with all the negativity on Javy last year I forgot over the off-season how good he looked down the stretch...some agonizing losses for sure.

 

I think it is important for the sox not to have a total youth movement in the staff over the next 2-3 years so we will need some consistency.

 

Lets see Gooch and JD signed!!

this summarizes my feelings:

 

Edited March 6, 200719 yr by Wedge

I didn't realize that Missouri was considered a "town."

he's actually from St. Charles, a suburb of St. Louis... My girlfriend's family knows his family so... yeah... it really would be a hometown discount.

Well then who else do you have in there with your "young rotation"

 

We are talking about a guy who's gotten two shots to pitch in the majors and utterly FAILED in the weaker league, and then moves to the tougher league to pitch after utterly failing in triple A, right? I just want to make sure I have my story straight here.

I've said it before and I'll say it again Mark Buehlre will not be signing with the Cardinals this offseason, for a few reasons. It would be a HUGE mistake and he knows it. Pitchers his age fall flat on their face more often than not when leaving to play for their hometown team, just too many distractions.

We are talking about a guy who's gotten two shots to pitch in the majors and utterly FAILED in the weaker league, and then moves to the tougher league to pitch after utterly failing in triple A, right? I just want to make sure I have my story straight here.

ok, so your answer to my question? Or would you like to run around in circles some more?

I didn't realize that Missouri was considered a "town."

 

Buehrle has thrown something like six straight years of 200+ innings and it began to show last season. His style of pitching will help extend his career somewhat, but it certainly doesn't make him a lock for "at least 9 [more] good years". He doesn't have great stuff as is and if he loses even a few mph off of his fastball when he hits 30, he could go downhill very quickly.

 

Yeah. I guess I'm pretty dumb for assuming you could tell what I meant by "Missouri".

 

What makes you think Buehrle isn't entitled to a bad year? He pitched 300 innings in 2005, and I think the length of that season probably wore on him last year. I think he'll have a great season this year.

The thing i think I like is that the Sox spent some money. Wheather you like JV or MB there is a cost certainty here and for three more years after that. Now we have three guys that we know and can set some fixed cost to these future years.

Name me another pitcher besides Santana who could get to 250 who started in 1998-2000.

 

LOL, you're asking somebody to come up with a HOF pitcher over a cherry-picked three-year window. Good one!

with all the negativity on Javy last year I forgot over the off-season how good he looked down the stretch...some agonizing losses for sure.

 

I think it is important for the sox not to have a total youth movement in the staff over the next 2-3 years so we will need some consistency.

 

Lets see Gooch and JD signed!!

Exactly.

 

Once javy moved over to the left side of the rubber and change his hips, he posted 2 consecutive sub 4 ERA's he also increased his K total and lowered his BAA. in those two GREAT months of pitching he went 2-5 with about a 3.6 ERA and 79 k's in 72 IP.

Name me another pitcher besides Santana who could get to 250 who started in 1998-2000. He is the best pitcher by a country mile in this era and could be one of very best of all time.

Zambrano could do it on a good team, same could be said about Oswalt. oh and by the way, its not like guys with that many wins come along every ten seconds like you're seeming to suggest

this summarizes my feelings:

 

That's awesome...

 

Chalk this one up, however, as a deal that I like. It's always good to have a veteran presence in the rotation (you don't want a bunch of rookies or 2nd-year types), and the contract is way below what someone would pay him on the open market. Plus, as alluded to earlier, Buerhle is as good as gone and Contreras is up there in age. That only leaves us with Garland and Vazquez as vets in a few years (assuming Jon reups), hopefully along the likes of Danks, Floyd, Haeger, Gio, Broadway, etc.

Edited March 6, 200719 yr by dasox24

LOL, you're asking somebody to come up with a HOF pitcher over a cherry-picked three-year window. Good one!

 

Ok, name me a pitcher who will win more than 250 besides Santana who started anytime after 1996.

 

There's probably three or four candidates at most.

Yeah. I guess I'm pretty dumb for assuming you could tell what I meant by "Missouri".

 

No, you're "pretty dumb" for equating an entire state to one of its cities.

 

What makes you think Buehrle isn't entitled to a bad year? He pitched 300 innings in 2005, and I think the length of that season probably wore on him last year. I think he'll have a great season this year.

 

What makes you think that Buehrle will automatically knock out NINE good years and hit 225 wins? It's certainly possible and I'd love to see him do it, but you're acting like he's a shoe-in for the HOF. He isn't.

Ok, name me a pitcher who will win more than 250 besides Santana who started anytime after 1996.

 

There's probably three or four candidates at most.

EXACTLY!!!! they dont come around very often - how hard is that for you to understand!?

Ok, name me a pitcher who will win more than 250 besides Santana who started anytime after 1996.

 

There's probably three or four candidates at most.

 

That's because HOF pitchers aren't born every three years like clockwork.

EXACTLY!!!! they dont come around very often - how hard is that for you to understand!?

 

And my point is that Buehrle is one of those candidates.

Zambrano could do it on a good team, same could be said about Oswalt. oh and by the way, its not like guys with that many wins come along every ten seconds like you're seeming to suggest

Not to mention Zito, Sabathia and Mulder (if he can somehow get healthy and quick)

No, you're "pretty dumb" for equating an entire state to one of its cities.

What makes you think that Buehrle will automatically knock out NINE good years and hit 225 wins? It's certainly possible and I'd love to see him do it, but you're acting like he's a shoe-in for the HOF. He isn't.

 

Okay, if you want this thread to devolve into personal attacks, I guess we can go down that road.

 

This forum desperately needs a killfile function.

That's awesome...

 

Chalk this one up, however, as a deal that I like. It's always good to have a veteran presence in the rotation (you don't want a bunch of rookies or 2nd-year types), and the contract is way below what someone would pay him on the open market. Plus, as alluded to earlier, Buerhle is as good as gone and Contreras is up there in age. That only leaves us with Garland and Vazquez as vets in a few years (assuming Jon reups), hopefully along the likes of Danks, Floyd, Haeger, Gio, Broadway, etc.

 

I still, somewhat irrationally, despise Vazquez. I hopes he makes me fall in love this season...

And my point is that Buehrle is one of those candidates.

 

What makes him a HOF candidate? The fact that he's had a very good career so far, but isn't on the same level as the league's dominant pitchers?

Nice move by KW. I wonder if the deal was done before or after he pitched today (3IP, 6H, 4ER, 3K).

And my point is that Buehrle is one of those candidates.

yes, he has the potential to reach that number of wins, congratulations, but to say he's a lock is completely untrue. things can happen, leagues can adjust, he could lose his stuff, 4.99 years dont just happen randomly... look at Z, Santana, Oswalt, Pettitte, numbers like that arent just random and go away.

yes, he has the potential to reach that number of wins, congratulations, but to say he's a lock is completely untrue. things can happen, leagues can adjust, he could lose his stuff, 4.99 years dont just happen randomly... look at Z, Santana, Oswalt, Pettitte, numbers like that arent just random and go away.

 

I never said he was a lock. I said he was one of the candidates from his era.

 

He's definitely in the top ten-fifteen pitchers of the last 7-8 years, in terms of career numbers.

 

His sheer durability may end up making him into a guy who has a freakishly long, maddux-like, relatively injury free career.

 

(note: I'm not comparing Buehrle's STYLE to Maddux's)

 

And in any case, the ENTIRE reason to bring him up was to refute the claim that paying 3/33 for vazquez was somehow better than 3/45 for buehrle (yes, we all know it'll probably be 6/100 in actualilty). vaz has very mediocre career numbers compared to buehrle. it's not like you're not getting anything for that extra money.

I never said he was a lock. I said he was one of the candidates from his era.

 

He's definitely in the top ten-fifteen pitchers of the last 7-8 years, in terms of career numbers.

 

A Top 10-15 pitcher isn't a HOFer.

 

His sheer durability may end up making him into a guy who has a freakishly long, maddux-like, relatively injury free career.

 

Yes, it MAY. But he's not even 28 yet, so I don't know why you're talking about him having 9 more really good seasons and 225-250 wins.

Edited March 6, 200719 yr by WCSox