Ted Haggard

[southsider2k5]

He only owned up to it after being exposed.

 

(Haggard's sermon a week ago).

 

And his prayers were answered.

[bmags]

i am in the profession of laughing at these types of situations. Its the only way to stay sane. Somehow, soxfan, i don't think you'd have the same stance if this was just a politician and not a minister.

[sox4lifeinPA]

i am in the profession of laughing at these types of situations. Its the only way to stay sane. Somehow, soxfan, i don't think you'd have the same stance if this was just a politician and not a minister.

 

A) it's PA

 

B )I'd like to think that I'd have compassion on anyone who falls on their face, but I accept your point. A similar example would be Jim Macgrevey (homosexual former gov of nj) I felt the same way for his family. It's not funny or laughable that he found himself in that situation. It's sad and I feel for those affected by selfishness and pride.

 

C) I'd like to make special note, that I don't think I ever heard of this guy before this. In fact, had I known about him before, I might be more inclined to write a post about how much this guy sucks. I am not a fan of Mega-churches and in most cases I think they're byproducts of lazy christianity and justifications of egos (we can reach more people with a big church; God is blessing our church with so many people, he must want us to build a bigger sanctuary and coffee bar). I also think preaching disunity, which Haggard so obviously did, is sad christianity as well and only furthers my understanding of why some of you think so lowly of (I'd like to say "my faith" right here, but I don't espouse many if any beliefs as this guy).

 

D) James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

 

This guy will get his. I think laughing at him lowers yourself to his level. Once again, I haven't heard anyone express sadness for the family and friends of this person. There are thousands of lives that have been affected.

[Rex Kickass]

PA,

 

Frankly I think the whole situation sucks. It sucks for the thousands he hurt by lying about who he is. It sucks for the hundreds of thousands more who might be hurt tomorrow by lying about who he is. And it sucks for him.

 

When I first heard about the situation, there was an O Henry chuckle moment, yeah. But I think its horrible that people are so uncomfortable with who they are that they have to turn to this level of deception to others and even themselves. And I think its horrible that our society, and in some ways the faith that I claim as my own, make the idea of repression and discrimination and flat out hate so accessible and acceptable sometimes.

[sox4lifeinPA]

PA,

 

Frankly I think the whole situation sucks. It sucks for the thousands he hurt by lying about who he is. It sucks for the hundreds of thousands more who might be hurt tomorrow by lying about who he is. And it sucks for him.

 

When I first heard about the situation, there was an O Henry chuckle moment, yeah. But I think its horrible that people are so uncomfortable with who they are that they have to turn to this level of deception to others and even themselves. And I think its horrible that our society, and in some ways the faith that I claim as my own, make the idea of repression and discrimination and flat out hate so accessible and acceptable sometimes.

 

100% aquiesce

 

I'm really trying to sort out the "issue" of acceptance in the eyes of freedom under grace. I know that Ted Haggard's brand of Christianity isn't my own, but I don't believe in the ideology of someone like Marcus Borg either.

 

I like this guy named Jesus, but everyone seems that have their own fool proof explaination of what he said and it's hard to wade through the pride, false confidence, and false teaching.

[CanOfCorn]

And please don't lump the former Governor of NJ in to the same group. He NEVER preached hatred against homosexuals at all. He came out of the closet, hurt his wife, BIG TIME. Probably messed up his kids, too, but I don't laugh at him for coming out.

 

Although the whole hiring-your-lover-thing is pretty bad.

[sox4lifeinPA]

And please don't lump the former Governor of NJ in to the same group. He NEVER preached hatred against homosexuals at all. He came out of the closet, hurt his wife, BIG TIME. Probably messed up his kids, too, but I don't laugh at him for coming out.

 

Although the whole hiring-your-lover-thing is pretty bad.

 

lied about sex with men - check

 

destroyed marriage - check

 

hurt children terribly - check

 

held high public position - check

 

misused office and power for selfish reasons - check

 

so they're basically the same guy..except one preached against being homosexual and the other used power to hire his lover on staff

 

 

I mean, I get what you're saying, but it's still sad either way....not "HA HA, Preacher hated gay people when HE was one himself" It's disturbing of what was really going on with him. His sermons were probably driven by what he was trying to fight on the inside. Sad.

[Nokona]

so they're basically the same guy..except one preached against being homosexual and the other used power to hire his lover on staff

 

Not even close. Haggard is a (hypocritical) bigot. There's a huge difference there.

[Balta1701]

Not even close. Haggard is a (hypocritical) bigot. There's a huge difference there.

If I recall, McGreevy also used his position to help his partner out at the expense of the state, which was the other key part of his resignation (and why it was exposed)

[Rex Kickass]

McGreevey was a crook. As to whether or not it "destroyed" his marriage is up for debate. I have a feeling that this marriage was created knowing full well about his sexuality. He wants to get married now. He opposed gay marriage before he came out.

 

If he wants to get married now, great. But he's a hypocrite of the same degree as Haggard.

 

PA:

Whoda thought we'd agree on all these issues even three weeks ago?

[sox4lifeinPA]

McGreevey was a crook. As to whether or not it "destroyed" his marriage is up for debate. I have a feeling that this marriage was created knowing full well about his sexuality. He wants to get married now. He opposed gay marriage before he came out.

 

If he wants to get married now, great. But he's a hypocrite of the same degree as Haggard.

 

PA:

Whoda thought we'd agree on all these issues even three weeks ago?

 

 

 

I know...I'm a showtune away from coming out

 

 

seriously though, why would anyone want to approach me in serious spirtual discussion if i was defined by "the things I'm against"...so I needed a change. I won't talk about old or new PA, but I know that I've been "big montana sky-ing" (as my friend would say) my perspective on the world lately.

[mr_genius]

i don't see how this is a legit news story. some preacher is a hypocrite, wow. stop the presses.

 

the guy isn't an elected official or running for anything, it's really a stretch on the MSM to try to make this into a political scandal.

[Kid Gleason]

I like this guy named Jesus, but everyone seems that have their own fool proof explaination of what he said and it's hard to wade through the pride, false confidence, and false teaching.

 

It's sad, I really don't know as if I can say one way or another about this cat named "Jesus". I love the guy from what some people say of him, and I think he's a jerk from what others say of him. I don't know how much I can trust the books that are written about him, because if they were written by certain people, or of their kind, then I don't want to believe the words that are written. I really don't think anybody truely knows the guy, we might like to think we do, and we somehow have come to believe that we do, but we really don't. Heck, I live with my wife, spend tons of time with her, tell myself I do know her, but in all reality, there are certain areas of her that I will never know. So, how can I actually say I know Jesus?

 

It's so sad.

[FlaSoxxJim]

LOVE the Cthulhu campaign sticker, Kid!

[FlaSoxxJim]

i don't see how this is a legit news story. some preacher is a hypocrite, wow. stop the presses.

 

the guy isn't an elected official or running for anything, it's really a stretch on the MSM to try to make this into a political scandal.

 

You're right, it's a conservative Evangelical church scandal. But since the Evangelical and fundamendalist dominionist churches have become so alligned with one side of the political spectrum, a large-scale scandal is going to have political ramifications.

 

A guy who is in on weekly conference calls to the White House and who is clearly in a position to turn out the vote of millions from the Christian conservative base obviously is capable of affecting facets of the political climate regionally as well as nationally. Likewise, a scandal that paints him as being something very different than what he portrays and what he preaches has the potential to create political ripples.

 

That said, I don't think it really will have much effect as far as turnouts and outcomes tomorrow.

[sox4lifeinPA]

It's sad, I really don't know as if I can say one way or another about this cat named "Jesus". I love the guy from what some people say of him, and I think he's a jerk from what others say of him. I don't know how much I can trust the books that are written about him, because if they were written by certain people, or of their kind, then I don't want to believe the words that are written. I really don't think anybody truely knows the guy, we might like to think we do, and we somehow have come to believe that we do, but we really don't. Heck, I live with my wife, spend tons of time with her, tell myself I do know her, but in all reality, there are certain areas of her that I will never know. So, how can I actually say I know Jesus?

 

It's so sad.

 

 

try kleenex.

[southsider2k5]

One statement does not make up for his years of being hypocritical. He needs help, yes, and I hope for his sake and his family's sake he can get it, but i still have no respect for him. This statement is years too late.

Shouldn't this relate to all PEOPLE, not just evangelical ministers?

 

 

Not even close. Haggard is a (hypocritical) bigot. There's a huge difference there.

 

Yeah, if you guys all hate Haggard, you must really be harboring some awesome grudges against the poster child for lying and hypocracy, Bill Clinton right? I mean not only did he lie about his stuff for how long, but he got up on national TV and accused everyone else of lying, unlike Haggard who just had a congregation to lie to, and on top of it all he lied under oath about it. Wow, this guy must be super unpopular right now.

[pierard]

Yeah, if you guys all hate Haggard, you must really be harboring some awesome grudges against the poster child for lying and hypocracy, Bill Clinton right? I mean not only did he lie about his stuff for how long, but he got up on national TV and accused everyone else of lying, unlike Haggard who just had a congregation to lie to, and on top of it all he lied under oath about it. Wow, this guy must be super unpopular right now.

 

Wow. I mean....wow.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Yeah, if you guys all hate Haggard, you must really be harboring some awesome grudges against the poster child for lying and hypocracy, Bill Clinton right? I mean not only did he lie about his stuff for how long, but he got up on national TV and accused everyone else of lying, unlike Haggard who just had a congregation to lie to, and on top of it all he lied under oath about it. Wow, this guy must be super unpopular right now.

Then again, Clinton was never an anti-blow job bigot for years either.

 

I see where you're going with the same lie thing and yes, they both lied. However, Clinton was never actively opposed BJ's for years to the extent of using the White House to get an anti-BJ initiative passed federally or by the states.

 

I have no problem if he wants to engage in paying for gay sex and doing meth. He just shouldn't have had the facade where he was actively involved against the gay movement then to the extent of using his connections with the White House to affect that sort of bigotry.

[Texsox]

Yeah, if you guys all hate Haggard, you must really be harboring some awesome grudges against the poster child for lying and hypocracy, Bill Clinton right? I mean not only did he lie about his stuff for how long, but he got up on national TV and accused everyone else of lying, unlike Haggard who just had a congregation to lie to, and on top of it all he lied under oath about it. Wow, this guy must be super unpopular right now.

 

Actually, the poster boy is "I am not a Crook", the owner of Checkers, the only thing he took in politics, Richard Nixon. And actually I have a problem with both these men. The moral leadership in American keeps declining, that is a problem. I'm not certain if, as some have theorized, that our leaders always had these skeletons, and that we are now willing, actually eager, to display them for all to see, or if we have just lost the ability to choose leaders with sound character. Either way, it is a problem.

 

In the past two Presidential elections, a couple good men where smeared, McCain and Kerry, for the benefit of Bush. We not only accepted the tone of the campaign, but rewarded it.

[Texsox]

Today's Quote

You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out he hates all the same people you do.

 

-Anne Lamott

[FlaSoxxJim]

Today's Quote

You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out he hates all the same people you do.

 

-Anne Lamott

 

Simple, brilliant, and so true.

[Texsox]

Simple, brilliant, and so true.

 

Amazing how God works sometimes, that was sent to me through one of my mailing lists.

[Kid Gleason]

LOVE the Cthulhu campaign sticker, Kid!

 

Thanks!