Which player would you take from just an offensive viewpoint? I just couldn't help but notice how people were talking about Bellhorn's OBP despite his terrible BA.

Which player would you take from just an offensive viewpoint?  I just couldn't help but notice how people were talking about Bellhorn's OBP despite his terrible BA.

 

Player B. Sometimes, you need the person to actually get a hit to score a run.

Player B i would take a hit over a walk anyday, plus if there is a guy at third and they walk him no hamr but a hit brings in the run

I need SLG

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 29, 2005 -> 11:24 PM)

I need SLG

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Player A: .360

Player B: .474

 

BUt they aren't built the same, and SLG% tends to favor the guy who doesn't walk. A single counts towards slugging whereas a walk doesn't.

 

Based on OPS, player B is a no-brainer.

Player A: .360

Player B: .474

 

BUt they aren't built the same, and SLG% tends to favor the guy who doesn't walk.  A single counts towards slugging whereas a walk doesn't.

 

Based on OPS, player B is a no-brainer.

 

Well, yeah. That's a pretty easy choice...

 

BTW -- I hope my Mark Bellhorn defending didn't account to me rather having Bellhorn then Walker. I'd take Mark Bellhorn version 2004, but I don't think he'll ever do that well again, so I'll take Walker.

Player A: .360

Player B: .474

 

BUt they aren't built the same, and SLG% tends to favor the guy who doesn't walk.  A single counts towards slugging whereas a walk doesn't.

 

Based on OPS, player B is a no-brainer.

Yeah, a single counts towards slugging, but it's mirrored in BA. -- [sLG (minus) AVG] eliminates singles, and tells you how often a player hits for extra bases. --

 

ISO

Player A -- .144

Player B -- .181

 

Oh, and I choose Player B.

Player B. It's a no brainer.

 

Mark Bellhorn has been absolutely terrible this year offensively as has been explained on numerous occassions in the last week. That doesn't mean he can't help the White Sox.

 

It must be pointed out once again, and even if this White Sox team isn't an "on-base percentage" team (whatever that means), Mark Bellhorn and his .216 batting average has been more productive offensively this season than all but three White Sox players.

 

Take it for what you will, but when you can add somebody who immediately comes in and has the fourth best on-base percentage on a team with one of the best records in baseball for zilch, I think you make that move.

 

Of course, this argument should be non-existant considering Bellhorn signed with the Yankees, and the White Sox are left with very few options in which any shot in the playoffs would be a near impossibility.

...and I know this thread is moreso directed at me and my beliefs, but I just want to note that if this argument is truly on-base percentage vs batting average. I, and anyone sane should value on-base percentage over batting average.

 

Edit: keyword being sane

Edited August 30, 200520 yr by redandwhite

Just curious, does anyone know who player B is. I remember having a conversation with qwerty earlier in the offseason about a player have virtually no difference between their OBP and BA.

 

I wonder what the smallest difference is for a .300 hitter who plays the entire season.

Just curious, does anyone know who player B is.  I remember having a conversation with qwerty earlier in the offseason about a player have virtually no difference between their OBP and BA.

 

I wonder what the smallest difference is for a .300 hitter who plays the entire season.

 

Candy LaChance had a .303 BA in 1901 with a .314 OBP(548 ABs, 555 PA's)

Shawon Dunston had a .300 BA in 1997 with a .312 OBP(490 ABs, 498 PA's)

 

Those are the closest I have found so far

I'm baffled at this poll. 298 batting average or not, Player B would have never made it to my team.

im indifferent to the situation, but i guess ive always like the higher avg

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Aug 30, 2005 -> 04:09 PM)

I'm baffled at this poll.  298 batting average or not, Player B would have never made it to my team.

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Not a fan of Ivan Rodriguez?

I meant to click B and I clicked A. Oops

I'm baffled at this poll.  298 batting average or not, Player B would have never made it to my team.

why because of .027 points higher in OBP?? please its not like he blows player A out of the water. player B does blow the other player out of the water in slugging. in regards of total bases, the player with the higher average and lower obp almost certainly makes up for the extra walks drawn based purely on the number of doubles and homers he hits, as evidenced by the sluggin percentage. when taking slugging percentage into account, its would hard, even for stat heads like your beloved bill james to pick player A over B

For that small a difference in OBP, I'd much rather have the guy with the higher average. If it were something like .245 batting average with .365 OBP compared with .290 and .325, that might be a more interesting argument.

I am surprised more didn't pick the guy with the higher obp. I thought average would be easier to bring up wheras if you don't walk, you don;'t walk. Pudge's bizarre six walk season has been uderreported. very odd.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 31, 2005 -> 11:57 PM)

Not a fan of Ivan Rodriguez?

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Well I scrolled over the OPS figures you later posted so without question player B should be getting the votes but I agree with Zoom.

You can't just look at AVG and OBP alone. Slugging HAS to be in there, too...

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 1, 2005 -> 12:38 AM)

You can't just look at AVG and OBP alone.  Slugging HAS to be in there, too...

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So when you were always talking about Bellhorn's OBP, why didn't you mention his .360 SLG? (less than Uribe's)

well you have to score runs to win (obviously), and it's rare you score a run by taking a walk. so player B.

QUOTE(AirScott @ Sep 1, 2005 -> 10:13 PM)

well you have to score runs to win (obviously), and it's rare you score a run by taking a walk.  so player B.

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That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

So when you were always talking about Bellhorn's OBP, why didn't you mention his .360 SLG? (less than Uribe's)

 

I don't think I've ever made a push for Bellhorn to start. I would have liked to see him in a role against LHP. He's been bad this season, no doubt, but over his career he's slugged .478 against lefties.

 

And, as a bench player, his .324 OBP in what has so far been a down year would still rank second on the Sox bench.

well you have to score runs to win (obviously), and it's rare you score a run by taking a walk.  so player B.

Yeah, this statement's a bit out there. There is a reason why the phrase "The dreaded leadoff walk" exists.

 

It's rare you Drive in a run by taking a walk. It's not rare that you score a run by taking a walk.