Someone said 80% of SoxTalk thinks KW is awful/should be fired. I'm curious what the actual numbers are. And I'm voting for mediocre, not "awful".

3 choices for fired, and only one for giving him more time?

 

I would've chose something along the lines of: KW is mediocre, give him one more year.

I think KW has been good, but now is mediocre. IMO, he relies too much on gut than stats. I would be curious to see what Rick Hahn could do as GM being a more analytical guy. He would be more based off straight stats than pure what you see which is more KW. It is interesting that they are the GM duo being so different in styles.

Edited December 23, 200718 yr by maggsmaggs

Mediocre and fired. Time for a new direction.

Mediocre and fired. Time for a new direction.

That's what I went with. Forever thankful for 2005... forever saddened at how long it will take to recover.

This is the same KW who put the pieces together to win the world series in 05, which included getting rid of Clee/Maggz. Than the following off-season was able to add a guy like Thome and Vazquez which should have made us better and many thought he was one of the better GM's in the league at the time. Now.... because players didnt perform its the GM's fault? I stand by KW till the end, I think he is still better than a lot of other guys out there.

I think KW has been good, but now is mediocre. IMO, he relies too much on gut than stats. I would be curious to see what Rick Hahn could do as GM bekng a more analytical guy. He would be more based off straight stats than pure what you see which is more KW. It is interesting that they are the GM duo being so different in styles.

If he relied on stats the moves that lead to 2005 wouldn't have happened.

If he relied on stats the moves that lead to 2005 wouldn't have happened.

 

uh he said kw relies more on gut than stats

Well then. I'm an idiot. Thanks for clarifying.

 

 

No I understood what you meant. maggsmaggs used KW's reliance on gut as a criticism. But you're saying if KW relied on stats instead of his gut, he wouldn't have assembled the 2005 team which won the Series.

No I understood what you meant. maggsmaggs used KW's reliance on gut as a criticism. But you're saying if KW relied on stats instead of his gut, he wouldn't have assembled the 2005 team which won the Series.

No that's not what I meant, but its a valid point. I legit read it as Kenny Williams relies on stats too much, because I misread his post.

 

I could have easily meant what you said, as its a good point. Using his gut was a good thing and lead to '05.

 

I wonder how joesaiditstrue knew what I was thinking.

 

Somebody hold me. I'm scared.

 

* looks out the window*

This is the same KW who put the pieces together to win the world series in 05, which included getting rid of Clee/Maggz. Than the following off-season was able to add a guy like Thome and Vazquez which should have made us better and many thought he was one of the better GM's in the league at the time. Now.... because players didnt perform its the GM's fault? I stand by KW till the end, I think he is still better than a lot of other guys out there.

A blind squirrell finds a nut every once and a while, so i wouldn't totally base 05 on kW's brains. I would say that lady luck had something to do with it too.

Edited December 23, 200718 yr by sayitaintso

This is the same KW who put the pieces together to win the world series in 05, which included getting rid of Clee/Maggz. Than the following off-season was able to add a guy like Thome and Vazquez which should have made us better and many thought he was one of the better GM's in the league at the time. Now.... because players didnt perform its the GM's fault? I stand by KW till the end, I think he is still better than a lot of other guys out there.

 

The most baffling part of KW's attack post World Series is the pitching. For a team that won the World Series solely on pitching, we suddenly have one of the poorer pitching staffs in the league.

 

I think KW would be a good GM if he was able to develop talent from within. He can't succeed without available talent to support his ultra-aggressive style. But since the cupboard is bare, and not getting much better, it's time to bring in someone that cultivates young talent.

Edited December 23, 200718 yr by sircaffey

I'd be curious what explanation folks have that took the "KW is good but should be fired" option. I don't get that one at all.

 

I'd be curious what explanation folks have that took the "KW is good but should be fired" option. I don't get that one at all.

Maybe he is good but its just not working in spite of his talent, so its time for a change. That's all I can think of.

I picked that he is good and should have more time.

 

More accurate of my feeling however is he is decent and should have more time.

I know it's living in the past, but I can't yet fire a guy (as if I had a choice) that gave us a world title.

I hope he gets his head out of his ass and starts making some good trades/talent evaluations.

Those relievers he brought in really stunk.

At this point, it's clear that despite the positivist complaint about how SoxTalk is negative and sees the sky as falling and hates the organization, most people here are not opposed to KW and in fact a majority likes him/thinks he's doing good. Some are critical, yes, and that's how I had a hunch that there was a lot more positivity here than they'd give themselves credit for: because everytime I say KW is bad, or Floyd sucks, or the scouts who did X, Y, or Z suck, there are several posts badgering me for it, and with positive things ("if we can get 200 innings of quality pithcing from Floyd") nobody but me or DA comes in and says, Wait a minute...let's not go...nuts...

 

This was just a little poll I wanted to make to see where SoxTalk generally stands.

Just like several others have said, he won us a title, that is something that nobody had been able to do in Chicago (both sides) for the previous 90 years so I'll give him a grace period, he has earned the right to a couple more years to get the team back in order. If he can't do it by 2009, then I think its time to move on

Just like several others have said, he won us a title, that is something that nobody had been able to do in Chicago (both sides) for the previous 90 years so I'll give him a grace period, he has earned the right to a couple more years to get the team back in order. If he can't do it by 2009, then I think its time to move on

 

He didn't really do it. It was luck. Look at the roster. It had no amazing talent. Every guy just played with good clubhouse chemistry in 05'. He should be fired pronto.

How about he's mediocre but I'm willing to see how his 2008 team plays?

Right now I think he is doing so so. One more year like we just went through then he should be run out of town.

He didn't really do it. It was luck. Look at the roster. It had no amazing talent. Every guy just played with good clubhouse chemistry in 05'. He should be fired pronto.

So it was luck in 2005 (despite being in first wire to wire, having the best record in baseball most of the season, and going 11-1 in the post season). OK. Then was 2007 luck too, just bad luck?

 

At this point, it's clear that despite the positivist complaint about how SoxTalk is negative and sees the sky as falling and hates the organization, most people here are not opposed to KW and in fact a majority likes him/thinks he's doing good. Some are critical, yes, and that's how I had a hunch that there was a lot more positivity here than they'd give themselves credit for: because everytime I say KW is bad, or Floyd sucks, or the scouts who did X, Y, or Z suck, there are several posts badgering me for it, and with positive things ("if we can get 200 innings of quality pithcing from Floyd") nobody but me or DA comes in and says, Wait a minute...let's not go...nuts...

 

This was just a little poll I wanted to make to see where SoxTalk generally stands.

Roughly half the board wants KW fired (thanks to your interestingly worded poll - 3 fired options and 1 not). It seems to me that makes the site pretty much evenly split on KW. Not really a surprise, is it?

 

And if you wonder why people "badger" you about your negativity, look at the post you made recently when asked what you DO like about the Sox. It was mostly about the ballpark and fan incentives - virtually nothing about the team or its players or coaches. You pretty much proved to the readers of the site what many suspected - you really don't like the Sox. You just enjoy berating them.

 

Someone said 80% of SoxTalk thinks KW is awful/should be fired. I'm curious what the actual numbers are. And I'm voting for mediocre, not "awful".

 

 

This is simple. He gets 1 more year. He chose to embark on going for it in 2008 instead of rebuildiung. If this team comes out and isn't a legit contender in '08 he needs to go. If come Sept, they're under .500 he should be canned right then and there.

 

 

 

Bob

Roughly half the board wants KW fired (thanks to your interestingly worded poll - 3 fired options and 1 not). It seems to me that makes the site pretty much evenly split on KW. Not really a surprise, is it?

 

And if you wonder why people "badger" you about your negativity, look at the post you made recently when asked what you DO like about the Sox. It was mostly about the ballpark and fan incentives - virtually nothing about the team or its players or coaches. You pretty much proved to the readers of the site what many suspected - you really don't like the Sox. You just enjoy berating them.

 

 

That's a rather dark post. "You pretty much proved to the readers of the site what many suspected - you really don't like the Sox. You just enjoy berating them." That can be said to any of the "negative" posters on the site and I accept your right to criticize me like that, but I reject it categorically. "You don't like the Sox". I suppose one could go into the Filibuster and say, "From what the criticisms you have of American government, it's clear you don't love your country. You just enjoy berating it." Right? I'm simply not one to parrot optimism if I don't tihnk the situation warrants it; you're completely ignoring all the times I've defended the white Sox and especially Ozzie Guillen over the years. Besides that, what I do isn't something I'd characterize as "berating". I don't post, "KW sux!!!!111" and leave it at that. I criticize and I think I do it reasonably, not trashily or lustily. If you disagree, that's your right but my criticisms are a far cry from "KW is doo doo!"

 

I was asked, specifically, in that thread -- or thought I was being asked specifically -- about the "organization" which is far more than the players or team. But there are several answers to that:

 

1. I don't like Kenny Williams; to me, he's Bill Bavasi with an attitude problem.

2. I don't like Jerry Reinsdorf. ("Eat your hearts out, you're scum!" to Jimmy Piersall and Harry Caray; there's more, but that might be the pithiest way to explain it.)

3. I don't like the scouts that told KW about Nick Masset's "fast"ball (that's just example 1).

 

I don't think I was being asked about players; I didn't think I was being asked about players. Players aren't quite what I think of when I think of "the organization" or "the machine". As for "likes": the question already conceded Ozzie Guillen as what I really like from the organization. I listed that the org. is generally good to its fans, or tries to be (from a non-baseball perspective there's little faulting them). If you want me to list what players I like, I can do that. I love rooting for Buehrle, Danks, Contreras, Thornton, Jenks, and MacDougal (even though two of those relievers are bad); I root for the rest of the guys on the pitching staff, even though I don't think they're good or they don't strike a chord with me. Players? Well, Thome, even if I appreciate him a little less than maybe I should. I like Fields. Let's put it this way -- there's no one on the team I particularly dislike except maybe AJ, but there are few guys I really like. I've always thought Crede was a great guy to root for, easy to root for. Lots of guys who are easy to root for on the team but that I'm not generally all that fond of except for the starters. Then again, all opver baseball if you ask me my favorite players you'll get pitcher after pitcher after pitcher.

 

Does that clarify anything? Do you still think I don't love my White Sox?