Yes, and several players aren't bright enough to apply the direction they've been given. Or talented enough.

 

But I do agree that making coaching changes solely for the reason of shaking things up should be a consideration. Sometimes it's a fresh voice.

I was thinking of an example... who in their right mind thinks that Juan Uribe could easily be coached? I mean, the guy clearly knows what to do, he occasionally even does it (staying back, aiming for right centerfield on a fastball, and pulling the breakers). But from what I have seen (and I am not in the dugout of course), it seems like he is just not coachable.

 

I was thinking of an example... who in their right mind thinks that Juan Uribe could easily be coached? I mean, the guy clearly knows what to do, he occasionally even does it (staying back, aiming for right centerfield on a fastball, and pulling the breakers). But from what I have seen (and I am not in the dugout of course), it seems like he is just not coachable.

 

 

You don't get to the major leagues by not being able to be coached.

 

The problem with the Sox, IMO, is that since '05 things from the players perspective are all out of wack. Kinda like the '85 Bears still think their s*** don't stink...

 

 

I was thinking of an example... who in their right mind thinks that Juan Uribe could easily be coached? I mean, the guy clearly knows what to do, he occasionally even does it (staying back, aiming for right centerfield on a fastball, and pulling the breakers). But from what I have seen (and I am not in the dugout of course), it seems like he is just not coachable.

 

NorthSide, you've correctly identified one of the biggest problems. Not a bad guy by any means and can really pick it. But he's been told and helped and coached. And it's not happening for him.

You don't get to the major leagues by not being able to be coached.

 

The problem with the Sox, IMO, is that since '05 things from the players perspective are all out of wack. Kinda like the '85 Bears still think their s*** don't stink...

But... I think sometimes a player can get the majors or even the minors and THEN decide they are too good to be coached. Maybe or maybe not the case with Juan, I don't know. But I feel pretty certain it happens.

 

But... I think sometimes a player can get the majors or even the minors and THEN decide they are too good to be coached. Maybe or maybe not the case with Juan, I don't know. But I feel pretty certain it happens.

 

 

Hense the comparison of the '05 Sox to the '85 Bears.

 

I believe they are ABLE to be coached just fine... after the stick removal and q-tip demonstration, of course.

Hense the comparison of the '05 Sox to the '85 Bears.

 

I believe they are ABLE to be coached just fine... after the stick removal and q-tip demonstration, of course.

 

Nice.

They all can be coached just not all will apply it. Uribe is one that comes to mind about being more selective at the plate. I would guess that Juan's strength is feilding and some power, but not ever the batting average. I liked Greg Walker as a player, but maybe a change in the hitting coach is warranted since this teams hitting has fallen so bad.

Clearly AJ's admission of fault is secret code for "Walker doesn't know how to prepare us".

 

"Probably my fault", in my book, doesn't equate to AJ taking the blame for this. Rather, it seems like he wants to just doesn't want it to become a big deal in the press. This isn't the first time that we've heard of certain scouting issues not being as accurate as they should be from some of the coaches. I don't think Walker is to blame for the offense struggling this year, but I also think it's insane that he still has a job.

 

I think one thing we'll all agree on is that we don't want to see this turn into a finger-pointing situation where people on the team start to blame other people for the team struggles.

Edited August 27, 200718 yr by fathom

NorthSide, you've correctly identified one of the biggest problems. Not a bad guy by any means and can really pick it. But he's been told and helped and coached. And it's not happening for him.

 

You think he's gone this offseason? I'm of the opinion that he won't be back.

"Probably my fault", in my book, doesn't equate to AJ taking the blame for this. Rather, it seems like he wants to just doesn't want it to become a big deal in the press. This isn't the first time that we've heard of certain scouting issues not being as accurate as they should be from some of the coaches. I don't think Walker is to blame for the offense struggling this year, but I also think it's insane that he still has a job.

 

I think one thing we'll all agree on is that we don't want to see this turn into a finger-pointing situation where people on the team start to blame other people for the team struggles.

 

Your opinion is noted. As I do often I'm going to go with the words from folks mouths as what they mean rather than reaching for something else.

 

As for your second comment. No, I wont agree to that at all. Passing the buck is bulls***. Own up to your crap or hit the road. I find it funny that you comment about not wanting "finger pointing" yet all most of this board does is "finger point" at the coaches, the manager, and the gm. A tad bit hypocritical, IMO.

You think he's gone this offseason? I'm of the opinion that he won't be back.

 

Yes I think Uribe will be gone and they'll trade for an established SS. Furcal, Tejada, Renteria, someone like that.

Yes I think Uribe will be gone and they'll trade for an established SS. Furcal, Tejada, Renteria, someone like that.

There really is a solid possibility that Renteria will be available this offseason, as the Braves to seem to have a replacement waiting and only 1 year left on ERent's deal. That said...if they're looking for Jon Garland for him, they won't get it from me, given that I think you have to value pitching significantly above position players.

I don't know how to feel about this. Would I be surprised that our players haven't been properly informed of the other pitcher's repoitoires? No. But I don't want to put Walker down like that. I doubt he's just sitting there stealing money and not doing anything. I don't think dude's a good hitting coach and he wasn't a good hitter, either, and you can look at who he struggled with as a hitter and who our guys struggle with you and you might draw some conclusions. But no, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't properly inform our players. But then again, Pierzynski's the guy who allegedly played cards and showed up late (or not at all) to a pitcher's meeting, so who knows? For Pierzynski to pop off about how he didn't know that Delcarmen threw a cut fastball sounds b****y and unnecessary, especially in the dugout. And I don't tend to give AJ the benefit of the doubt on anything like that. So who knows who's right and not.

There really is a solid possibility that Renteria will be available this offseason, as the Braves to seem to have a replacement waiting and only 1 year left on ERent's deal. That said...if they're looking for Jon Garland for him, they won't get it from me, given that I think you have to value pitching significantly above position players.

 

Schuerholz will want Javy, IMO, as he's always liked him and going into the offseason, now that Garland has really reverted, and given that they'll be more interested in a really solid pitcher instead of an innings-eating third fourth starter who can be a little better sometimes. Some people were tossing around Escobar+Jo Jo Reyes for either of these guys. I told them, "No, I don't think so," over on Talking Chop but it could be a start. I personally really like Lillibridge, but who knows what'll happen.

 

One of Lillibridge, Renteria and Escobar will go.

"Probably my fault", in my book, doesn't equate to AJ taking the blame for this. Rather, it seems like he wants to just doesn't want it to become a big deal in the press. This isn't the first time that we've heard of certain scouting issues not being as accurate as they should be from some of the coaches. I don't think Walker is to blame for the offense struggling this year, but I also think it's insane that he still has a job.

 

I think one thing we'll all agree on is that we don't want to see this turn into a finger-pointing situation where people on the team start to blame other people for the team struggles.

 

Saying "probably my fault" is likely about as close as you'd hear A.J. Pierzynski saying "I was wrong".

 

My concern with Walker in this situation is he probably shouldn't have let it escalate into a dugout shouting match. Usually there are better ways to handle it, like in private. That said, maybe Walker felt the need to clear the air in front of the team, seeing as AJ raised the issue in the dugout initially. It should also be noted these types of things happen a lot all across baseball. It's worth talking about, but not worth an overreaction.

 

Your next two sentences confuse me. You indicate it's not the first we heard of scouting issues not being accurate from some of the coaches. To me that says you believe AJ here. I don't know about that, AJ has a well known tendancy to exaggerate. But we will probably never know.

 

The part about Walker ... you don't think it's his fault the offense is so bad yet you think it's insane he still has a job. So it's not his fault but he should be fired?

 

I wouldn't be shocked if he falls on his own sword (resigns after the season). He doesn't need the job, he has money. If he thinks another voice (as hitting coach) will be more effective for the White Sox organization, he will step aside.

As for your second comment. No, I wont agree to that at all. Passing the buck is bulls***. Own up to your crap or hit the road. I find it funny that you comment about not wanting "finger pointing" yet all most of this board does is "finger point" at the coaches, the manager, and the gm. A tad bit hypocritical, IMO.

 

Yeah, but we're also not supposed to be professional athletes/executives. I thought my post you responded to was meant to say that the last thing we want to see happen is players/coaches on the team starting to blame others. This was a total organizational failure this year.

The part about Walker ... you don't think it's his fault the offense is so bad yet you think it's insane he still has a job. So it's not his fault but he should be fired?

 

It was like what you mentioned earlier....maybe fresh blood was what some of these players needed. If these players, like Uribe, are not paying attention to the coaches, then either you have to find a coach they'll listen to, or get rid of them. I was very upset this year that we basically used Duane Shaffer as the scapegoat, and did nothing to even try to spark this team.

I was very upset this year that we basically used Duane Shaffer as the scapegoat, and did nothing to even try to spark this team.

 

You shouldn't be upset at all. That was a move thats been brewing for quite a while. Shaffer and Williams have never been totally on the same page. Williams wants prospects with potentially higher ceilings, Shaffer wanted safer picks, especially in part because he knew Williams had a propensity to trade them.

 

Shaffer was not a scapegoat for this season. The results this season are not even a small part of why he got let go and there will be more changes behind the scenes. You and many others on this board should be glad they made that change. To quote the old Cream song "I'm So Glad".

You shouldn't be upset at all. That was a move thats been brewing for quite a while. Shaffer and Williams have never been totally on the same page. Williams wants prospects with potentially higher ceilings, Shaffer wanted safer picks, especially in part because he knew Williams had a propensity to trade them.

 

Shaffer was not a scapegoat for this season. The results this season are not even a small part of why he got let go and there will be more changes behind the scenes. You and many others on this board should be glad they made that change. To quote the old Cream song "I'm So Glad".

 

Trust me, the scouting has pissed me off for a long time now. I'm thrilled he's gone....it's just that it's scary that no one else within the organization (a coach like Walker) was let go to try and shake things up. That shows me that JR, KW, and Ozzie are putting all the blame on themselves or the players. If that's the case, then there better be some massive personnel changes on the roster.

If that's the case, then there better be some massive personnel changes on the roster.

 

I'm not sure why people think there won't be, there will. These guys know it's been a disaster and they won't sit still. They tried to make some moves at the deadline and I'm not talking about Dye. Dye was a guy they were willing to move but only at a certain price, that's because they were pretty sure they could re-sign him, and they did.

 

Not only will there be personnel moves but you will also see some player development shuffling and in my opinion a few people brought in from outside the organization.

I'm not sure why people think there won't be, there will. These guys know it's been a disaster and they won't sit still. They tried to make some moves at the deadline and I'm not talking about Dye. Dye was a guy they were willing to move but only at a certain price, that's because they were pretty sure they could re-sign him, and they did.

 

Not only will there be personnel moves but you will also see some player development shuffling and in my opinion a few people brought in from outside the organization.

 

I hope so!

 

But I don't expect it, per se. I hope for it, I want it, but ever since the Administration brought back Podsednik, I know I can't count on them to do the obvious thing. I can't wait until we sign Carl Everett to spell Thome at DH.

The part about Walker ... you don't think it's his fault the offense is so bad yet you think it's insane he still has a job. So it's not his fault but he should be fired?

 

I know what fathom is saying and actually agree with it. I don't blame Walker for the offensive woes this season -- that should be expected when you're fielding three well-below average hitters (Erstad, Podsednik, Uribe) along with some older players who, while still good, may be prone to injury and/or slumps.

 

That being said -- this team hasn't hit the ball well going back more than a year now. In 2006 the offense "quit" (I don't mean they stopped trying, I just mean they collectively sucked) after July. And if Greg Walker's "techniques" aren't producing results, how can the Sox justify keeping him on board? We've seen teams like the Mets fire their hitting coach despite the fact that they've performed significantly better than the Sox.

 

I'm usually not one who advocates change just for changes sake, but you have to go back a full calender year to the last time the Sox offense was actually resectable.

I'm surprised Mariotti didn't jump on the AJ/Cooper incident as another example of Ozzie's team gone out of control and asking for Oz's head.

 

Guess he was too busy writing about Rex.

Yeah, but we're also not supposed to be professional athletes/executives. I thought my post you responded to was meant to say that the last thing we want to see happen is players/coaches on the team starting to blame others. This was a total organizational failure this year.

 

No, my response was aimed at you alluding to Walker habitually not preparing the team even after AJ seemed to take responisbility for not listening.

 

 

I'm surprised Mariotti didn't jump on the AJ/Cooper incident as another example of Ozzie's team gone out of control and asking for Oz's head.

 

Guess he was too busy writing about Rex.

 

 

Maybe he's waiting for a AJ/Cooper incident to write about...