Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 pay particular close attention to the comment made by one scout.. i would like to know who that scout is........hmmmmm..... Thursday, July 3 Alomar's downfall a total shocker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Jayson Stark ESPN.com Back on Dec. 11, 2001, the day the Cleveland Indians traded Roberto Alomar, Indians GM Mark Shapiro joked: "I might need a flak jacket when I get off the plane." That's how people viewed Robby Alomar back then, just 19 months ago. The very same day, in the very same room, the GM who had just acquired Alomar, Steve Phillips, uttered these words: "Robby gives us a level of excitement and credibility -- which we needed to win over the fans." That's how people viewed Robby Alomar back then -- as Mr. Credibility. Just 19 months ago. Boy, does this guy's world look different now, or what? In the end, he was the symbol of all the excitement and credibility that had disappeared from the Mets. In the end, he was the symbol of all the reasons Steve Phillips doesn't work in Flushing anymore. Going, Going Gonzo? Gonzalez Lots of Juan Gonzalez rumors continue to circulate (Dodgers, Diamondbacks, etc.). But there is massive skepticism that Gonzalez will ever approve any deal to go anywhere, unless he gets money or an extension out of it. "He's a very complex, strange guy," says one baseball man. "He is an RBI guy. He does get those runs in. But he's on his own program, totally. So his market right now is not real good." One AL scout who has known Gonzalez for years thinks he's now motivated only by money. "I really don't think he likes to play anymore," the scout says. "The real reason he wants to stay in Texas is, he pays no state income tax there. It's all a big tax issue. When he rejected that deal to Montreal, that was all about money. He'd have gotten crushed, tax-wise, in Montreal. And it's the same situation almost anywhere else he'd go." Robby Alomar plays for the Chicago White Sox now. And needless to say, he is the No. 1 topic in his sport this week. So let's look at all the permutations of the deal that sent him to the South Side of Chicago. Three clubs we surveyed thought the Mets did very well in this deal, considering they had to pay $3.75 million of Alomar's remaining paychecks. The way the Mets are figuring it, if they'd kept Alomar, let him walk after the season and then taken their two draft picks as compensation, just signing the picks would have cost close to $2.5 million. So for a million bucks and change, they get Royce Ring and Edwin Almonte, who are better-known quantities than two mysterious draftees would have been. Almonte will probably pitch in middle relief for them at some point in the not-too-distant future. But Ring is regarded by just about everyone as surefire closer material -- and he has a chance to visit Shea Stadium pretty close to the time Armando Benitez checks out. "Jim Duquette did his homework," says one NL executive of the Mets' interim general manager. "We like Royce Ring a lot. And we like Almonte, too. I know Ring isn't throwing like he did earlier in the year (as refelected in his 7.15 June ERA), but all I know is, he's a left-handed closer with nasty stuff. He's got a nasty breaking ball that just manhandles left-handers and right-handers." But how good will Alomar be in Chicago? That's the question that will have the biggest impact on the pennant races. "He could make you look real smart, or he could take you down the tubes," says one AL executive. "It all depends on how the clubhouse he goes into receives him." A scout who covered the Mets recently says: "Maybe the bright lights (of being in a race) will pick him up. But the more I saw him, the more I thought his skills had eroded." And one executive who has known Alomar for a decade says: "Going back with his brother is going to help him. They've had their disagreements at times. But Sandy is a guy who can get on him, and not everybody can do that with Robby." In fact -- as Jerry Beach, Mets beat man for e-sportsny.com, points out -- nothing has motivated Robby Alomar more than the other Alomars. In 19 games as a Met against either his brother's team or his father's team, Alomar hit .377, with five homers. In his other games as a Met (and that's 203 of them), he hit only .256, with just eight homers. But Alomar responds best to calm nurturing clubhouses. And as one AL scout observes, "the chemistry on that club he's going to is not the greatest. Contrary to public perception, Robby can be a very good person. But he can also be a very dangerous person (to team chemistry) in the wrong setting. And that's an explosive clubhouse. "Knowing Robby, he'll be fine if they contend and play well, because that's his primary motivation. He plays to the level of the competitiveness of his team." In retrospect, it now appears that the Indians did better in the deal that made Alomar a Met than anyone envisioned at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 (Alomar) ".....He plays to the level of the competitiveness of his team." Is that like Colon, if the team shows up THEN they will? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 (Alomar) ".....He plays to the level of the competitiveness of his team." Is that like Colon, if the team shows up THEN they will? The way that was worded, it sounds like it. And it wouldn't surprise me if that's true. Look at what happened in NY...he goes from Cleveland and hits .336 on a division winner to going to NY and hits .266 on a last place team. Coinincidence? I think not. However, right now, I assume he realizes he is in a good situation, and he will produce....or so I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 That isnt true Alomar never adjusted to the NL East and he never was right in New York... You cant say since he went to a bad team he just decided not to play.. Alomar wouldnt do that I dont think he would just quit being good because he wasnt on a good team.. He never adjusted.. The sox are 42-44... they arent in first place... and Almoar has come in and hit great so far He is back in the AL where he hit the best.. he never was good in the NL.. I do not think Alomar just quit, he wouldnt do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 If anyone wants a big reason for Alomar's slip, they should look at the fact he had no protection in the lineup, mixed with the fact that Howe took him out of his game. He wasn't allowed to bunt, nor was he allowed to steal. That may seem minimal to some, but when you make your living playing agressive, heads up baseball and doing all those things it makes a huge defense. Eventually guys stop playing in on the corners which closes the big holes he once had. Mix that with him never being in the NL so he didn't recognize the pitching and I chalk that up as another reason. I also think he wasn't happy there. He will be happy with his brother and in competition. The Sox will be alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Mets were horrid anyone who gets out of that mess is better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 ChiSoxFan: What do you mean Beane took him out of his game? Do you mean Art Howe? Last year, Bobby V? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 ChiSoxFan: What do you mean Beane took him out of his game? Do you mean Art Howe? Last year, Bobby V? Ya, my bad. For some reason I said Beane, but I meant Art Howe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Jason, when I do something like that it is called "senility." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Jason, when I do something like that it is called "senility." Good old senility. Damn, I'm already going senile at 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagomike25 Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 All I'll say is I thought this move and the Everett trade were good for us. Dumping Jimenez today and getting something for him also a plus... I like the way this team is shaping up To the rest of the Central I say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 All I'll say is I thought this move and the Everett trade were good for us. Dumping Jimenez today and getting something for him also a plus... I like the way this team is shaping up To the rest of the Central I say Welcome aboard. While I was a huge Jimenez fan Alomar is a big time upgrade. The guy is a great leadoff hitter, can bunt (Dlo couldnt' do that), plus he is unbelievable defensively. How often can Sox fans say they have the best defensive player at a certain position. One of the best things about having a good farm system is that you can move that talent to help put a team on top. Thats what Williams did with those moves and I only hope that he has one more move on the way that will bring the Sox a good starter and reliever using Carlos or PK as trade bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Are there two ChiSoxFans on this board. There is one who seems to really know his baseball, makes a lot of great points about the team, has original thoughts, and is a pretty good writer. Then there is another guy with the same name who claims to be a "huge" Jiminez fan. How can they be the same person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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