Floyd's arm beginning to convert some believers

[DBAHO]

Don Cooper and Ozzie Guillen want to have some peace of mind every time Gavin Floyd takes the mound.

 

Right now, it's certainly not there.

 

They can't help but wonder whether the right-hander will live up to his electric stuff or get blown up during any given start.

 

Floyd is beginning to make a believer of his pitching coach and maybe will convince his manager soon.

 

"There's a lot of improvement he's made from spring training to now," Cooper said. "I'm seeing it more and more on the sidelines, more and more in the pregame and more and more in the game. We're hoping that improvement and consistency continues."

 

Floyd's recent roll continued Monday night when he limited the Cleveland Indians to three runs (two earned) in 6 1/3 innings for his third consecutive quality start, this time with a steady rain coming down.

 

Floyd has a 2.95 ERA over his last three starts and has struck out 14 in 18 1/3 innings.

 

Guillen, though, still isn't sold.

 

"I still wonder. I still wonder," Guillen said before the game. "I'm happy every time he comes out and does good. One thing about it, he's confusing us, at least me. He's confusing me because one day he's unbelievable and the next day he's all over the place, and that's why one day you say you don't know if he's ready but then five days later you say, 'Wow, this kid has everything.' ''

 

Floyd will start as part of a modified rotation for the rest of the season -- he will pitch depending on which starter is given a rest or what the off days dictate -- and that will be his September audition.

 

If that goes well, the Sox will have more offseason options.

 

They could trade Jon Garland and his $12 million salary or try to find a buyer for Jose Contreras, who is due $10 million in each of the next two seasons. With either move, the Sox could then insert Floyd into the rotation.

 

But first things first. The Sox need to see what Floyd can bring every fifth day.

 

"Consistency. Making us feel more comfortable every five or six days when he gets the ball," Cooper said of what he needs to see from the right-hander to believe Floyd could be in the rotation full-time next year.

 

"Can we believe and the team believe when he goes out there we have a chance to win? He's on his way to that. He's pitched well enough to start earning that. With continued success, he has a chance to solidify that even more."

 

 

[klaus kinski]

Its hard to gauge consistency with garbage like Cintron & Gonzalez playing third, Erstad in the field, and Richar apparently regressing at second.

[southsider2k5]

Floyd has the best arm on the team, assuming Contreras doesn't find a fountian of youth somewhere. The kid is showing signs of improvement, as he has shutdown a couple of real good offenses in Cleveland and Detroit. He needs to work on his testicular fortitude and practice out of the stretch. Overall I like the progress we are getting, and I can now see him in the rotation next year.

[Gregory Pratt]

Floyd has the best arm on the team, assuming Contreras doesn't find a fountian of youth somewhere. The kid is showing signs of improvement, as he has shutdown a couple of real good offenses in Cleveland and Detroit. He needs to work on his testicular fortitude and practice out of the stretch. Overall I like the progress we are getting, and I can now see him in the rotation next year.

 

How can people say that a guy whose arm lags in the stretch at the major league level has a great arm? And he throws 91-93 most the time, 87-89 from the stretch, with a good curveball, no changeup, lousy slider. But what, exactly, makes him a great arm? 91-93 and no ability to pitch from the stretch. Yeah.

 

I, for one, am happy that Ozzie doesn't buy it yet.

[Rowand44]

I, for one, am happy that Ozzie doesn't buy it yet.

Ya well you openly said here that you were rooting against him before he even threw a single pitch for this team. You never gave him a chance. He's shown he has a solid fastball(91-93 is perfectly fine when you can move it a bit like he can), he has a good curveball yet an inconsistant one and while he rarely uses his changeup, he has flashed one from time to time just to show teams he has one. IF(and it's still a big if) he can gain some consistancy in his curve, he can be at least a league average starter for this club imo. That would be absolutely huge because it does indeed give us more options in the offseason.

[NorthSideSox72]

Floyd's August/September starts:

 

08/05: 6.0 IP, 7 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 6 K

08/11: 4.0 IP, 7 H, 7 ER, 1 BB, 2 K

08/28: 6.0 IP, 6 H, 3 ER, 2 BB, 4 K

09/05: 6.0 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 6 K

09/10: 6.1 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 4 K

 

Totals for those 5 starts:

4.13 ERA

1.34 WHIP

22/7 K/BB

 

That includes the awful start on 8/11.

 

His last three starts:

2.95 ERA

1.25 WHIP

14/6 K/BB

 

I am starting to feel a little better about Floyd joining the rotation in 2008. If he can keep this up for his last couple or three starts, I'd say he should have the inside track.

 

His lack of velocity from the stretch, and his inability to hold runners on, still scare me though.

 

[Dick Allen]

Ya well you openly said here that you were rooting against him before he even threw a single pitch for this team. You never gave him a chance. He's shown he has a solid fastball(91-93 is perfectly fine when you can move it a bit like he can), he has a good curveball yet an inconsistant one and while he rarely uses his changeup, he has flashed one from time to time just to show teams he has one. IF(and it's still a big if) he can gain some consistancy in his curve, he can be at least a league average starter for this club imo. That would be absolutely huge because it does indeed give us more options in the offseason.

It would be very foolish to make Floyd part of 2008's rotation based on a few September starts, totalling ignoring what has gone on before, not just this year but the 3 previous seasons as well. He's not very good. Its funny that Floyd's fastball is solid when he's 91-93, but if Contreras throws 91-93 he's washed up. Like Contreras, he must keep people off base because they run at will off of him. I'm not buying his success.

[NorthSideSox72]

It would be very foolish to make Floyd part of 2008's rotation based on a few September starts, totalling ignoring what has gone on before, not just this year but the 3 previous seasons as well. He's not very good. Its funny that Floyd's fastball is solid when he's 91-93, but if Contreras throws 91-93 he's washed up. Like Contreras, he must keep people off base because they run at will off of him. I'm not buying his success.

So, in other words, we should all not ignore his previous debacles, but you are going to ignore his recent success? Got it.

 

[Gregory Pratt]

Ya well you openly said here that you were rooting against him before he even threw a single pitch for this team. You never gave him a chance. He's shown he has a solid fastball(91-93 is perfectly fine when you can move it a bit like he can), he has a good curveball yet an inconsistant one and while he rarely uses his changeup, he has flashed one from time to time just to show teams he has one. IF(and it's still a big if) he can gain some consistancy in his curve, he can be at least a league average starter for this club imo. That would be absolutely huge because it does indeed give us more options in the offseason.

 

I declared awhile ago that his most recent starts haven't been that impressive and claimed that, I'm sure, many people in baseball agreed. Well, Ozzie does, and I'm glad for that. People here have said, and I've heard, that Ozzie really doesn't think Floyd is worth much but KW forces him on him. Truth is that Floyd is not good. His fastball is okay, but nothing special and definitely not electric, especially when it dies from the stretch.

[Kyyle23]

So, in other words, we should all not ignore his previous debacles, but you are going to ignore his recent success? Got it.

 

It doesnt matter what you say, the argument will continue back and forth. The title of the article holds true:

 

"Floyds arm beginning to convert some believers", not all

 

I declared awhile ago that his most recent starts haven't been that impressive and claimed that, I'm sure, many people in baseball agreed. Well, Ozzie does, and I'm glad for that. People here have said, and I've heard, that Ozzie really doesn't think Floyd is worth much but KW forces him on him. Truth is that Floyd is not good. His fastball is okay, but nothing special and definitely not electric, especially when it dies from the stretch.

 

You are sure? Like who?

Edited September 11, 2007 by kyyle23

[Gregory Pratt]

Umm, like Ozzie.

[Kyyle23]

Umm, like Ozzie.

 

Yet he continues to give him starts. curious

[southsider2k5]

So, in other words, we should all not ignore his previous debacles, but you are going to ignore his recent success? Got it.

 

Ignore what makes me look bad, and tout what makes me look good.

 

Gavin Floyd is the new Jon Garland. Hopefully the final result is the samething, and not Kip Wells.

[NorthSideSox72]

Umm, like Ozzie.

You keep saying that, but I haven't seen Ozzie say anything negative about his starts since his last debacle in early August - which of course was deserved. Where are you getting that Ozzie doesn't believe what he sees in Floyd? Do you have a quote or something?

 

[Gregory Pratt]

THAT ARTICLE!

 

Says that Ozzie isn't sold which is polite.

 

Yet he continues to give him starts. curious

 

S'not his call. Ozzie already tried moving him to the pen and was overruled.

[Gregory Pratt]

But hey, I'm going to leave this thread to the "believers" and the "converted"

[NorthSideSox72]

THAT ARTICLE!

 

Says that Ozzie isn't sold which is polite.

S'not his call. Ozzie already tried moving him to the pen and was overruled.

The "I Still Wonder" quote? OK, I figured there had been something more than that. Yes, he still isn't sure, nor should he be. That is different than saying he doesn't believe it. That is just Ozzie being smart - not trusting its permanent, and keeping Gavin on his toes.

 

[witesoxfan]

But hey, I'm going to leave this thread to the "believers" and the "converted"

 

It's really not that hard to be a league average starter.

[Rowand44]

THAT ARTICLE!

 

Says that Ozzie isn't sold which is polite.

S'not his call. Ozzie already tried moving him to the pen and was overruled.

I'm not sold on him yet, doesn't mean I think he's garbage.

[NorthSideSox72]

But hey, I'm going to leave this thread to the "believers" and the "converted"

Just to be clear, I'm not ready to crown the guy either. I am simply willing to see what he can do, and therefore have been hoping he'd get this opportunity, just like I am happy to see a lot of the other younger players (Owens, Fields, etc.) get their time in. And so far, given the opportunity to start with some regularity, he has done better than I expected he would. In other words, I feel the same way Ozzie says he does in that quote. Now let's see how he finishes the season.

 

[Rowand44]

It would be very foolish to make Floyd part of 2008's rotation based on a few September starts, totalling ignoring what has gone on before, not just this year but the 3 previous seasons as well. He's not very good. Its funny that Floyd's fastball is solid when he's 91-93, but if Contreras throws 91-93 he's washed up. Like Contreras, he must keep people off base because they run at will off of him. I'm not buying his success.

You keep saying September starts like because it's September that they don't mean anything. That's just wrong. Great, so a 21, 22 and 23 year old pitcher struggled, I know it's impossible at the ripe old age of 24 to improve, but hey look...Gavin is improving. You pull out some odd comparisons at times, a 24 year old pitcher who is clearly getting better to a pitcher who is about 84 and clearly getting worse, no comparison there at all.

[Yossarian]

I've been one of Floyd's biggest detractors from the get go. It does seem like he's made some adjustments to that unbalanced motion and release point of his. In 05 Cooper was a genius, in 07 he'd morphed into a dunce like Walker. Maybe he can start being that pitching guru genius again. Danks had some decent outings earlier in the year, and now Floyd is showing some at the end of the year. I liked Danks a lot more than Floyd, but right now I'm just hoping that one of them can become a dependable starter. Both still have a long way to go in my estimation.

[southsider2k5]

The "I Still Wonder" quote? OK, I figured there had been something more than that. Yes, he still isn't sure, nor should he be. That is different than saying he doesn't believe it. That is just Ozzie being smart - not trusting its permanent, and keeping Gavin on his toes.

 

Because we all know Ozzie has a problem saying what he means... Good lord that it some creative reading. If Ozzie doesn't like a guy, he won't hestitate to throw him under the bus, get into the bus, start the bus up, and procede to drive over the player about 50 times.

[Rowand44]

It's really not that hard to be a league average starter.

It's kind of funny to see where Gavin's era as a starter would rank in the AL if he pitched a full season.

[Harry Chappas]

I put Floyd and Danks in the same category. I am not exactly sold on Danks or Floyd neither has electric stuff but if they throw strikes and learn how to work hitters they could be 3/4 guys.

 

The begining of their careers mirror that of Jon Garland who is a 3/4 guy.

 

I find it amazing how people will give up so easily on 24 year pitchers. I could see if there were health issues but he appears to be a guy that can give you innings.