 100 innings of data?  Good lord...

Let's see here, 66.2 of those "almost" 100 innings pitched (which is 95 BTW for all of you playing at home), was in the 00 season. That's almost 5 years ago.

 

Since then, Walker has pitched 12 innings in 01, 8 innings in 02 (5.63 ERA), 6.2 innings in 03 (5.40 ERA), and 1.2 innings in 04 with the Giants (16.20 ERA).

 

You don't JUST look at innings pitched as the end all with pitchers. You look at what they've done, what status (youngster, reaching arbitration process etc.) they currently are, and whether or not they are going to IMPROVE on their past numbers.

Here's what I love, everyone that you dislike on this team are the guys who had their first years starting in the major leagues, all were pretty darn good in the minors, had a bad 1st year, now are doing good and you refuse to acknowledge it.  Ever heard of development?

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Cotts was awful in 2003 (albeit, in very limited IP) and bad in 2004 (in a full season of IP).

 

Why does everyone here feel the need to defend every single one of our players. Do you guys really think that every player on our roster is good? $75 million payroll teams don't have a great player at every position. Almost every team has its mediocre players.

Let's see here, 66.2 of those "almost" 100 innings pitched (which is 95 BTW for all of you playing at home), was in the 00 season. That's almost 5 years ago.

 

Since then, Walker has pitched 12 innings in 01, 8 innings in 02 (5.63 ERA), 6.2 innings in 03 (5.40 ERA), and 1.2 innings in 04 with the Giants (16.20 ERA).

 

You don't JUST look at innings pitched as the end all with pitchers. You look at what they've done, what status (youngster, reaching arbitration process etc.) they currently are, and whether or not they are going to IMPROVE on their past numbers.

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If Walker pitches to his past potential and Cotts pitches to his current potential, Walker is the better reliever. The stats back my statement.

Cotts was awful in 2003 (albeit, in very limited IP) and bad in 2004 (in a full season of IP).

 

Why does everyone here feel the need to defend every single one of our players.  Do you guys really think that every player on our roster is good?  $75 million payroll teams don't have a great player at every position.  Almost every team has its mediocre players.

So I guess that automatically means he's going to "suck" it up again this season. Last season Cotts and Adkins were given bullpen spots because there wasn't really any viable alternatives at the start of last year.

 

One important start with Cotts. He gave up 13 HR's in 56 appearnaces last season. From 9 so far, he's given up 0. But I guess since he walks a guy, he's just not better than average.

Cotts was awful in 2003 (albeit, in very limited IP) and bad in 2004 (in a full season of IP).

 

Why does everyone here feel the need to defend every single one of our players.  Do you guys really think that every player on our roster is good?  $75 million payroll teams don't have a great player at every position.  Almost every team has its mediocre players.

Cotts got thrown to the wolves in 03 so that shouldn't even count. Once again last year was his first full season in the major leagues, he has a very good track record in the minor leagues and you give up on him after 1 year. Some players take longer to develop, what don't you understand?? You give up on players after 1 year, Rowand is on another club, think the rockies are happy they gave up on juan? Maybe we should have traded Garland, maybe the Tigers should have let Bonderman go. Just watch Neal pitch, the hitters can't pick him up at all, that alone should be enough to keep him around, Neal's a very good pitcher and he's going to keep getting better.

So I guess that automatically means he's going to "suck" it up again this season. Last season Cotts and Adkins were given bullpen spots because there wasn't really any viable alternatives at the start of last year.

 

One important start with Cotts. He gave up 13 HR's in 56 appearnaces last season. From 9 so far, he's given up 0. But I guess since he walks a guy, he's just not better than average.

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Not giving up homers is great but issuing leadoff walks is still bad.

If Walker pitches to his past potential and Cotts pitches to his current potential, Walker is the better reliever.  The stats back my statement.

And what are the chances of Walker pitching to his past potential, compared to Neal's FUTURE potential. Can someone compare Cotts's "stuff" to Walker's as well, just for a comparison.

Not giving up homers is great but issuing leadoff walks is still bad.

So Damaso Marte would be bad too. He has the most BB's out of all of our relievers so far this season.

And what are the chances of Walker pitching to his past potential, compared to Neal's FUTURE potential. Can someone compare Cotts's "stuff" to Walker's as well, just for a comparison.

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Cotts has a no-control, average fastball and a good, no-control changeup.

So Damaso Marte would be bad too. He has the most BB's out of all of our relievers so far this season.

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He has been shaky as hell this season. I think you could admit that.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if Cotts will ever come around. I really had high expectations for him, but he needs to develop another good pitch.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if Cotts will ever come around. I really had high expectations for him, but he needs to develop another good pitch.

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Agreed, right now he's a 2 pitch pitcher with very little control.

Jabroni, do you like to argue just to hear yourself talk?

Jabroni, do you like to argue just to hear yourself talk?

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I'm not arguing at all. I am disagreeing with and refuting other people's statements.

Cotts has a no-control, average fastball and a good, no-control changeup.

Eeeep. I'm sorry that is incorrect.

 

Curve

Velocity: AVERAGE

Movement: AVERAGE

Notes: Curve Breaks Across And Down

Slider

Velocity: AVERAGE

Movement: AVERAGE - PLUS

Notes: Fairly Quick Break

Two Seam

Velocity: AVERAGE

Movement: PLUS

Notes: 88-91 Fastball Has Tail

Change Up

Rating: PLUS

Movement: PLUS

Notes: Good Deception; Changeup Has Tail

 

Angle of delivery: 3/4

Rigid Delivery; Has Deception

Agreed, right now he's a 2 pitch pitcher with very little control.

I honestly wonder the percentage of his walks that have come to the first batter he's faced. He seems to get behind the first batter, then after that his control is perfectly fine. Some stat wizzard has to help me out with this one but Neal's control really isn't awful.

And what's the rating on his control?

He has been shaky as hell this season.  I think you could admit that.

Worse than last season would you say?

 

2-2, 2.03 ERA, 10.13K/9, .191 BAA.

Cotts had a great couple of innings the other day when we needed him to stop the Jays rallies.

 

I don't think he's that bad, sheesh.

And what's the rating on his control?

How ironic;

 

Control: AVERAGE

Locates Fairly Well But Makes Mistakes Up In The Strike Zone

I honestly wonder the percentage of his walks that have come to the first batter he's faced.  He seems to get behind the first batter, then after that his control is perfectly fine.  Some stat wizzard has to help me out with this one but Neal's control really isn't awful.

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A leadoff walk is one of the worst kinds of walks to issue because the offense then has 3 outs to knock that runner in.

A leadoff walk is one of the worst kinds of walks to issue because the offense then has 3 outs to knock that runner in.

Thanks for that, captain obvious.

 

I was sure they got 4 outs.

Worse than last season would you say?

 

2-2, 2.03 ERA, 10.13K/9, .191 BAA.

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What does Marte's numbers from last season have to do with his numbers this season? You asked me what I thought of Marte's pitching THIS season. He has been shaky THIS season. I don't even need to look at his stats to tell that. Thankfully, he hasn't given up many runs.

Edited May 9, 200520 yr by Jabroni