RockRaines Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:29 PM) i have seen enough of johnny damon in centerfield to know who i'd rather want manning the position at fenway, and that person is coco crisp. i'm not doing any such thing, by the way, but continue putting words in my mouth. its what i expect of you. Well, would it be ok for us to compare their numbers defensively in CF to see who is better? Or are we just going on your gut feeling as proof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:26 PM) Ummm now you are changing the argument to offense? I thought we were talking about defensive ability? And defensively, PODS and Crisp are about as similar as it gets statistically. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> you were the one who assumed that i was referring to defensive ability, and this isn't an argument. coco crisp is a top of the line centerfielder, no ifs ands or buts about it. period. end of story. capiche? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) i have seen enough of johnny damon in centerfield to know who i'd rather want manning the position at fenway, and that person is coco crisp. i'm not doing any such thing, by the way, but continue putting words in my mouth. its what i expect of you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And I'm sure you've seen enough of Coco Crisp playing CF, right? I doubt it and here's my proof... You mentioned that you are sick and tired of seeing players run on Johnny Damon's arm but you seem to think that Coco Crisp's arm will be a major improvement. If you saw Coco Crisp playing defense, you would know that his arm sucks. Hilarious. If you didn't know that Crisp has a sucky arm, how the hell are we supposed to believe that you know that Crisp plays good defense in CF? Edited January 25, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:31 PM) you were the one who assumed that i was referring to defensive ability, and this isn't an argument. coco crisp is a top of the line centerfielder, no ifs ands or buts about it. period. end of story. capiche? Well I thought I proved he wasnt when I listed his defensive stats and he wasnt really top ten in the AL in CF. Or when we compared their offensive numbers he wasnt top three in the AL. But I guess you are the law above and beyond what happens during actual play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:30 PM) Well, would it be ok for us to compare their numbers defensively in CF to see who is better? Or are we just going on your gut feeling as proof? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> you can do whatever you would like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 09:21 AM) defensive ability in centerfield: crisp>damon please, pal, enough. I guess this is what made me think that you meant defensive ability. Or when you used translated stats to say he is top of the line. using translated stats usually means comparing positions. But I should have just assumed you meant whatever point is easier to make for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:31 PM) And I'm sure you've seen enough of Coco Crisp playing CF, right? I doubt it and here's my proof... You mentioned that you are sick and tired of seeing players run on Johnny Damon's arm but you seem to think that Coco Crisp's arm will be a major improvement. If you saw Coco Crisp playing defense, you would know that his arm sucks. Hilarious. If you didn't know that Crisp has a sucky arm, how the hell are we supposed to believe that you know that Crisp plays good defense in CF? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yes, i said coco crisps arm would be a major improvement blasphemy - stop putting words in my mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I guess this is what made me think that you meant defensive ability. Or when you used translated stats to say he is top of the line. using translated stats usually means comparing positions. But I should have just assumed you meant whatever point is easier to make for you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He has lost any credibility in this argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:36 PM) yes, i said coco crisps arm would be a major improvement blasphemy - stop putting words in my mouth. It truly wouldn't be a major improvement over damons arm. Crisp's arm is always regarded as weak... piss poor... below average. I think crisp would do just fine in center however. Edited January 25, 2006 by q\/\/3r+y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) yes, i said coco crisps arm would be a major improvement blasphemy - stop putting words in my mouth. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What in the f***balls is this quote by you supposed to infer then? where did i say he was the best defensive outfielder in baseball? that was jeremy reed. i did however say that crisp was head and shoulders above damon defensively, but maybes thats just because im sick of seeing guys like paul konerko run from first to third on his noodle arm. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Edited January 25, 2006 by SSH2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 06:22 PM) coco crisp was rated the best defensive left fielder in the game last season according to hardball times metrics, and his statistics translated to the centerfield position show just how good this youngster is. not only is he the best player involved in this trade, with the way his offseason training regimen is going, he might be one of the upincoming perennial all-stars in this league at the leadoff position. again though, as i've been saying all along, there is no deal as of right now, and nothing is done until it is done. Maybe this is why I thought you were talking about defensive stats. oh and he has been garbage in the lead off spot over the last three years. .271 .312 .369 .681 Not exactly perennial all stars resume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:33 PM) Well I thought I proved he wasnt when I listed his defensive stats and he wasnt really top ten in the AL in CF. Or when we compared their offensive numbers he wasnt top three in the AL. But I guess you are the law above and beyond what happens during actual play. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> coco crisps .810 ops would be good for second highest in the american league amonst centerfielders. you're over analyzing, and along with ssh trying to argue something that is nothing. if you think coco crisp wouldnt be a top centerfielder, then by all means think that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:41 PM) coco crisps .810 ops would be good for second highest in the american league amonst centerfielders. you're over analyzing, and along with ssh trying to argue something that is nothing. if you think coco crisp wouldnt be a top centerfielder, then by all means think that. Offensively or defensively, clarify please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:35 PM) I guess this is what made me think that you meant defensive ability. Or when you used translated stats to say he is top of the line. using translated stats usually means comparing positions. But I should have just assumed you meant whatever point is easier to make for you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> damons name was brought up? again, stop overanalyzing and arguing for the sake of arguing. jesus h. christ, your going to have a heart attack going down the road your heading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:41 PM) Offensively or defensively, clarify please. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> both. usually when somebody says a top insert position here they mean that that player would be tops at his position in any and all forms. do you agree or disagree that coco crisp will be a top centerfielder or if he stays in cleveland, a top left fielder, in the years to come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) Maybe this is why I thought you were talking about defensive stats. oh and he has been garbage in the lead off spot over the last three years. .271 .312 .369 .681 Not exactly perennial all stars resume. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the only thing i mentioned with the words 'leading off' and 'coco crisp' in it was that he should bat second with loretta leading off. next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:36 PM) He has lost any credibility in this argument. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> there is no argument at hand here, pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:45 PM) both. usually when somebody says a top insert position here they mean that that player would be tops at his position in any and all forms. do you agree or disagree that coco crisp will be a top centerfielder or if he stays in cleveland, a top left fielder, in the years to come? well defensively he isnt even top ten in the AL. So no he wouldnt be. Offensively, based on this year, he would be about 4th for Cf'ers. if he stayed in LF in cleveland, defensively he would be top three, offensively, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(q\/\/3r+y @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) It truly wouldn't be a major improvement over damons arm. Crisp's arm is always regarded as weak... piss poor... below average. I think crisp would do just fine in center however. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i never said it would be a major improvement over damons arm. that is ssh being the clown he is. i respect your opinion, and in this case, agree with it. i also like the new name, qwert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Zone rating and range factor along with fielding percentage are not the be all end all stats just so you know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:46 PM) the only thing i mentioned with the words 'leading off' and 'coco crisp' in it was that he should bat second with loretta leading off. next... coco crisp was rated the best defensive left fielder in the game last season according to hardball times metrics, and his statistics translated to the centerfield position show just how good this youngster is. not only is he the best player involved in this trade, with the way his offseason training regimen is going, he might be one of the upincoming perennial all-stars in this league at the leadoff position. Oh but what about when you said that??? You said all star lead off man. Doesnt that mean he would be leading off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 both. usually when somebody says a top insert position here they mean that that player would be tops at his position in any and all forms. do you agree or disagree that coco crisp will be a top centerfielder or if he stays in cleveland, a top left fielder, in the years to come? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> IF Crisp plays good defense in CF he would probably be a top CF'er in the MLB. His numbers from LF sure aren't special though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Oh but what about when you said that??? You said all star lead off man. Doesnt that mean he would be leading off? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Using redandwhite's own quotes against him is fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 25, 2006 -> 03:48 PM) well defensively he isnt even top ten in the AL. So no he wouldnt be. Offensively, based on this year, he would be about 4th for Cf'ers. if he stayed in LF in cleveland, defensively he would be top three, offensively, no. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> now this is where we can start arguing. if a player is an above average defensive centerfielder, and ranks fourth among major league centerfielders offensively in all of the major leagues, that doesn't qualify him as being a "top centerfielder?" i mean, with all due respect (not to ssh, but you) many people here have been calling joe crede a "top third baseman" and he was statistically one of the worst? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH2005 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Anyone who says that Joe Crede is a "top third baseman" needs to lay off the crack. He's a "top DEFENSIVE third baseman." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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