hammerhead johnson Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ May 5, 2006 -> 04:34 PM) Yep, playing for one run at at time, in the American League, is pretty dumb. Especially when the ball is jumping at our park. From the 8th inning on, playing for one run does make sense though. It's called conservative, playoff-style baseball. ONE RUN AT A TIME. Especially with our pitching. Again, I feel like I'm talking to a Cubs fan whose entire baseball philosophy revolves around greed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 5, 2006 -> 10:43 AM) Then maybe Iguchi is a #6 hitter, but we need to get that leadoff man (whoever is leading off an inning, not just Podsednik) in scoring position. That's what championship teams do, because you're not going to slug your way deep into the playoffs. Once in a great while you'll have an exception like the late 80s Oakland As. LaRussa was of that same train of thought: let's not get too aggressive with Lansford/Weiss sacrificing themselves to put Henderson into scoring positon. Let's wait for Jose and Mark to clean up. They got their one championship, but it should have been like three or four if their offense was more conservative, given the circumstances. Playoff ball is all about defense and conservative offense. That applies to all the major organized team sports. Yes that is a great concept, the point of baseball is to get men in scoring position and then knocking them in. I think you just dont understand how much having a man on second hurts Thome. He obviously wont drive him in with a single. He has walks at a .700 clip with a runner on 2nd. So we have taken the bat out of his hands effectively, and given up an out with one of our best contact hitters at this point. I would rather take the added benefit of letting iguchi make it 1st and 3rd, than make the #2 and #3 hitters give up their at bats just to get a man on 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 5, 2006 -> 10:48 AM) It's called conservative, playoff-style baseball. ONE RUN AT A TIME. Especially with our pitching. Again, I feel like I'm talking to a Cubs fan whose entire baseball philosophy revolves around greed. Is it really neccessary to insult him just because he doesnt share your point of view? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 5, 2006 -> 04:53 PM) Is it really neccessary to insult him just because he doesnt share your point of view? You act like it's my opinion or something.... It's a f***ing undeniable fact, come on. You play conservative on offense. There ain't no opposing viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 5, 2006 -> 10:56 AM) You act like it's my opinion or something.... It's a f***ing undeniable fact, come on. You play conservative on offense. There ain't no opposing viewpoint. It is your opinion, because the manager of the WS champs doesnt share your view. With your offensive strategy, we might not have even won the game yesterday, because you would have sac'ed iguchi, walked Thome, and may have not even had a run in that first inning. Since this team hasnt really played YOUR way this year, I would say im pretty happy that they havent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 5, 2006 -> 04:59 PM) It is your opinion, because the manager of the WS champs doesnt share your view. With your offensive strategy, we might not have even won the game yesterday, because you would have sac'ed iguchi, walked Thome, and may have not even had a run in that first inning. Since this team hasnt really played YOUR way this year, I would say im pretty happy that they havent. We'll see what's up come playoff time. And you know, with Konerko hitting the cover off of the ball, you don't think that a lot of those walks are going to come back and bite the opposition? They're not walking Thome to get to Rondell White, you know. That's Paul f***ing Konerko on deck. You're gonna have some GIDPs, and you're also gonna have a s***load of runs batted in with that guy at the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 5, 2006 -> 04:48 PM) It's called conservative, playoff-style baseball. ONE RUN AT A TIME. Especially with our pitching. Again, I feel like I'm talking to a Cubs fan whose entire baseball philosophy revolves around greed. Greed? When RockRaines is defending me, maybe...just maybe, you're wrong. Yes, I'm a greedy sonofab**** for wanting the Sox to not play for ONE run. If we were going to play conservative baseball, we should have traded for Juan Pierre, and made him our DH and #3 hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Show me a great offensive team that doesn't rely heavily on walks and homers, because I'm not sure it exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 5, 2006 -> 11:03 AM) We'll see what's up come playoff time. And you know, with Konerko hitting the cover off of the ball, you don't think that a lot of those walks are going to come back and bite the opposition? They're not walking Thome to get to Rondell White, you know. That's Paul f***ing Konerko on deck. You're gonna have some GIDPs, and you're also gonna have a s***load of runs batted in with that guy at the plate. Oh, now its whats effective in the playoffs. I see. Playing for every run possible is the way to win playoff games, no s***. And this team has the ability to do that if necessary. The playoffs are like playing every regular season game from the 8th inning. Which basically agrees with everything Fathom has been saying. Right now, the way Ozzie has been managing it, it has worked to perfection. Last year's lineup is nothing compared to this years, and I think the stats support me on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 (edited) For comparison's sake. Last years April offense 21 HR, 106 runs, .255 BA .316 OBP .691 OPS 2006 April 33 HR 140 runs .281 BA .358 OBP .825 OPS oh, and more doubles, triples and hits. Edited May 5, 2006 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ May 5, 2006 -> 05:06 PM) Greed? When RockRaines is defending me, maybe...just maybe, you're wrong. Yes, I'm a greedy sonofab**** for wanting the Sox to not play for ONE run. If we were going to play conservative baseball, we should have traded for Juan Pierre, and made him our DH and #3 hitter. LOL, so you probably long for the days of Thomas/Ordonez/Lee/Konerko, yeah? You enjoy watching us get shut out by some rookie, or some dude like Joe f***ing Mays? Not me. I like to be in every single game. It's called conservatism, not an all-or-nothing style of offense that you support. I think you're a great poster for the most part, but you gotta kick this bulls*** philosophy to the curb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 As long as we keep taking the walks like we are now, we'll be more than fine on offense. Even if we go through a "power outage" or two, runs will be scored if that many guys are on base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 5, 2006 -> 11:11 AM) LOL, so you probably long for the days of Thomas/Ordonez/Lee/Konerko, yeah? You enjoy watching us get shut out by some rookie, or some dude like Joe f***ing Mays? Not me. I like to be in every single game. It's called conservatism, not an all-or-nothing style of offense that you support. I think you're a great poster for the most part, but you gotta kick this bulls*** philosophy to the curb. Are you seriously comparing this offense with that one? Grasping at straws are we? That team didnt have the ability to go out in the 8th or 9th inning, steal a base and single him home. It just wasnt in the cards. This team does if the situation permits it. BUt your philosophy of doing it every inning, is simply not smart baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 All righty boys, play nicely and keep the insults in your pockets... I don't want to get out my admin stick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 5, 2006 -> 05:07 PM) Oh, now its whats effective in the playoffs. I see. Playing for every run possible is the way to win playoff games, no s***. And this team has the ability to do that if necessary. The playoffs are like playing every regular season game from the 8th inning. Which basically agrees with everything Fathom has been saying. Right now, the way Ozzie has been managing it, it has worked to perfection. Last year's lineup is nothing compared to this years, and I think the stats support me on that. So, the way to go about things on offense in the playoffs is NOT the way to do things during the regular season. I gotcha. Can you see the ridiculousness that I'm putting up with right about now? Don't you want to play your best style of ball at all times? Hmmm, let's try our best to be greedy pigs now, and then we'll tone it down a notch in the playoffs? This is a common sense issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 5, 2006 -> 05:11 PM) LOL, so you probably long for the days of Thomas/Ordonez/Lee/Konerko, yeah? You enjoy watching us get shut out by some rookie, or some dude like Joe f***ing Mays? Not me. I like to be in every single game. It's called conservatism, not an all-or-nothing style of offense that you support. I think you're a great poster for the most part, but you gotta kick this bulls*** philosophy to the curb. If we had the pitching that we have now, back with that lineup, we would have been amazing. We're in every single game now due to our pitching. And I don't get what my bulls*** philosophy is? I believe that with our lineup, and in our park, we don't need to play for one run early in the game. Don't forget this....we're a terrible bunting team. Also, playing to win one run games like we did last year might not work as well this year. Our set-up men were AMAZING last year. This year, there's no way they're going to be as successful as they were. Cotts and Politte were two of the most valuable pitchers in all of baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 5, 2006 -> 11:17 AM) So, the way to go about things on offense in the playoffs is NOT the way to do things during the regular season. I gotcha. Can you see the ridiculousness that I'm putting up with right about now? Don't you want to play your best style of ball at all times? Hmmm, let's try our best to be greedy pigs now, and then we'll tone it down a notch in the playoffs? This is a common sense issue. SO, you would like to go on the record and say that the baseball style in the playoffs is the exact same in the regular season? And the subtle insults are kinda childish are they not? Edited May 5, 2006 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 5, 2006 -> 05:18 PM) SO, you would like to go on the record and say that the baseball style in the playoffs is the exact same in the regular season? Why shouldn't it be? If it wins in the playoffs, shouldn't it win by default during the regular season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ May 5, 2006 -> 05:18 PM) If we had the pitching that we have now, back with that lineup, we would have been amazing. We're in every single game now due to our pitching. I'm talking about getting shut out by Joe Mays and a bunch of other rookie scrubs. Pitching wouldn't have done jack s*** for that lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 5, 2006 -> 11:19 AM) Why shouldn't it be? If it wins in the playoffs, shouldn't it win by default during the regular season? Thats where you are fundamentally wrong. Baseball in October is not the same as baseball in the middle of the summer. The way Ozzie has managed this team with Thome in the lineup has been brilliant, and I get exactly what hes trying to do with the tools he has. You are stuck on last year's playoff run and that team's makeup. Well its just not the same as this year's. You need to figure that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 5, 2006 -> 05:20 PM) I'm talking about getting shut out by Joe Mays and a bunch of other rookie scrubs. Pitching wouldn't have done jack s*** for that lineup. I'm going to hold off judging this year's offense until some of these players cool off. With the way they're swinging right now, I hate playing for one run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 5, 2006 -> 09:53 AM) Is it really neccessary to insult him just because he doesnt share your point of view? Since about 80% of his posts contain insults, I'd say the answer is yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 5, 2006 -> 05:21 PM) Thats where you are fundamentally wrong. Baseball in October is not the same as baseball in the middle of the summer. The way Ozzie has managed this team with Thome in the lineup has been brilliant, and I get exactly what hes trying to do with the tools he has. You are stuck on last year's playoff run and that team's makeup. Well its just not the same as this year's. You need to figure that out. Well, back to the basics: Get that runner in scoring position with less than two outs for your 3-4-5 I don't care who you are, or how many prodigious sluggers you have. If it works in the playoffs, you don't do something different during the regular season. You should treat every single game as if it's a playoff game, although that will clash with the amount of rest that you need to give players during the regular season. It's not all-or-nothing in the regular season, and then conservatism in the playoffs. IT IS CONSERVATISM AT ALL TIMES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 5, 2006 -> 10:21 AM) Thats where you are fundamentally wrong. Baseball in October is not the same as baseball in the middle of the summer. The way Ozzie has managed this team with Thome in the lineup has been brilliant, and I get exactly what hes trying to do with the tools he has. You are stuck on last year's playoff run and that team's makeup. Well its just not the same as this year's. You need to figure that out. I agree. There's no point in playing ultra-conservative "small-ball" during the regular season against teams like the Royals and Devil Rays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ May 5, 2006 -> 05:24 PM) Since about 80% of his posts contain insults, I'd say the answer is yes. OMG, and you're one to talk. At least I have a warm and fuzzy side. You are bitter 24/7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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