Kennedy Assassination

[The Bones]

The 45th Anniversary was this weekend and I've seen a few things on TV regarding the topic so I was just wondering where Soxtalk stands on this issue.

Edited November 24, 2008 by The Bones

[ThunderBolt]

Anyone ever seen the documentary the Men who Killed Kennedy? That's what really got me interested in some of the theorys going around. I don't really put much stock in the whole it's a gigantic Cuban conspiracy, but i'm more then willing to cast my interest towards the whole grassy knoll Officer JD Tippit story.

[maggsmaggs]

I watched JFK yesterday, so this is obvious going to be bit of a different perspective since Stone's movie so inbred in my mind right now, though I have seen the movie a few times. I believe there were others, but unlike the movie's premise, I don't think the involvement went that high up into the government with the likes of LBJ being involved. I think it was mob motivated and some other people affiliated with the mob were used in the shooting.

[Balta1701]

Anyone ever seen the documentary the Men who Killed Kennedy? That's what really got me interested in some of the theorys going around. I don't really put much stock in the whole it's a gigantic Cuban conspiracy, but i'm more then willing to cast my interest towards the whole grassy knoll Officer JD Tippit story.

If there was a man on the Grassy Knoll shooting...he missed.

[Texsox]

One gunman killed the President and hit the Governor. If there was any others shooting, and I do not think so, they missed and their bullets were never recovered. Stone, admittedly, took many artistic liberties with the story and it has left many people with information dancing around their brains as fact, which, at best, are unsubstantiated claims and at worst, are outright falsehoods.

[Balta1701]

One gunman killed the President and hit the Governor. If there was any others shooting, and I do not think so, they missed and their bullets were never recovered. Stone, admittedly, took many artistic liberties with the story and it has left many people with information dancing around their brains as fact, which, at best, are unsubstantiated claims and at worst, are outright falsehoods.

And, most noteworthy, that gunman was firing from an elevated position at a distance behind the motorcade.

[ThunderBolt]

It’s truly fascinating the conspiracy theories that emerge from these incidents. Even the simplest of solutions will never be accepted at face value. Does anyone remember the exact results of the trajectory tests they did recently?

[BearSox]

http://media.putfile.com/Family-Guy-Harvey-Lee-Oswald

[southsider2k5]

How many people have actually ever been to the location that this happened at? The one thing I will say is how small the area really is. Oswald shooting from the book depository would have had a perfect shot, at a slow moving target, with nothing in his way, and not a long range. Also with the buildings there, I could really see how people could think there were multiple shooters. Noises echo in areas like that pretty easily, and it becomes hard to tell where exactly they came from.

[Texsox]

How many people have actually ever been to the location that this happened at? The one thing I will say is how small the area really is. Oswald shooting from the book depository would have had a perfect shot, at a slow moving target, with nothing in his way, and not a long range. Also with the buildings there, I could really see how people could think there were multiple shooters. Noises echo in areas like that pretty easily, and it becomes hard to tell where exactly they came from.

 

Most researchers peg the number at about 90 yards. Less than half the distance that Oswald was proficient while being trained in the US military. They talk about him living in Russia for a couple years and his trip to the Cuban embassy, but the guy was wacked by most accounts. Sadly, his best training was by the US military. Much like we trained other mass and serial killers.

[YASNY]

How many people have actually ever been to the location that this happened at? The one thing I will say is how small the area really is. Oswald shooting from the book depository would have had a perfect shot, at a slow moving target, with nothing in his way, and not a long range. Also with the buildings there, I could really see how people could think there were multiple shooters. Noises echo in areas like that pretty easily, and it becomes hard to tell where exactly they came from.

 

I've been there and I agree with everything you say here.

[Texsox]

Further, there are a lot of people that think they know what a gun being fired sounds like.

[southsider2k5]

I've been there and I agree with everything you say here.

 

I really did believe in a conspiracy a lot more until I actually visited the site and walked lots of the famous areas. The size of the area and the way it is set up is hard to appreciate through TV and the internet. I was a believer that Oswald could not have done it alone until I saw these couple of blocks, plus a couple of marksmen who set up some gel dummies and actually tested for the tragectory and distance, that it was entirely possible, actually probable, that LHO did this himself.

 

Now were there people forcing/asking him to do this? That I don't know.

 

[Texsox]

Now were there people forcing/asking him to do this? That I don't know.

 

No doubt in my mind he was a fan of communism, but I think he was a bigger fan of wanting the notoriety.

[lostfan]

Most researchers peg the number at about 90 yards. Less than half the distance that Oswald was proficient while being trained in the US military. They talk about him living in Russia for a couple years and his trip to the Cuban embassy, but the guy was wacked by most accounts. Sadly, his best training was by the US military. Much like we trained other mass and serial killers.

90 yards is really nothing, if we're talking about a rifle and not a handgun. If I'm looking at the silhouette of a human, I can pretty much automatically hit it if I'm given enough time. I think it's also safe to say that anyone who knows how to fire a rifle can do it pretty easily too.

[NorthSideSox72]

90 yards is really nothing, if we're talking about a rifle and not a handgun. If I'm looking at the silhouette of a human, I can pretty much automatically hit it if I'm given enough time. I think it's also safe to say that anyone who knows how to fire a rifle can do it pretty easily too.

I believe the weapon was an Italian-made carbine bolt action rifle. Not exactly high end sniper gear, but at 270 feet, hitting a human silhouette should be relatively easy for a trained shooter.

 

270 feet with a pistol on the other hand would be tough.

 

[Texsox]

90 yards is really nothing, if we're talking about a rifle and not a handgun. If I'm looking at the silhouette of a human, I can pretty much automatically hit it if I'm given enough time. I think it's also safe to say that anyone who knows how to fire a rifle can do it pretty easily too.

 

The other issue was the time he had, many conspiracy buffs believe he could not have gotten off three shots in the time allowed. It is also suspect that he missed on one and then made two solid hits on the follow up. I've seen this with novice shooters who do better on their second and third shots on a deer because they are reacting and not thinking. However, for a trained marksman like Oswald, I am troubled by that. Unless he had second thoughts as he squeezed the trigger on the first shot.

[StrangeSox]

Further, there are a lot of people that think they know what a gun being fired sounds like.

 

Reminds me of all the 9/11 conspiracy theory movies/ websites out there that have quotes from people saying the 'supposed' plane that hit the Pentagon "sounded like a cruise missile!" Right, because you've ever heard a cruise missile screaming along at a few hundred miles an hour.

[Texsox]

I believe the weapon was an Italian-made carbine bolt action rifle. Not exactly high end sniper gear, but at 270 feet, hitting a human silhouette should be relatively easy for a trained shooter.

 

270 feet with a pistol on the other hand would be tough.

 

Mail order, he paid less than $20

[StrangeSox]

Mail order, he paid less than $20

 

Yeah, but $20 in 1963 is like $45,000 today, right?

[lostfan]

Reminds me of all the 9/11 conspiracy theory movies/ websites out there that have quotes from people saying the 'supposed' plane that hit the Pentagon "sounded like a cruise missile!" Right, because you've ever heard a cruise missile screaming along at a few hundred miles an hour.

bahaha yeah. Everyone knows what a cruise missile sounds like, didn't you know? Are you retarded?

[Texsox]

Yeah, but $20 in 1963 is like $45,000 today, right?

 

It was, as I understand it, not quite bottom basement cheap, but for that price, you would have been hard pressed to own a Remington. Remington rifles were going for $40 and up at the time.

[southsider2k5]

The other issue was the time he had, many conspiracy buffs believe he could not have gotten off three shots in the time allowed. It is also suspect that he missed on one and then made two solid hits on the follow up. I've seen this with novice shooters who do better on their second and third shots on a deer because they are reacting and not thinking. However, for a trained marksman like Oswald, I am troubled by that. Unless he had second thoughts as he squeezed the trigger on the first shot.

 

The offical report is that he did it in 8.2 seconds. One of the specials on History had a trained marksman do it in 7 second flat.

[lostfan]

The other issue was the time he had, many conspiracy buffs believe he could not have gotten off three shots in the time allowed. It is also suspect that he missed on one and then made two solid hits on the follow up. I've seen this with novice shooters who do better on their second and third shots on a deer because they are reacting and not thinking. However, for a trained marksman like Oswald, I am troubled by that. Unless he had second thoughts as he squeezed the trigger on the first shot.

At that distance, a couple of seconds to re-align the sight picture really isn't that big of a deal either. The target still looks pretty big.

[southsider2k5]

Reminds me of all the 9/11 conspiracy theory movies/ websites out there that have quotes from people saying the 'supposed' plane that hit the Pentagon "sounded like a cruise missile!" Right, because you've ever heard a cruise missile screaming along at a few hundred miles an hour.

 

Or know what a controled demolition of a 110 story building looks like