Cabrera Rips Teammates

[nitetrain8601]

First off, Dye didn't call the fans ignorant.

 

Second, read these boards for a while, and you can understand where that thought would come from, even if he didn't say it.

 

 

This whole topic is totally ignorant. There are posts in here talking about shipping both Dye and Konerko away, but keeping Cabrera, because Cabrera is a "leader". Really? So because all you see is a guy talking to the media, instead of keeping it in the clubhouse, he is a leader? Because Dye and Konerko don't whore themselves out to the media, and keep things "in house", they aren't "leaders"? Bulls***.

 

Problem is, Cabrera is a gamer and none of the guys that you just listed are. There are way way more guys that have the same attitude that Javy has, but yet Javy is the one who gets the flack for it. Everyone else does not. Cabrera doesn't have to stay, but I like his attitude currently. I want people who expect to win and are dying to go all out. Guys who are not afraid to pitch inside or flat out attack instead of nibbling. I want the AJ that supposedly nailed a coach in the nuts in SF. I want Carl Everett's approach.

 

[The Ginger Kid]

Dye's not a gamer?

[Chisoxfn]

blah, blah, blah. Just like how you "freaking loved" Erstad, I can never take your opinion seriously on ex or current Angel players. Sorry.

Well to be fair, I long thought Erstad was one of the most "overrated players in baseball" (you can ask any of my friends such0. However, for a million bucks I felt it was a worthwhile move. I was not behind the Erstad for Singleton/etc deal because at the time Ersty was horribly over-rated. But as a CFer he did a lot of solid things and in general was a smart baseball player (just not a 10M a year player which the Angels were paying him). Call me crazy but as someone who played baseball into high school I have an extreme appreciation for those guys that play the game right (smart base-running, fundementally sound players).

[CarlosMartinez]

Problem is, Cabrera is a gamer and none of the guys that you just listed are. There are way way more guys that have the same attitude that Javy has, but yet Javy is the one who gets the flack for it. Everyone else does not. Cabrera doesn't have to stay, but I like his attitude currently. I want people who expect to win and are dying to go all out. Guys who are not afraid to pitch inside or flat out attack instead of nibbling. I want the AJ that supposedly nailed a coach in the nuts in SF. I want Carl Everett's approach.

 

 

But you can't have an entire team of guys with that approach. Good teams have an even mix of guys who lead by example and guys who will chew a teamates ass when necessary. Right now we have too many "lead by example" guys and their example has been bad. JD has been a shell of himself for over a month, PK had a good couple of weeks all season and Thome is Thome, whether thats a good thing or bad. We have two guys right now making noise, AJ who has earned that right with the Sox but his production has been down and OC who hasn't fit in with this team since day one. Maybe if he didn't make the season all about "OC" then his teamates and fans wouldn't be upset with him telling everyone whats wrong with the team.

[nitetrain8601]

But you can't have an entire team of guys with that approach. Good teams have an even mix of guys who lead by example and guys who will chew a teamates ass when necessary. Right now we have too many "lead by example" guys and their example has been bad. JD has been a shell of himself for over a month, PK had a good couple of weeks all season and Thome is Thome, whether thats a good thing or bad. We have two guys right now making noise, AJ who has earned that right with the Sox but his production has been down and OC who hasn't fit in with this team since day one. Maybe if he didn't make the season all about "OC" then his teamates and fans wouldn't be upset with him telling everyone whats wrong with the team.

 

Well exactly. For every OC you need like 3 or 4 Manny type players who could do it based on pure skill. Heck, we had Quentin do that. Always quiet, but he takes care of business. No one else on our team does that for the most part. PK is hugely overrated which is why I didn't even like his contract at the time. He doesn't lead, period. Dye has never been a leader, just a good guy. Thome is another good guy, but took care of business for the most part. You need a mix or else people start taking things the wrong way. Right now, all we have is Orlando calling out the team for performance and mentality. We need a couple more people like that.

[sox1844]

First off, Dye didn't call the fans ignorant.

 

Second, read these boards for a while, and you can understand where that thought would come from, even if he didn't say it.

 

 

This whole topic is totally ignorant. There are posts in here talking about shipping both Dye and Konerko away, but keeping Cabrera, because Cabrera is a "leader". Really? So because all you see is a guy talking to the media, instead of keeping it in the clubhouse, he is a leader? Because Dye and Konerko don't whore themselves out to the media, and keep things "in house", they aren't "leaders"? Bulls***.

 

You HAVE to be kidding me?? Cabrera didn't name names, he merely calmly answered a question that was asked of him. Whats the big deal? Should he have lied and said that everyone holds hands and sings in the clubhouse? Why does everyone need to slap a label on what he said? The guy was answering a question and did so honestly. So what? These guys have so much pressure to talk to the media, but whenever they do - they get crucified.

[sox1844]

But you can't have an entire team of guys with that approach. Good teams have an even mix of guys who lead by example and guys who will chew a teamates ass when necessary. Right now we have too many "lead by example" guys and their example has been bad. JD has been a shell of himself for over a month, PK had a good couple of weeks all season and Thome is Thome, whether thats a good thing or bad. We have two guys right now making noise, AJ who has earned that right with the Sox but his production has been down and OC who hasn't fit in with this team since day one. Maybe if he didn't make the season all about "OC" then his teamates and fans wouldn't be upset with him telling everyone whats wrong with the team.

I must be crazy. I haven't heard one thing from Cabrera since the last time Joe Cowley tore him apart back in May. Not one thing. How can you say that the season is all about OC? The guy grinded and pulled him self from .206 with Swish and Thome all the way up to .283? With 19 stolen bases and solid D. If that doesn't deserve a little respect, I don't know what does. Geez. At least the respect to be able to answer a question truthfully with out being torn to shreds.

 

I agree that good teams need an even mix, but how can you show up every day knowing that your manager will throw you under the bus in a hot second if he thinks he found a fall guy? Ozzie's comments were insane.

[CarlosMartinez]

I must be crazy. I haven't heard one thing from Cabrera since the last time Joe Cowley tore him apart back in May. Not one thing. How can you say that the season is all about OC? The guy grinded and pulled him self from .206 with Swish and Thome all the way up to .283? With 19 stolen bases and solid D. If that doesn't deserve a little respect, I don't know what does. Geez. At least the respect to be able to answer a question truthfully with out being torn to shreds.

 

I agree that good teams need an even mix, but how can you show up every day knowing that your manager will throw you under the bus in a hot second if he thinks he found a fall guy? Ozzie's comments were insane.

 

 

I respect what he's done on the field, his D has not been of the gold glove variety though. What I'm saying is the guy has rubbed people the wrong way from the day he got here. And how many teams has this so called leader played for? If he was so valuable and had was such a great clubhouse presence, he would have stuck with a team by now. I love that he's been a fairly consistent bat and filled our leadoff role, but it is a contract season.... I just think feel his comments this week may not have been the best thing, no matter how much truth he spoke. Those words should have come from AJ, PK, JD, Thome, or Crede if he were playing. Guys who have been in the clubhouse for a few years. Not a guy who's a 1 year rent-a-player.

 

As for Ozzie treating him as a fall guy I disagree. Ozzie said OC's comments were fine but he spoke from the perspective of the other guys on the team, watch what you say because it may come across the wrong way. Also, don't suddenly start talking to the media in the last week of the season and come off as some great team leader. Do that from day 1 no matter how you or the team is playing.

 

[sox1844]

I respect what he's done on the field, his D has not been of the gold glove variety though. What I'm saying is the guy has rubbed people the wrong way from the day he got here. And how many teams has this so called leader played for? If he was so valuable and had was such a great clubhouse presence, he would have stuck with a team by now. I love that he's been a fairly consistent bat and filled our leadoff role, but it is a contract season.... I just think feel his comments this week may not have been the best thing, no matter how much truth he spoke. Those words should have come from AJ, PK, JD, Thome, or Crede if he were playing. Guys who have been in the clubhouse for a few years. Not a guy who's a 1 year rent-a-player.

 

As for Ozzie treating him as a fall guy I disagree. Ozzie said OC's comments were fine but he spoke from the perspective of the other guys on the team, watch what you say because it may come across the wrong way. Also, don't suddenly start talking to the media in the last week of the season and come off as some great team leader. Do that from day 1 no matter how you or the team is playing.

 

If you look at his career numbers, he's above his career averages. What more can you ask for? Also, over a 10 year career, is it really uncommon to see time on 3 or 4 teams? I don't think thats unreasonable enough to indicate a major personality flaw. Every time this guy plays an old team all you can see is hugs and laughter. Mike Scoscia hugged him like a long lost son!

 

Those words maybe should have come from someone else, but no one else said anything. Except Ozzie, who loves to name names (Javy most recently) and put guys on blast personally. Everything Cabrera said was in general and he said "we" about 30 times. I don't think anyone should care how long you've been in a particular clubhouse, you shouldn't have to walk on eggshells after you are a 10 year vet. I just don't understand this team.

[santo=dorf]

Well to be fair, I long thought Erstad was one of the most "overrated players in baseball" (you can ask any of my friends such0. However, for a million bucks I felt it was a worthwhile move. I was not behind the Erstad for Singleton/etc deal because at the time Ersty was horribly over-rated. But as a CFer he did a lot of solid things and in general was a smart baseball player (just not a 10M a year player which the Angels were paying him). Call me crazy but as someone who played baseball into high school I have an extreme appreciation for those guys that play the game right (smart base-running, fundementally sound players).

Cabrera has been bad on the base paths, pulled balls to short with runners on second, and yesterday tried to turn a DP on the third out. Is worrying about your error total part of good fundamental baseball as well?

[fathom]

Cabrera has been bad on the base paths, pulled balls to short with runners on second, and yesterday tried to turn a DP on the third out. Is worrying about your error total part of good fundamental baseball as well?

 

He's been absolutely terrible with fundamentals this season. He's also been the main culprit on the botched rundowns.

[DaTank]

Ozzie's the same whether they win or lose? Really? Since when? If he's the leader not Cabrera like he said then maybe he needs to call his team out. Maybe he needs to make better decisions and make sure his battery make better pitch selections and adjust his lineup. Maybe he needs to shut his mouth because he motivates other teams better than his own.

 

This whole god damn team from management to the players need to shut their f***ing mouths and go out and win or shut the f*** up.

 

I almost can't wait until this choke fest is over because I just can't give up hope. My goodness...

 

You nailed it right on the head.

[gosox41]

I respect what he's done on the field, his D has not been of the gold glove variety though. What I'm saying is the guy has rubbed people the wrong way from the day he got here. And how many teams has this so called leader played for? If he was so valuable and had was such a great clubhouse presence, he would have stuck with a team by now. I love that he's been a fairly consistent bat and filled our leadoff role, but it is a contract season.... I just think feel his comments this week may not have been the best thing, no matter how much truth he spoke. Those words should have come from AJ, PK, JD, Thome, or Crede if he were playing. Guys who have been in the clubhouse for a few years. Not a guy who's a 1 year rent-a-player.

 

 

PK couldn't say those words. Our captain was too busy talking about how the Minnesota series wasn't a big series.

 

 

 

 

[Friend of Nordhagen]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...-ssep25.article

 

 

 

I don't understand two things what OC does here. He says: "There are guys that want to be clowns...". He contributes to all of that. What do you call all of his crazy handshakes during the games? Don't get me wrong, I think they're hilarious, but he shouldn't be talking about joking around during games when he participates in it.

 

I also don't understand why he decides to make these comments now. Does he think this will help them in their game tonight? Does he think it will help them if they actually make the playoffs?

 

What do you all think about this?

 

I'm not a big Cabrera fan (I think his fundamental abilities, including defense, were greatly oversold), but Cowley isn't credible on this. He's clearly upset because Cabrera doesn't talk to him after the games -- typical writer move -- this guy doesn't talk to us in the press, so he's a bad guy.

[sox1844]

What he said is not "ripping" anyone. There is no need to make this bigger than a guy giving an opinion.

[Dick Allen]

I'm not a big Cabrera fan (I think his fundamental abilities, including defense, were greatly oversold), but Cowley isn't credible on this. He's clearly upset because Cabrera doesn't talk to him after the games -- typical writer move -- this guy doesn't talk to us in the press, so he's a bad guy.

While I agree Cowley has an axe to grind and some of his OC crap is probably BS, the only people happier than OC when he leaves town will be most of the White Sox organization. He has made a couple pals, but for the most part he has not been well received.

 

[greg775]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, OC.

Our organization is better than you. Bye bye.

[sox1844]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, OC.

Our organization is better than you. Bye bye.

This organization is an embarassment. Absolutely disgraceful.