-- I am amazed at how many people I still see, particularly in the 'burbs, who troll around in giant SUV's all by themselves to get groceries.  I'd be embarrassed.  I mean, does North Shore soccer mom really need a full size Ford Excursion with a brush guard and fog lamps on the front, just to get around Winnetka?  Hey, buy whatever car/truck/SUV you want, but you look like a fool.

As long as she has a 'Support the Troops' sticker on the back I'm cool with it.

Bush just announced they are quiting filling the strategic reserves, crude dropped by a dollar PDQ.

Bush just announced they are quiting filling the strategic reserves, crude dropped by a dollar PDQ.

 

Apparently he also said they are trying to reduce the number of "boutique fuels"

Under pressure to attempt to rein in soaring gasoline prices, President Bush announced Tuesday that he would halt deposits into the strategic petroleum reserve and that federal regulators are probing for signs of price-gouging in the nation's fuel markets.

 

In a speech, Bush said the Energy Department would defer deposits of oil into the strategic reserve in hopes the move would make more oil available for consumer needs.

 

Bush also said he had ordered antitrust authorities to probe for price-fixing or other anticompetitive behavior in the nation's energy markets.

 

"Americans understand by and large that the price of crude oil is going up and that the prices are going up, but what they don't want and will not accept is manipulation of the market. And neither will I," Bush said.

 

The Federal Trade Commission is looking for any signs of unfair manipulation of gas prices, Bush said. Also, the Justice Department is working with the FTC and the Energy Department to look for signs of illegal manipulation or cheating.

 

The FTC and the Justice Department have also contacted state attorneys general to offer technical assistance and to urge them to conduct their own investigations into possible illegal price manipulation.

Every time Aff-ass-enjahn-idiot-i opens his mouth and farts, the price goes up. That's not manipluation.

I agree with both of you.  If I had a way to commute via mass transit, I would be all over that option.  But I don't, especially in Dallas where EVERYTHING is 30 miles from where you are.  How does that happen?

 

I'm in the same boat as you guys - in order to use public transportation, it would require 2 trains and 3 buses which would take between 3 and 4 ours each trip.

That happens because urban planners in the mid to late 20th century were all of the mind that cars were the way to go EVERYWHERE.  Turns out maybe they were wrong.  Sprawl is killing us.  And cities like Dallas, LA, and others that are basically just endless suburbs, have no incentive to increase density.  Even if you put in mass transit, everything is too spread out, so it will take decades (if it ever happens) for the city to mature enough to condense around transit locations.

 

There is no easy solution, but one thing that can work is to put in mass transit options and push businesses to build near them (via tax incentives or TIF zones or whatever).  Denver has been doing that, and their light rail has been wildly succesful, even though Denver has some sprawl issues as well.

 

That and automakers basically bribed cities which had really good transportation systems in the 30s and 40s to dismantle them. The LA tram lines for example.

That all sounds reasonable. Not a huge help, but a help nonetheless, in the short run.

You're kidding me, I thought they finally topped off the SPR a few years ago? They've seriously still been filling that thing this whole time? Yowza.

You're kidding me, I thought they finally topped off the SPR a few years ago?  They've seriously still been filling that thing this whole time?  Yowza.

 

They released a bunch for Katrina relief right?

They released a bunch for Katrina relief right?

Yeah I think they did then (correctly btw), but I didn't realize we resumed filling the thing afterwards.

AP. Now this article is just damn fun.

 

President Bush on Tuesday ordered a temporary suspension of environmental rules for gasoline, making it easier for refiners to meet demand and possibly dampen prices at the pump...

 

Easing the environment rules will allow refiners greater flexibility in providing oil supplies since they will not have to use certain additives such as ethanol to meet clean air standards. The suspension of oil purchases for the federal emergency oil reserve is likely to have only modest impact since relative little extra oil will be involved....

 

The president said Democrats in the past have urged higher taxes on fuel and price caps to control fuel expenses, but he said neither approach works. Instead, he called for increased conservation, an expansion of domestic production and increased use of alternative fuels like ethanol.

So wait...the way to control gas prices is through the use of alternative fuels like ethanol. So in order to accomplish this goal, we're going to stop requiring refiners to use ethanol.

 

Seriously, I wonder if the person who wrote that article realized what they had just written.

AP.  Now this article is just damn fun.

 

So wait...the way to control gas prices is through the use of alternative fuels like ethanol.  So in order to accomplish this goal, we're going to stop requiring refiners to use ethanol.

 

Seriously, I wonder if the person who wrote that article realized what they had just written.

 

Ethanol will never work, it's just too inefficient and there's not enough of it to go around. The alternative, MTBE, is known to be an animal carcinogen, so yeah.

Ethanol will never work, it's just too inefficient and there's not enough of it to go around. The alternative, MTBE, is known to be an animal carcinogen, so yeah.

In older forms, or more specifically when ethanol is made from corn, you'd have been 100% right. But there are new methods of producing ethanol coming on line which have the potential to turn that around. Brazil, for example, uses ethanol as the majority of it's fuel right now, and they produce it from sugar cane, which is roughly 7 times as efficient as producing it from corn. Furthermore, refinements in the processing of corn have actually made that form more efficient as well, such that the energy gap in using corn-based ethanol is either shrinking or completely gone.

 

The real key for the U.S. though is going to be to get the process correct using a crop other than corn, like that switchgrass the Pres. mentionned in his SOTU address, which can grow on very dry land and hopefully be refined into ethanol.

A stat printed in the Trib a few years ago said that if our nation's vehicles averaged 10% better gas mileage, we'd eliminate all dependency on all middle east oil.

 

Thus, just raise CAFE standards 12% on new vehicles and problem solved.

Edited April 25, 200619 yr by shoota

A stat printed in the Trib a few years ago said that if our nation's vehicles averaged 10% better gas mileage, we'd eliminate all dependency on all middle east oil.

 

Thus, just raise CAFE standards 12% on new vehicles and problem solved.

Of course, you've missed 1 small step there...you would need to immediately replace every single car in this country with a car built to the new standards in order to say "problem solved". While this would be good for Detroit and Toyota, it might not be that great for most taxpayers.

Of course, you've missed 1 small step there...you would need to immediately replace every single car in this country with a car built to the new standards in order to say "problem solved".  While this would be good for Detroit and Toyota, it might not be that great for most taxpayers.

 

 

I dont know dude. The way things are going its almost as expensive to buy a tank of gas as it is to buy a whole new car.

 

LOL!

In older forms, or more specifically when ethanol is made from corn, you'd have been 100% right.  But there are new methods of producing ethanol coming on line which have the potential to turn that around.  Brazil, for example, uses ethanol as the majority of it's fuel right now, and they produce it from sugar cane, which is roughly 7 times as efficient as producing it from corn.  Furthermore, refinements in the processing of corn have actually made that form more efficient as well, such that the energy gap in using corn-based ethanol is either shrinking or completely gone.

 

The real key for the U.S. though is going to be to get the process correct using a crop other than corn, like that switchgrass the Pres. mentionned in his SOTU address, which can grow on very dry land and hopefully be refined into ethanol.

 

And the amount of corn needed for that amount of ethanol would be enormous and wouldn't leave any corn for regular consumption. Ethanol isn't the answer, and the reason why Brazil can use sugracane for ethanol fuel is because the demand for automobiles is incredibly small compared to America's.

But wouldn't an ethanol blend use less oil than regular gas and less corn than plain ethanol?

But wouldn't an ethanol blend use less oil than regular gas and less corn than plain ethanol?

Yes, but at least for now, there are many problems with that approach, including the fact that the more ethanol you put in a fuel, the harder it is for some engines to burn the fuel (eth. isn't all that easy on engine parts, especially plastics, if they're not designed for it.) It's also higher octane than gasoline. Ethanol also can be harder to transport than gasoline, so if it's all done in areas where corn is grown, it can be a bear to get it into cities.

 

The real key, IMO, is going to be figuring out a way to develop ethanol using a plant that can be grown widely enough to cut down transportation costs and refined cheaply enough that it doesn't spike fuel prices too much. I think we're starting to get close on those goals. Once we're there, then the question becomes getting cars that can use mainly ethanol in consumer's hands.

I'm going to get on my soapbox for 30 seconds here and just say 3 simple things...

All new cars should be FlexFuel (E85) - Mandated by Government

Governemnt should help Ethanol replace gas (even if they FORCE oil companies to invest their rediculous profits into Ethanol plants)

Government needs to invest HEAVLY into Hydrogen research and development.

In older forms, or more specifically when ethanol is made from corn, you'd have been 100% right.  But there are new methods of producing ethanol coming on line which have the potential to turn that around.  Brazil, for example, uses ethanol as the majority of it's fuel right now, and they produce it from sugar cane, which is roughly 7 times as efficient as producing it from corn.  Furthermore, refinements in the processing of corn have actually made that form more efficient as well, such that the energy gap in using corn-based ethanol is either shrinking or completely gone.

Interesting note: You'd think that if we used American grown products to produce ethanol, it would bolster our economy and really give a kick to our farming industry. I heard a saying (I'm paraphrasing here), that as farmers go, so goes the economy. meaning, if the farmers depress, the US will depress.

Yes, but at least for now, there are many problems with that approach, including the fact that the more ethanol you put in a fuel, the harder it is for some engines to burn the fuel (eth. isn't all that easy on engine parts, especially plastics, if they're not designed for it.)  It's also higher octane than gasoline.  Ethanol also can be harder to transport than gasoline, so if it's all done in areas where corn is grown, it can be a bear to get it into cities.

 

The real key, IMO, is going to be figuring out a way to develop ethanol using a plant that can be grown widely enough to cut down transportation costs and refined cheaply enough that it doesn't spike fuel prices too much.  I think we're starting to get close on those goals.  Once we're there, then the question becomes getting cars that can use mainly ethanol in consumer's hands.

So in your opinion, do you think ethonal has a negative impact on mileage? I don't know enough about it... and it seems like you might.

So in your opinion, do you think ethonal has a negative impact on mileage?  I don't know enough about it... and it seems like you might.

E85 information

Ethanol has less energy content than gasoline. However, E85 also has a much higher octane (ranging from 100 to 105) than gasoline. FFVs (FlexFuel Vehicles) are not optimized to E85, so they experience a 10-15% drop in fuel economy. This will vary based on the way one drives, the air pressure in the tires, and additional driving conditions..

yea. My Explorer gets definitely 10-15% less. It sucks. Thanks for the article.