Was Guillen Out Of Line Last Night?

[gojimthome]

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7577/1975/1600/tracey.jpg

[jackie hayes]

Also why didn't Montero hit anyone its not like he had his good stuff going either.

 

First, why didn't Montero come in and hit him after Tracey "failed"? I mean, he's got the beloved "veteran experience", shouldn't he have been in the same boat as Tracey? Or, was it different, because Ozzie didn't ask Montero to hit him?

 

^^^^^^^^

 

*** crickets ***

[Felix]

^^^^^^^^

 

*** crickets ***

Montero didn't hit someone because there was no one else warming up in the pen at that time, and since he would have gotten tossed, a pitcher would have to have pitch without warming up.

[Kalapse]

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7577/1975/1600/tracey.jpg

They're getting even worse.

[Dick Allen]

Montero didn't hit someone because there was no one else warming up in the pen at that time, and since he would have gotten tossed, a pitcher would have to have pitch without warming up.

No. Its like an injury. They would have given a replacement adequate time to warm up.

[Guest JimH]

The reason he wanted Tracey to do it is because Guillen knew they'd made the Riske trade and Tracey was gonna be sent out after the game anyways. Montero is still on the team and why risk him getting suspended when Politte's shoulder is still iffy.

 

This was not a favoritism situation.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

The reason he wanted Tracey to do it is because Guillen knew they'd made the Riske trade and Tracey was gonna be sent out after the game anyways. Montero is still on the team and why risk him getting suspended when Politte's shoulder is still iffy.

 

This was not a favoritism situation.

 

Ozzie explained it perfectly in what was shown comcast show after the game. I luv how he said that he doesn't give a s*** how outsiders interpreted it as long as the team is on the same page with him. I heart Ozzie.

[redandwhite]

Guillen was entirely out of line, yes. Not a single question about it.

 

Can anyone summarize the last nine pages for me, how on earth can someone justify slash defend what Guillen did?

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The kid didn't hit Blaylock, he got him out. The $12 million a year pitcher pitches to Blaylock and he hits one 10,000 ft. Maybe the wrong guy was throwing at him. Pitchers usually don't have to be told to hit someone. Buerhle wasn't against Baltimore last year, and he got tossed without warning costing him a streak of games where he went 6 innings.

 

 

again, so what?

 

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that Tracey's gone, who becomes the designated beaner?

 

 

Montero?

 

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 16, 2006 -> 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not ignorant as in not informed... ignorant as in rude. He asked a question and you snap at him to look it up? Who the hell made you the MB police to tell people what they can and can't ask? Rhetorical.

 

I'm aware you're informed. Did I say you weren't? No.

 

Believe it. I rarely pick up a newspaper and if I do it's to do the crossword, or check movie listings. Hell, I have 71 newspapers from last offseason that I never even looked at and will someday (Jim hopes) will make a scrapbook from. I don't watch the news other than for the weather and traffic, if I'm listening to the radio it's Howard on Sirius or a baseball game on XM, and the internet stuff I read I get from THIS BOARD and the posters HERE.

 

Good riddance.. I wish it were that easy sometimes.. :headshake

 

MB police? Jesus Steff, who made you public defender #1. The incident is all over the freaking place- radio, tv, newspaper, internet- and he comes on a message board to ask what freaking happened? Give me a break.

 

You said I was ignorant. Ignorant has a couple definitions and none mean rude. Uninformed, lack of basic education, unknowledgable all mean ignorant. I have no idea how ignorant means rude.

 

I still find it hard to believe that you don't check out MLB or ESPN or chisox.com. This can not be the only place you get information from. If that was the case you would be highly uninformed about most subjects and from your posts I don't find you as being uninformed about anything.

 

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Jun 16, 2006 -> 03:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Guillen was entirely out of line, yes. Not a single question about it.

 

Can anyone summarize the last nine pages for me, how on earth can someone justify slash defend what Guillen did?

 

Of course there is a question about it. That is why there is a discussion about it. If there was no question about it then there would not even be a debate, vote, or conversation over this whole thing. Tracey disrespects Ozzie by not following orders. Ozzie puts Tracey in his place. The way it should be. End of story.

[wsox08]

Guillen was not out of line. He may have gone a little overboard but overall I think Tracey should have hit Blalock and Guillen just acted out of frustration.

[SoxFan1]

again, so what?

Montero?

MB police? Jesus Steff, who made you public defender #1. The incident is all over the freaking place- radio, tv, newspaper, internet- and he comes on a message board to ask what freaking happened? Give me a break.

 

You said I was ignorant. Ignorant has a couple definitions and none mean rude. Uninformed, lack of basic education, unknowledgable all mean ignorant. I have no idea how ignorant means rude.

 

I still find it hard to believe that you don't check out MLB or ESPN or chisox.com. This can not be the only place you get information from. If that was the case you would be highly uninformed about most subjects and from your posts I don't find you as being uninformed about anything.

Of course there is a question about it. That is why there is a discussion about it. If there was no question about it then there would not even be a debate, vote, or conversation over this whole thing. Tracey disrespects Ozzie by not following orders. Ozzie puts Tracey in his place. The way it should be. End of story.

Yes, that is in fact what I did.

 

First off, I missed the entire incident because, like I said earlier, I was watching A Fistful of Dollars. Now, when I logged on this morning, I clealrly did not know that this incident ever happened. So, I get on to SoxTalk and see that there is something that happened between Sean Tracey and Ozzie Guillen in which Guillen snapped. So, I ask politely for someone to explain to me what happens, and then you come back with the comment you did. Now, considering SoxTalk was the 1st website I went to when I got on the computer, I did not hear anything about the incident. You might ask, then, why didn't he see it on TV? Well, because I woke up and watched Soccer (World Cup) all day long. My TV did not switch from ESPN 2 and ESPN all day.

 

Boy, sure is a shame that I had to explain myself in such a manner. Is this a good enough explanation for you Mr. Information?

Edited June 16, 2006 by SoxFan1

[Felix]

No. Its like an injury. They would have given a replacement adequate time to warm up.

You sure about that? I could have sworn that it was otherwise.

[SoxAce]

I don't need to explain myself. Everyone knows how I feel about it.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(wsox08 @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 11:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Guillen was not out of line. He may have gone a little overboard but overall I think Tracey should have hit Blalock and Guillen just acted out of frustration.

 

This is what can happen when players retaliate and are beaned:

 

Edited June 16, 2006 by redandwhite

[rangercal]

This is what can happen when players retaliate and are beaned:

 

Im sure you would have the same reaction if papi got beaned twice by Randy Johnson. :rolly

[BHAMBARONS]

I didn't see the incident so I am been trying to get a picture from the thread here. But one thing I would have been worried about is if Blaylock gets hit what would have happened to our sluggers like Jim and Pauly or JD. Beanball wars can turn very ugly, Again I didn't see the incident so I don't know how it went down.

[Dick Allen]

From the Tribune:

 

 

 

Aug. 30, 2005

 

Guillen is incensed after Jermaine Dye, who hit two home runs and drove in six runs in the second game of a doubleheader, was hit by a pitch from Texas left-hander Erasmo Ramirez in the ninth inning. Guillen gets more suspicious when Showalter pinch-hits for slugger Mark Teixeira. "I'm not going to hit anyone today. I'm not going to hit anyone tomorrow. But to me, that's a bunch of [stuff]. . . . I don't know if Showalter did it or the pitcher did it on purpose. . . . You put it all together, and you start scratching your head. ... Good pitchers win games. Horse [manure] pitchers hit people."

 

My how Ozzie's attitude has changed. Either he thinks Tracey is a "horses***" pitcher, or he's a hypocrite. I will say this though, it appears Tracey was going back to Charlotte anyway. Ozzie showing him up was wrong IMO, and could have been handled away from cameras. I am happy that Tracey's failure to hit someone wasn't why he was sent back to Charlotte.

Edited June 16, 2006 by Dick Allen

[Guest JimH]

I love the spin people put on these things.

 

First of all Guillen is referring to a pitcher who starts things, i.e. what Padilla did. I remember the Dye incident well, that's what Guillen was referring to ... his guy getting hit first.

 

Guillen will retaliate, he has come out and said he'd protect his players. He's also said he won't start crap like that.

 

And Buehrle is a good pitcher, he let yesterday be yesterday and came out and won the game.

[VAfan]

I didn't see the incident, but having read enough and thought about it, I decided to offer my two cents.

 

AJ Pierzynski should have charged the mound after he got hit a second time.

 

Yes, this would have resulted in an automatic suspension for AJ, but how hard could baseball punish him when it would be clear to anyone looking at the tapes that Padilla intentionally hit him twice? It is also clear from the Barrett incident, the Escobar incident, and others, that teams have decided to target AJ Pierzynski on our club. It no doubt stems from the way he gets under other teams' skin, and the way last season's postseason unfolded. Almost as much as Ozzie, AJ has become the mouth of the Sox. I think that's unhealthy. Ozzie should be the lightning rod and keep all the crap away from his players.

 

The only way for AJ to stop these incidents from repeating themselves is to go directly after those who have targeted him. Do they really want a piece of him? He's a big boy (6'3" 235). I think once would be enough to end the beanings.

 

The repercussion would be that AJ would get suspended, and others might have during the ensuing brawl. But the Sox wouldn't have to be talking about sticking together - they would just be sticking together. We can survive 5 games with Widger behind the plate.

 

************

As it is, with this incident having passed, the best revenge is to just beat the pants off the offending club and knock them out of first place, which is what we did.

Edited June 16, 2006 by VAfan

[IlliniBob72]

Where is all this talk about Tracey willfully blowing off Ozzie coming from? Hell, the pitch Blaylock grounded to second was a good 2 feet inside, not over the heart of the plate.

 

Ozzie will always hold a special place for me for last season, but he is demonstrating that he is an ass. First with his thoughts on Uggie Urbina and Jason Grmisley, and now this. He'd better continue winning or his welcome will be worn out quickly. To steal Ozzie's line of thinking, if you are an ass and you win, you are firey and a free-speaker. If you are an ass and you lose, you're just an asshole no one wants around.

Edited June 16, 2006 by IlliniBob72

[Steff]

Where is all this talk about Tracey willfully blowing off Ozzie coming from? Hell, the pitch Blaylock grounded to second was a good 2 feet inside, not over the heart of the plate.

 

Ozzie will always hold a special place for me for last season, but he is demonstrating that he is an ass. First with his thoughts on Uggie Urbina and Jason Grmisley, and now this. He'd better continue winning or his welcome will be worn out quickly. To steal Ozzie's line of thinking, if you are an ass and you win, you are firey and a free-speaker. If you are an ass and you lose, you're just an asshole no one wants around.

 

 

What did he say about Uggie...??

 

 

Damn, I should probably read the newspapers.

[henry wiggins]

I didn't see the incident, but having read enough and thought about it, I decided to offer my two cents.

 

AJ Pierzynski should have charged the mound after he got hit a second time.

 

Yes, this would have resulted in an automatic suspension for AJ, but how hard could baseball punish him when it would be clear to anyone looking at the tapes that Padilla intentionally hit him twice? It is also clear from the Barrett incident, the Escobar incident, and others, that teams have decided to target AJ Pierzynski on our club. It no doubt stems from the way he gets under other teams' skin, and the way last season's postseason unfolded. Almost as much as Ozzie, AJ has become the mouth of the Sox. I think that's unhealthy. Ozzie should be the lightening rod and keep all the crap away from his players.

 

The only way for AJ to stop these incidents from repeating themselves is to go directly after those who have targeted him. Do they really want a piece of him? He's a big boy (6'3" 235). I think once would be enough to end the beanings.

 

The repercussion would be that AJ would get suspended, and others might have during the ensuing brawl. But the Sox wouldn't have to be talking about sticking together - they would just be sticking together. We can survive 5 games with Widger behind the plate.

 

************

As it is, with this incident having passed, the best revenge is to just beat the pants off the offending club and knock them out of first place, which is what we did.

 

"We" can survive 5 games without AJ? Glad you're going to help out!

 

You're assuming a few things, with IMO no basis for the assumptions. First off you assume that AJ would get a 5-game suspension. What if he got a 10-game suspension?

 

You're assuming Widger will be able to play 5 games, that he won't get injured. If he were to get hurt, the Sox would be without a catcher. Um, does the team really want to bring up a AAA catcher in June or July to play some really important games? You may want to, but I doubt that Ken Williams and Ozzie do. That's an assumption on my part.

 

As a long-time Sox fan, I don't *want* a team made up of irascible hotheads who do stuff like charge the mound. I want them to recognize that there are a-holes in the game, like Padilla and Carlos Zambrano (two that spring to mind) and to NOT play into the stupid games that those a-holes start. Every team in the league, and especially in the division, is out to get the Sox this year. The good teams are out to get them by beating them in ballgames; the losers are out to get them with the kind of crap that Padilla pulled. Being a target goes with being a World Series Champion, and the measure of a repeat champion team is how well they deal with it *and keep on playing winning baseball*.

 

I also want, as a fan, to see the manager take charge of every situation in which one of his players is dissed or harmed. I want the manager to determine an appropriate course of action and implement it.

 

Don Cooper said last night that this thing isn't over, and that Texas plays at the Cell once more this year. They do. We'll see then what happens, and it better not be AJ getting tossed out of any games.

Edited June 16, 2006 by henry wiggins

[WCSox]

Saw the replay of Tracey's pitches to Blalock last night and it really looks like he was trying to hit him... but just wasn't able to. That's pretty pathetic. Hopefully he'll get better command of his pitches down in Charlotte.

[IlliniBob72]

Uggie and his buddies attacked some guys with machettes and Ozzie defended him. Perhaps I should cut him some slack since he's friends with Urbina. However, if a friend of mine goes after someone with a machette, I reconsider my relationship with the guy.

[Steff]

Uggie and his buddies attacked some guys with machettes and Ozzie defended him. Perhaps I should cut him some slack since he's friends with Urbina. However, if a friend of mine goes after someone with a machette, I reconsider my relationship with the guy.

 

 

 

I didn't read about the defense. T4TI.