Swap Adkins for a hitter

[VAfan]

Bringing up Adkins and going with 12 pitchers was a big mistake. Next thing we knew, Everett pulled up lame. Now Pods is lame. And Adkins gives up 2 big runs tonight in a game that could have made Boston sweat anyway.

 

We can't afford to go with only 12 healthy fielders. Personally, I would have kept Gload and let him play. Everett can play left field, and Iguchi/Rowand can hit 1-2.

 

The Sox don't need to worry about overworking their pitchers as much as keeping a lineup healthy. Vizcaino can use more work. It makes him sharper. And Jenks is a full member out there.

 

I would send Adkins down and have Gload back tomorrow, even if it is a 1 pm game.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

The problem isnt Adkins over a hitter, its Adkins over other pitchers.

 

 

And, isnt Everett fine now?

[elrockinMT]

You can't have 12 pitchers and then use that 12th guy once every two weeks and expect him to be sharp. Adkins did good for an inning or so and got that DP grounder with the sacks full, but lost it the next inning. I am just as dissapointed in our 2 aces not pitching for squat.

[quickman]

Bringing up Adkins and going with 12 pitchers was a big mistake.  Next thing we knew, Everett pulled up lame.  Now Pods is lame.  And Adkins gives up 2 big runs tonight in a game that could have made Boston sweat anyway.

 

We can't afford to go with only 12 healthy fielders.  Personally, I would have kept Gload and let him play.  Everett can play left field, and Iguchi/Rowand can hit 1-2. 

 

The Sox don't need to worry about overworking their pitchers as much as keeping a lineup healthy.  Vizcaino can use more work.  It makes him sharper.  And Jenks is a full member out there. 

 

I would send Adkins down and have Gload back tomorrow, even if it is a 1 pm game.

 

 

adkins pitched in a game that appeared and was out of reach. He gave some rest for our other ineffective relievers. I really don't understand this post at this time. Ozzie decided on 12 pitchers. Just go pick another down there that can go 2-3 innings if needed. Thats why he is here. Rosters will expand in two weeks you will have all the hitters you want.

[quickman]

You can't have 12 pitchers and then use that 12th guy once every two weeks and expect him to be sharp. Adkins did good for an inning or so and got that DP grounder with the sacks full, but lost it the next inning. I am just as dissapointed in our 2 aces not pitching for squat.

 

 

nicely put I agree.

[VAfan]

My point about Adkins not being sharp is secondary. Most of the year we've played with 11 pitchers. Now when we bring up 12 pitchers, one of our position players has been hurt practically every day. We've had to use a utility player, first to sub for Everett, and now to sub for Podsednik.

 

Gload, instead of Timo or Ozuna tonight, could have played every day Adkins has been here and actually helped us in every game. He's tearing up AAA because he's getting regular at bats. Bring him up and start him. Put Pods on the DL.

[Kogs35]

theres a double header on the 30th at texas. who is starting that game? most likely adkinds. why else would they carry 12 pitchers?

[gosox41]

Bringing up Adkins and going with 12 pitchers was a big mistake.  Next thing we knew, Everett pulled up lame.  Now Pods is lame.  And Adkins gives up 2 big runs tonight in a game that could have made Boston sweat anyway.

 

We can't afford to go with only 12 healthy fielders.  Personally, I would have kept Gload and let him play.  Everett can play left field, and Iguchi/Rowand can hit 1-2. 

 

The Sox don't need to worry about overworking their pitchers as much as keeping a lineup healthy.  Vizcaino can use more work.  It makes him sharper.  And Jenks is a full member out there. 

 

I would send Adkins down and have Gload back tomorrow, even if it is a 1 pm game.

 

 

I agree with you about getting Gload up here. The Sox were awfully quick to send him down.

 

 

What bugs me is that when the Sox decided they needed a 12th pitcher, why was Adkins the first guy off the list?

 

 

Bob

[Guest JimH]

My point about Adkins not being sharp is secondary.  Most of the year we've played with 11 pitchers.  Now when we bring up 12 pitchers, one of our position players has been hurt practically every day.  We've had to use a utility player, first to sub for Everett, and now to sub for Podsednik. 

 

Gload, instead of Timo or Ozuna tonight, could have played every day Adkins has been here and actually helped us in every game.  He's tearing up AAA because he's getting regular at bats.  Bring him up and start him.  Put Pods on the DL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You bring up this exact same point every other day.

 

Let me try to put it succinctly for you, maybe it will sink in.

 

THERE ARE 12 PITCHERS HERE TO KEEP ALL THE ARMS FRESH.

 

THE TEAM IS BUILT AROUND PITCHING.

 

IT IS MORE IMPORTANT TO KEEP THE ARMS FRESH THAN GET ROSS GLOAD 5 AT BATS PER WEEK.

 

God damn man, Ross Gload is a marginal reserve player for a reason. If he were that good, don't you think other teams would've scooped him up long ago?

 

Give it a freakin' rest. Every other day it's the same stuff from you.

Edited August 14, 2005 by JimH

[Guest JimH]

What bugs me is that when the Sox decided they needed a 12th pitcher, why was Adkins the first guy off the list?

Bob

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because, Bob, he's the only guy with a rubber arm capable of going 3-4 innings if needed.

 

It really is that simple.

[quickman]

You bring up this exact same point every other day.

 

Let me try to put it succinctly for you, maybe it will sink in.

 

THERE ARE 12 PITCHERS HERE TO KEEP ALL THE ARMS FRESH. 

 

THE TEAM IS BUILT AROUND PITCHING.

 

IT IS MORE IMPORTANT TO KEEP THE ARMS FRESH THAN GET ROSS GLOAD 5 AT BATS PER WEEK.

 

God damn man, Ross Gload is a marginal reserve player for a reason.  If he were that good, don't you think other teams would've scooped him up long ago?

 

Give it a freakin' rest.  Every other day it's the same stuff from you.

 

 

it gets to you doesn't it. This is good training for me, I have two kids under ten.

[Guest JimH]

it gets to you doesn't it. This is good training for me, I have two kids under ten.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I plan on getting a new puppy soon, I guess there are some similarities, yes?

[DBAHO]

I plan on getting a new puppy soon, I guess there are some similarities, yes?

Just get one that doesn't bark.

[southsider2k5]

The arguements over the 25th man are humorous. No matter if this guys is a pitcher or hitter, he isn't going to play enough to make a major contribution to this team. If it is Ross Gload he might get a start a week, if he is lucky. If it is a pitcher, he is going to go 10 day stretches without pitching. This is the 25th man on the roster we are talking about, and there is a reason they are the 25th man... their contribution will be marginal at best, at worst they are an insurance policy, and after looking at the amount of games that the pen is getting into, Oz and Kenny feel that protecting the arms is more important right now.

[VAfan]

You bring up this exact same point every other day.

 

Let me try to put it succinctly for you, maybe it will sink in.

 

THERE ARE 12 PITCHERS HERE TO KEEP ALL THE ARMS FRESH. 

 

THE TEAM IS BUILT AROUND PITCHING.

 

IT IS MORE IMPORTANT TO KEEP THE ARMS FRESH THAN GET ROSS GLOAD 5 AT BATS PER WEEK.

 

God damn man, Ross Gload is a marginal reserve player for a reason.  If he were that good, don't you think other teams would've scooped him up long ago?

 

Give it a freakin' rest.  Every other day it's the same stuff from you.

 

 

Adkins has had two appearances for a total of how 3.2 innings since August 1st, when he came up. In that time, Carl Everett missed 5 games in a row (he pinch hit in the 5th game), and now Podsednik is about to go on the DL. Ross Gload could have played every one of those games.

 

Instead, we've had 8 games of Timo Perez since July 31, 6 as a starter, in which he had a total of 3 hits in 22 ABs (until today, which was washed out).

 

Now they are talking about bringing up Willie Harris to play LF. It is insane. Gload hit .320 last year in his 200+ ABs. There is no Sox player close to that number. Give the guy a chance. If they want to bring up Harris too, and send Adkins down (with Gload taking Pods slot), then fine. I'm not averse to having a pinch runner in a close game.

 

But pay attention to who is of value. An everyday replacement player or a pitcher who has pitched less than 4 innings in 2 weeks?

 

Moreover, Ross Gload could actually have value in the postseason as the first lefty pinch hitter if they would cultivate him. Jon Adkins has no chance of making the postseason roster.

 

The only reason I can think of that this isn't happening is that Gload is in Ozzie's doghouse. Does anyone know why???????

[Guest JimH]

Adkins has had two appearances for a total of how 3.2 innings since August 1st, when he came up.  In that time, Carl Everett missed 5 games in a row (he pinch hit in the 5th game), and now Podsednik is about to go on the DL.  Ross Gload could have played every one of those games.

 

Instead, we've had 8 games of Timo Perez since July 31, 6 as a starter, in which he had a total of 3 hits in 22 ABs (until today, which was washed out). 

 

Now they are talking about bringing up Willie Harris to play LF.  It is insane.  Gload hit .320 last year in his 200+ ABs.  There is no Sox player close to that number.  Give the guy a chance.  If they want to bring up Harris too, and send Adkins down (with Gload taking Pods slot), then fine.  I'm not averse to having a pinch runner in a close game. 

 

But pay attention to who is of value.  An everyday replacement player or a pitcher who has pitched less than 4 innings in 2 weeks? 

 

Moreover, Ross Gload could actually have value in the postseason as the first lefty pinch hitter if they would cultivate him.  Jon Adkins has no chance of making the postseason roster. 

 

The only reason I can think of that this isn't happening is that Gload is in Ozzie's doghouse.  Does anyone know why???????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Are you listening? Is anyone home?

 

It has everything, repeat everything to do with having flexibility in the pitching staff. You never know when a starter will get blown out. It is more valuable to have an extra arm, especially when the team is built around pitching and you want to keep your arms fresh for when it matters.

 

It doesn't matter ONE BIT that Adkins has only been in a couple of games. Not ONE BIT. When he warms up, other guys don't have to. Do you understand what it does to a bullpen if God forbid El Duque or Contreras have a short outing and someone has to pick up the slack for 3-4 innings? It taxes the bullpen big time.

 

What is it about this that you don't understand?

 

Are you going to post the same thing again, for the 10th time, two days from now?

 

There is no conspiracy theory. Gload is NOT in Ozzie's doghouse. Remember it was Ozzie who gave Gload the chance last year to begin with.

 

Can you please comprehend that it's a matter of wanting 12 pitchers on the staff for the time being?

 

Good lord.

[VAfan]

Are you listening?  Is anyone home?

 

It has everything, repeat everything to do with having flexibility in the pitching staff.  You never know when a starter will get blown out.  It is more valuable to have an extra arm, especially when the team is built around pitching and you want to keep your arms fresh for when it matters.

 

It doesn't matter ONE BIT that Adkins has only been in a couple of games.  Not ONE BIT.  When he warms up, other guys don't have to.  Do you understand what it does to a bullpen if God forbid El Duque or Contreras have a short outing and someone has to pick up the slack for 3-4 innings?  It taxes the bullpen big time.

 

What is it about this that you don't understand?

 

Are you going to post the same thing again, for the 10th time, two days from now?

 

There is no conspiracy theory.  Gload is NOT in Ozzie's doghouse.  Remember it was Ozzie who gave Gload the chance last year to begin with.

 

Can you please comprehend that it's a matter of wanting 12 pitchers on the staff for the time being?

 

Good lord.

 

Do you still feel the same way after tonight? In the 16th inning, Adkins is finally brought in and promptly gives up 5 runs as the crowning touch on our first 4 game losing streak of the season. And you can't say he was unused, because he'd just pitched in Boston and given up runs.

[tpezz27]

I really don't believe Ozzie likes Gload either. He would rather play his boyfriend Timo more, so having Gload on the team would take away some of his at bats. By the way when Gload was up here, Ozzie never gave him a real chance to play anyway. His overuse of Timo lately is completely mind boggling. Why didn't Gload get to play this many days in a row and have a real hitter in the lineup especially when this team obviously needs some extra hitting help right now!

 

As for Adkins up being the twelfth pitcher, If Ozzie knew what he was doing with the bullpen this wouldn't be needed. Several times he has used three and four pitchers an inning all facing one batter each. You saw this in the opening series of the season against Cleveland he had no idea what he was doing. He left Vizcaino out to dry. And this wasn't because we needed an extra pitcher, it was because he doesn't know how to use the ones we have!

[YASNY]

Bulls***! Ozzie doesn't know how to use a bullpen my ass. He was whipped and rode this pen to the best record in baseball. He is managing the bullpen for the long haul and if things didn't work tonight, they didn't work out.

[IlliniKrush]

Bottom line is that he played the matchups right to get through the 8th and 9th. You don't usually plan for extra innings, let alone 16, when you are leading a game.

 

Your last pitcher out of the pen enters in the 16th. Oh f***ing well at that point.

 

You can blast ozzie for mismanaging bullpens all you want, but to do it for this game is just ignorant, period.

[YASNY]

Bottom line is that he played the matchups right to get through the 8th and 9th. You don't usually plan for extra innings, let alone 16, when you are leading a game.

 

Your last pitcher out of the pen enters in the 16th. Oh f***ing well at that point.

 

You can blast ozzie for mismanaging bullpens all you want, but to do it for this game is just ignorant, period.

 

What happened tonight was his nearly perfect closer gave up a dinger and blew a save. The hitters didn't hit for 7 opportunities to walk off with a win by scoring a run. Mismanaged bullpen was not the problem.

[beck72]

Carrying 12 pitchers is more important than having Ross Gload here. the sox want to keep guys like Cotts, Politte and Hermanson fresh for the playoffs.

[southsider2k5]

Do you still feel the same way after tonight?  In the 16th inning, Adkins is finally brought in and promptly gives up 5 runs as the crowning touch on our first 4 game losing streak of the season.  And you can't say he was unused, because he'd just pitched in Boston and given up runs.

 

Guys if you want to understand what Ozzie is doing in these games, you have to think in the big picture. We are taught in the Sportscenter world of today to think in terms of one game, one inning, one pitch. In reality one season is all that matters. Do we have enough wins to make the post-season, and how has Ozzie readied these guys to win in October? In October, Ozzie isn't going to look back at August 16th and get pissed at Jon Adkins, he is going to remember how guys responded in what specific situation, and if that situation comes up again, he is going to know who to use then, and who not to.

 

I feel more strongly after a game like tonight to be honest. In reality we probably should have gone to Adkins earlier in order to save the pen.

 

And once again to go back to my original point in this thread, which you ignored, we are talking about the 25th man on the roster. No matter who it is, they are going to have a very, very limited role on this team as an insurance policy for either the defensive side, or as the last pitcher out of the pen. With the amount of appearences that the pen has racked up, Ozzie feels that he is best served by having that insurance out of the pen. Granted I don't agree with the person called up, but I do agree with the concept of the extra pitcher, based on how this season has gone.

 

And finally, realize if Jon Adkins isn't on this team, most likely a starting pitcher goes out to the mound at some point last night, and we aren't talking about Jon Adkins, we are scrambling to see who will start what game after throwing off up the starting rotation. So not only could we have lost last night, but either someone would be starting on short rest, or we would be screwing around with the roster to get a pitcher up here for a spot start on short notice.

 

To say a hitter is more valuable to this team after last night, is extremely short-sighted, especially with the long term problems that not having an extra pitcher could have caused. Think bigger than just one loss.

[Guest JimH]

Do you still feel the same way after tonight?  In the 16th inning, Adkins is finally brought in and promptly gives up 5 runs as the crowning touch on our first 4 game losing streak of the season.  And you can't say he was unused, because he'd just pitched in Boston and given up runs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes. I don't flip flop after one appearance. As I said but you apparantly can't figure out, it's not about Adkins. It's about having 12 pitchers until 9/1 when you can bring up a hitter. Every team out there has losing streaks, this is the White Sox first 4 gamer.

 

Where were you right after I posted my response 2-3 days ago? Do you lurk in the closet waiting for a guy to fail so you can come around and say I told you so?

 

Here is a better idea ... go back to the main White Sox board, you can start all the threads you want over there. And, you fit in better there.

[fathom]

I completely understand why the Sox want a long reliever, as it's a great way to save the bullpen in case of a blow out, etc. The problem is that Adkins just isn't a good pitcher. Ozzie did a fine job managing the bullpen tonight, and I agree he should have pulled Jenks after 2 innings.