October 11, 200619 yr QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 10, 2006 -> 11:53 PM) Who is number two? Not that it matters, lol you want him Not who I thought it was... I'm stumped
October 11, 200619 yr Must be someone from a different year. Because there is no one from 06 with those stats.
October 11, 200619 yr QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 11, 2006 -> 12:03 AM) No one from 00-06 with these numbers. Who is the mystery man? Juan Uribe's '04? winnar!
October 11, 200619 yr QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Oct 11, 2006 -> 12:04 AM) Juan Uribe's '04? Yup. Good call. I missed that some how when sorting through stats.
October 11, 200619 yr Author QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 11, 2006 -> 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No one from 00-06 with these numbers. Who is the mystery man? Really? Both guys are great defensively. The first guy people are willing to give 5/50 to. The second guy got his contract after that year and is now considered overpaid.
October 11, 200619 yr QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Oct 11, 2006 -> 12:06 AM) Really? Both guys are great defensively. The first guy people are willing to give 5/50 to. And they're idiots. The second guy got his contract after that year and is now (wrongly) considered overpaid. Fixed.
October 11, 200619 yr QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Oct 11, 2006 -> 12:06 AM) Really? Both guys are great defensively. The first guy people are willing to give 5/50 to. The second guy got his contract after that year and is now considered overpaid. Well considering how his stats compare from his '04 year to now and last year's ...
October 11, 200619 yr QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Oct 11, 2006 -> 12:06 AM) Really? Both guys are great defensively. The first guy people are willing to give 5/50 to. The second guy got his contract after that year and is now considered overpaid. Ya, it's Juan. Like I said I missed it some how. Joe's season is definitely better but I see the point you're making. Juan definitely isn't overpaid though, I think most people here agree with that.
October 11, 200619 yr Author QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 11, 2006 -> 12:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He screwed up the average for Uribe, thats why it was hard to find Yeah, now I see it. Not sure how it happened. So how is people are willing to throw so much money at Crede after this year when his season compares to Uribe's 2004? I know Crede has a better history than Juan, but his "great" season is surprising similar's to Uribe's "breakout" season. I completely forgot about it until someone posted Juan's SLG% from that season.
October 11, 200619 yr uribe had a .257 on base percentage in 2006....i dont need to say anything else
October 11, 200619 yr 2004 stats don't mean anything now. They're about as worthless as Scott Podsednik's left arm.
October 11, 200619 yr QUOTE(fathom @ Oct 11, 2006 -> 12:31 AM) 2004 stats don't mean anything now. They're about as worthless as Scott Podsednik's left arm. The comparison is good though. The Sox signed Uribe to an extension following his 2004 season - 3 yrs, 9.75 mill - and he's been mediocre offensively since, and some on this site argue that he is a burden to next year's team and he needs to be replaced. He can be traded still though due to the fact that he has actual value. If Crede signs 5/50, and goes into 03-05 crapper mode again, the Sox are screwed, plain and simple.
October 11, 200619 yr The only thing they have in common is the contract? Crede had MVP seasons throughout his minor league career and is getting better year to year in the majors. Uribe had only one good season (2004) where he posted a BA over .255 and an OPS over .750. I really don't believe Crede will get worse after a new contract. The only issue for Crede is his back.
October 11, 200619 yr Author I had a feeling someone would bring up the "Crede is getting better every year" argument. How do you figure? 2002:.285/.311/.515 2003:.261/.308/.433 85 point dip in OPS 2004:.239/.299/.418 24 point dip in OPS (109 since) 2005:.252/.303/.454 39 point increase (still 60 down from 2002) 2006:.283/.323/.506 72 point increase (up 12 since 2002) It looks like a parabola to me, but it could also be a cosine curve.
October 11, 200619 yr Uribe's 2004 month-by-month splits are really remarkable: By Day/Month AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS April 61 10 24 3 0 3 10 4 1 10 2 1 .393 .439 .590 1.029 May 109 21 33 6 3 4 6 10 0 16 5 1 .303 .361 .523 .884 June 108 17 24 10 1 4 19 8 0 26 0 2 .222 .276 .444 .720 July 57 5 7 0 0 2 5 4 1 13 0 3 .123 .190 .228 .418 August 76 12 22 3 2 5 17 2 1 15 1 2 .289 .305 .579 .884 September 85 17 30 9 0 5 17 3 0 14 1 2 .353 .371 .635 1.006 October 6 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 .333 .429 .333 .762 He had 2 months that were outstanding, mixed in with a lot of inconsistency. Compare that with Crede's 2006 splits: April 80 15 25 7 0 4 16 5 2 4 0 0 .313 .360 .550 .910 May 102 9 30 4 0 4 17 6 0 11 0 0 .294 .324 .451 .775 June 88 21 25 5 0 6 21 3 1 11 0 1 .284 .312 .545 .857 July 89 11 25 4 0 8 17 2 3 11 0 0 .281 .316 .596 .911 August 107 15 35 9 0 6 16 4 0 12 0 1 .327 .351 .579 .931 September 78 5 14 2 0 2 7 8 1 9 0 0 .179 .264 .282 .546 Crede didn't have the absolute peak months that Uribe had, but he was far more consistent until his back flared up in September.
October 12, 200619 yr AWESOME thread, and a reminder of one of the many reasons we need to sell high and trade Joe this offseason.
October 12, 200619 yr QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 12, 2006 -> 12:42 AM) Need? We dont NEED to trade Joe anywhere. If we want value for him, we do. Everybody seems to think this was a breakout year for Joe, what if it was only a career year? Plus, I don't like guys with a bad back and Scott Boras as an agent.
October 12, 200619 yr QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 12, 2006 -> 12:55 AM) And "what if" like expected Joe Crede came into his own this season at 28, and is going to be 30 HR, 95 RBI, .290 hitter, with GG defense? He did it this year, and could do it again next year. I agree with you, obviously if you could get a nice package, you look at it. However, the Sox are in the drivers seat, and should not be in any hurry to move Joe Crede. They should also not be in any hurry to give him a 4 or 5 year deal. Maybe I worded what I said wrong. I completely agree with part 2 of what you said there, no questions asked. And I HOPE Joe is actually just a 30/95 guy with GG defense that is a late bloomer. I really do hope I'm wrong on that one, especially if we keep Joe. However, the red flags make me very, very nervous.
October 12, 200619 yr QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Oct 11, 2006 -> 11:19 AM) I had a feeling someone would bring up the "Crede is getting better every year" argument. How do you figure? 2002:.285/.311/.515 2003:.261/.308/.433 85 point dip in OPS 2004:.239/.299/.418 24 point dip in OPS (109 since) 2005:.252/.303/.454 39 point increase (still 60 down from 2002) 2006:.283/.323/.506 72 point increase (up 12 since 2002) It looks like a parabola to me, but it could also be a cosine curve. God I so hope it's a parabola
October 12, 200619 yr QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Oct 11, 2006 -> 12:19 PM) I had a feeling someone would bring up the "Crede is getting better every year" argument. How do you figure? 2002:.285/.311/.515 2003:.261/.308/.433 85 point dip in OPS 2004:.239/.299/.418 24 point dip in OPS (109 since) 2005:.252/.303/.454 39 point increase (still 60 down from 2002) 2006:.283/.323/.506 72 point increase (up 12 since 2002) It looks like a parabola to me, but it could also be a cosine curve. We would be here all day backing our arguments up with numbers. You can make a case for both sides with his numbers. In 2002 he played in 53 games (200 ABs), too small of a sample size to compare with his other seasons of over 430 ABs and 130+ games. 2003 was his first full season which can produce good numbers since pitchers might not have a strategy on you. In 2004, it was his second full season and he definitely struggled more, which could have been for numerous reasons. However, he has steadily improved since September 2004. More HRs, higher OPS, less Ks, every year to include 2005's postseason. Now Uribe had an awesome first year in the AL (04) which is comparable to Crede's 2003, but since then he has gotten worse each year. Each year his OPS dropped from .833 all the way to .698. Now his first year, he might have had the same effect as Crede's where he benefits from pitchers not knowing him, so 2005 could have been a normal year for him. The problem is he got worse in 2006. These players are going in opposite directions. A one year drop-off or improvement is almost a given, but when a player strings multiple years in one direction, then that is where you start to see the trends. Crede - up, Uribe - down.
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