Your '09 White Sox Lineup

[ILMOU]

If you believe KW, everyone has been wrong so far. AJP will bat 2nd again.

 

To me, this is the worst news of the offseason.

 

There is no ideal 2-hole hitter on this team as currently constructed, but AJ should definitely not be the guy. Last year, Ozzie really had no choice. With the failure of Dirty, Owens injury, etc., he had to move OC from his natural 2 hole spot to leadoff. I give him credit for making a gutsy move at the time.

 

'09, however, is a new year, and I strongly believe that Lexi or another option (Getz?) needs to be given a chance. We've got three consecutive home run hitters in the 3-5 slots, and we're just giving away runs by putting a .312 OBP guy in front of them. It will cost us games.

 

Lexi's relatively low strikeout totals, and his general batsmanship, make me believe he could gain enough patience to get his OBP in the .340-.350 range. We KNOW what AJP will do, and it's WAY substandard for the 2 hole. AJP batting second is an idea that needs to be shelved yesterday.

 

[ILMOU]

Indications are that prized left-hander Aaron Poreda has an excellent shot at making the Opening Day roster, even if he doesn't beat out Clayton Richard or Jeff Marquez for the fifth starter's spot.

 

Guillen said his son Oney raved about Poreda when they played together in the minor leagues. Poreda also struck out five in three innings, including a called third strike on Colorado's Todd Helton, in a 'B' game last March.

 

"Pretty soon he'll be in the big leagues, and you will enjoy the way this kid pitches," Guillen said. "He's got great stuff. Whoever scouted this guy should be proud."

 

www.chicagotribune.com/sports

 

This is much better news. I'm hoping AP makes the bullpen at least, and can be groomed for replacing whoever fails/gets injured among the starting five, while facing MLB hitters.

 

[Balta1701]

AJ is not a prototypical #2 hitter, but he did reasonably well in that position last year. Its not as bone-headed as some are making it out to be, when you have a team full of big boppers like the Sox have. They don't really have great options for #1 and #2.

But I think as currently built, the Sox have 3+ guys who would all have to fall apart to have AJ work in that role again. Getz, Lillibredge, Owens, and Ramirez all strike me as better 1/2 spot guys than AJ. Either they are a lot more patient/take more walks, have better speed, make better contract, etc.

[Balta1701]

This is much better news. I'm hoping AP makes the bullpen at least, and can be groomed for replacing whoever fails/gets injured among the starting five, while facing MLB hitters.

I disagree. Based on what AP needs to do to be ready for the show, master a 3rd pitch, I'd rather have him eating up innings in AAA than working out of the pen. Out of the MLB pen he can be successful with 2 pitches. He'll need the 3rd to be a solid starter, and he's not going to be throwing that much out of the pen. I suppose they could focus on having him use it and have cooper constantly working with him, I just think it'd be easier if he gets the innings in AAA.

 

IMO, best case scenario is Marquez pitches well enough to earn the 5th starter spot in ST, Richard takes the bullpen spot (He's another 2 pitch guy, but we don't have nearly as much invested in him as Poreda) and AP starts off in AAA at least for a month or two.

[NorthSideSox72]

But I think as currently built, the Sox have 3+ guys who would all have to fall apart to have AJ work in that role again. Getz, Lillibredge, Owens, and Ramirez all strike me as better 1/2 spot guys than AJ. Either they are a lot more patient/take more walks, have better speed, make better contract, etc.

AJ is actually a decent guy for contact, hits to the right side or up the middle a lot when on the ground, can hit situationally, and is at least a smart baserunner. But he does lack speed and walks, and can't bunt. I'd rather see Alexei there. But as some people have pointed out, that takes away the hitting with RISP aspect for Lexi to a certain extent, and his OBP isn't great.

 

Either one will work, IMO. The idea that one or the other is stupid is just not looking at what there is to work with.

 

Unless Lillibridge converts to CF, you won't have him AND Getz in the lineup daily, so those are really one guy. And I'd like to see Getz, who profiles like a high OBP guy with some speed, lead off. Owens I just think is a weak spot, and should hit 9th, along with Anderson.

 

[ILMOU]

soooo much can change during spring training. but as of right now here is what i project:

 

Lillybridge CF (has an amazing ST)

Pierzynski C (like Fathom said, KW loves AJ hitting second)

Quentin LF

Dye RF

Thome DH

Ramirez SS

Konerko 1B

Fields 3B

Getz 2B

 

Bench: Betemit 3B, 1B, Wise OF, Anderson OF, ?? C, Nix INF

 

Rotation:

Buerhle

Danks

Floyd

Poreda (has an amazing ST...)

Colon

 

Bullpen:

Jenks, Thorton, Dotel, Linebrink, Richard, Wasserman

 

This is also the lineup I'd like to see, except Getz at 2, AJP at 8 and Fields at 9. Here's hoping that Getz and ESPECIALLY Lilli win their battles in ST.

 

[daa84]

Getz 2b (except for last year in the minors, when he started to hit for more power, he has always had more BB than Ks)

Fields 3b (I hate AJ here, if Alexei didn't swing at everything I'd go with him, Fields is best option)

Quentin LF

Thome DH

Dye RF

Konerko 1b

Pierzynski C

Ramirez SS

Anderson CF

 

 

I just don't understand the rhetoric that comes out of the mouths of the people in charge. One minute they say we don't need a traditional leadoff hitter, but a guy who gets on base...which leads me to think Getz, which as stated above is what I want. Then all you ever hear about is Jerry Owens solves CF and leadoff.

 

If Owens can put up an obp near .350, then I'm fine with him in the lineup. If anderson can give you a .330 obp and hit 20 Hr, id rather have him and his D in the lineup. Unfortunately I don't really have faith in either to do so. If lillibridge can put up a .340 obp (which i doubt since he didn't even break .300 at AAA last year) than I would put him at SS and alexei in CF. Either way, I am fine with our 3b situation, and our 2b situation. I feel confident enough in Fields and Getz, but I'm really disappointed KW didnt do something to address the CF situation. I know I'm one of few, but Swisher sure wouldn't look too bad playing CF (his D was adequate), getting on base, and seeing more pitches than any other player in the league in the #2 spot.

 

[ILMOU]

I disagree. Based on what AP needs to do to be ready for the show, master a 3rd pitch, I'd rather have him eating up innings in AAA than working out of the pen. Out of the MLB pen he can be successful with 2 pitches. He'll need the 3rd to be a solid starter, and he's not going to be throwing that much out of the pen. I suppose they could focus on having him use it and have cooper constantly working with him, I just think it'd be easier if he gets the innings in AAA.

 

IMO, best case scenario is Marquez pitches well enough to earn the 5th starter spot in ST, Richard takes the bullpen spot (He's another 2 pitch guy, but we don't have nearly as much invested in him as Poreda) and AP starts off in AAA at least for a month or two.

 

I don't disagree with your analysis, and AP does need a third pitch. Let's just say I like the idea of him working with Coop rather than the guys in Charlotte. Additionally, he might be really good as a reliever, and we'll need another lefty there if Richard beats out Marquez - I think he will.

 

[Balta1701]

I don't disagree with your analysis, and AP does need a third pitch. Let's just say I like the idea of him working with Coop rather than the guys in Charlotte. Additionally, he might be really good as a reliever, and we'll need another lefty there if Richard beats out Marquez - I think he will.

If Richard beats out Marquez for the 5th starter slot, we probably don't have a choice, but that doesn't mean it's the best option.

[RockRaines]

AJ is actually a decent guy for contact, hits to the right side or up the middle a lot when on the ground, can hit situationally, and is at least a smart baserunner. But he does lack speed and walks, and can't bunt. I'd rather see Alexei there. But as some people have pointed out, that takes away the hitting with RISP aspect for Lexi to a certain extent, and his OBP isn't great.

I appreciate your subjective review of AJ's hitting, but the fact is, he was a terrible #2 hitter.

 

2008 hitting 2nd:

 

.284 .307 .407 for a .714 OPS.

 

thats pretty awful that high in the lineup. Thats exactly 5 points in OPS higher than Brian Anderson's stats last season.

 

AJ was last season and always has been the most effective in the 6th spot followed closely by the 7th and 8th. He should be farther down the lineup.

 

 

Also Alexei was far and away most effective when hitting 9th in the lineup.

Edited February 2, 2009 by RockRaines

[ThunderBolt]

Lillibridge played CF in high school so it isn't really as much a matter to convert him then to just give him a shot to win that job.

[GoodAsGould]

Lillibridge played CF in high school so it isn't really as much a matter to convert him then to just give him a shot to win that job.

 

I really forsee a platoon of Lillibridge/Owens leading off followed be Getz, Its risky but I think given the state of our team makes the best sense.

[joeynach]

Broadway should come no where near the 25 man roster., PERIOD!!

[SoxAce]

To Start The Season/or as of right now:

Owens - CF

Ramirez - SS

Quentin - LF

Thome - DH

Dye - RF

Konerko - 1B

Pierzynski - C

Fields - 3B

Getz - 2B

 

Bench - Lillibridge (KW's first "tweak guy" to improve his game) - 2B/SS/CF, Betemit - basically the whole infield, Stewart/Lucy/Miller/ST trade or I-Rod - C, Anderson - basically the whole OF, since Oz has done it before

 

Rotation - Buehrle, Floyd, Danks, Colon, Marquez (KW's second "tweak" guy [or Coop's project] to make him a better GO/AO pitcher; or what he calls.. "Jon Garland with a better fastball")

 

Bullpen - Richard, Russell/Wassermann, Carrasco, Thornton, Linebrink, Dotel, Jenks

 

After ST/During the middle/towards the end:

Lillibridge - CF

Getz - 2B (impresses with the "Ozzie Ball")

Quentin - LF

Thome - DH

Dye - RF (assuming he's still here with us/our record is good/KW is blown away in a trade)

Konerko - 1B

Ramirez - SS

Pierzynski - C

Fields/Viciedo (if he's raking;Fields struggles;for a few games to take pressure off) - 3B

 

Bench - Nix (big season in AAA) or a trade for a vet, Betemit - basically the whole infield and LF, Stewart/Lucy/Miller/late trade or I-Rod - C, Owens - LF/CF/late inning pinch running. BA is probably traded... unfortunitely, unless they want BA's defense (can play all OF positions) more for their needs but I can't see him particularly wasted like this.

 

Rotation - Danks(MBINAA), Floyd, Buehrle, Colon (if he holds up)/Contreras (by August/September he's just a bulldog in rehab), Contreras/Marquez/Richard/Poreda

 

Bullpen - Richard, Russell/Wassermann/Link, Carrasco/Nunez, Thornton, Linebrink, Dotel, Jenks

 

My personal favorite line-up:

Lillibridge - 2B/SS

Ramirez - SS/2B

Quentin - LF

Thome - DH

Dye - RF

Konerko - 1B

Pierzynski - C

Fields - 3B

Anderson - CF

 

The best "Defense"/upside positions: (Since I'm bored, and IMO of course)

Lucy/Pierzynski - C

Betemit/Konerko/Thome - 1B

Nix (couple scouts called him "The best defensive 2B they've ever seen/in a long time")/Lillibridge/Getz - 2B

Lillibridge/Ramirez - SS

Dye/Anderson/Quentin/Owens - LF

Quentin/Anderson/Dye - RF

Betemit/Fields - 3B

Anderson/Lillibridge/Ramirez/Owens - CF

 

Look out for Viciedo, Poreda (if he pitches well in AAA, IMO he needs one more year) and Lillibridge/Marquez. KW I trust. Josh Fields will be a mash monster versus LHP.

[NorthSideSox72]

I appreciate your subjective review of AJ's hitting, but the fact is, he was a terrible #2 hitter.

 

2008 hitting 2nd:

 

.284 .307 .407 for a .714 OPS.

 

thats pretty awful that high in the lineup. Thats exactly 5 points in OPS higher than Brian Anderson's stats last season.

 

AJ was last season and always has been the most effective in the 6th spot followed closely by the 7th and 8th. He should be farther down the lineup.

 

 

Also Alexei was far and away most effective when hitting 9th in the lineup.

The OBP is pretty bad, you'll get no argument from me there. And again, I am not saying AJ is some sort of ideal #2 hitter. What people keep missing here, though, is that you have to work with what you have.

 

Assuming Owens wins the CF job, then you can have Getz/Lillibridge hit #2, but then basically have rookies (and not exactly super-touted ones) in your first two lineup slots. Is that such a great idea?

 

And if Anderson wins the CF job, then you really have Getz/Lillibridge as your leadoff, and then what?

 

Looking at the lineup, the options are very limited. Lexi would be my choice, but AJ is a close 2nd.

 

[daa84]

I think a guy that I haven't given enough thought to, and alot of people here haven't either, is Jayson Nix at 2b. His numbers at AAA were great last year (granted he was 25-26), certainly better than the awful ones Lillibridge put up. I know lillibridge is more versatile and quicker, but I think Nix sees alot of time vs. lefties for this team.

[RockRaines]

The OBP is pretty bad, you'll get no argument from me there. And again, I am not saying AJ is some sort of ideal #2 hitter. What people keep missing here, though, is that you have to work with what you have.

 

Assuming Owens wins the CF job, then you can have Getz/Lillibridge hit #2, but then basically have rookies (and not exactly super-touted ones) in your first two lineup slots. Is that such a great idea?

 

And if Anderson wins the CF job, then you really have Getz/Lillibridge as your leadoff, and then what?

 

Looking at the lineup, the options are very limited. Lexi would be my choice, but AJ is a close 2nd.

Right, and me posting BA's numbers were to show that AJ is pretty much one of our last options in the 2 spot just above Brian Anderson. AJ is a pretty terrible fit for that spot in the order, and his numbers just add a level of proof.

[NorthSideSox72]

Right, and me posting BA's numbers were to show that AJ is pretty much one of our last options in the 2 spot just above Brian Anderson. AJ is a pretty terrible fit for that spot in the order, and his numbers just add a level of proof.

I just disagree. There is more to who best fits in a given spot in the order than AVG, OBP and SLG, as I noted (for #2 includes situational hitting, ability to hit to the right side on demand, good contact numbers, productive outs versus strikeouts, baserunning ability, etc.) . And they change in each slot. The only people who seem likely to start for this team that would be a better fit, IMO, are Getz/Lillibridge and Lexi. And Getz/Lillibridge may need to lead off.

[RockRaines]

I just disagree. There is more to who best fits in a given spot in the order than AVG, OBP and SLG, as I noted (for #2 includes situational hitting, ability to hit to the right side on demand, good contact numbers, productive outs versus strikeouts, baserunning ability, etc.) . And they change in each slot. The only people who seem likely to start for this team that would be a better fit, IMO, are Getz/Lillibridge and Lexi. And Getz/Lillibridge may need to lead off.

Well unless you quantified those situations we have no way to prove or disprove your subjective review of his performance. I DO know that he was mostly garbage with runners on base last season as was a much better hitter with the bases empty. This could be because of productive outs, or it could be that AJ is pull happy and loves to ground the ball to the right side at all times. I DO know that this was the most outs he has made in his career at 407, he was also at a -1 btwin for the season, which means he took away 1 win compared to the league avg hitter. All these numbers cannot really touch what you are describing, but I continue to think that AJ is still probably the last resort for a #2 hitter since he wasnt very good at it and performs MUCH better over his career further down the lineup.

[ILMOU]

The best "Defense"/upside positions: (Since I'm bored, and IMO of course)

Lucy/Pierzynski - C

Betemit/Konerko/Thome - 1B

Nix (couple scouts called him "The best defensive 2B they've ever seen/in a long time")/Lillibridge/Getz - 2B

Lillibridge/Ramirez - SS

Dye/Anderson/Quentin/Owens - LF

Quentin/Anderson/Dye - RF

Betemit/Fields - 3B

Anderson/Lillibridge/Ramirez/Owens - CF

 

The more I think about it, it will really help the team if Lilli makes the 25 man, even if his hitting remains suspect. His defensive flexibility, and apparent quality, will make it much easier for Ozzie to carry the 7th reliever, and still have the necessary pinch runners and defensive replacements on the roster. Likely means that the roster will not have all of Anderson, Owens, and Wise.

 

I'm guessing BA gets traded before opening day. Not want I'd want, necessarily, but I see it as a possibility.

 

[MexSoxFan#1]

I like Thome but if we do get Abreau,I'd like to see him DH or platoon with Dye at RF,we could move Thome but I don't think you'd get much in return for an aging slugger who strikes out a lot and has had injury issues lately... Dye,I suspect would be the odd man out.

[soxfan-kwman]

2009 Line-up

1. Lillibridge-2B

2. Wise-CF

3. Quentin-LF

4. Thome-DH

5. Konerko-1B

6. Dye-RF

7. A.J.-C

8. Ramirez-SS

9. Fields-3B

 

[BearSox]

Personally, for me I'd be something like:

 

LINEUP

1. Getz/Lillibridge, 2B

2. Ramirez, SS

3. Quentin, LF

4. Dye, RF

5. Thome, DH

6. Konerko, 1B

7. Pierzynski, C

8. Fields, 3B

9. Wise/Anderzon, CF

 

This makes the most sense, IMO. Not the greatest, but Getz and Lillibridge can be a pretty decent combo at leadoff. Getz is more of the OBP contact type while Lillibridge is more of a traditional speedster. I'd prefer a true, legit leadoff hitter, but that isn't really a possibility right now. Ramirez, while he might (or probably) hit a sophomore wall, he still makes the most sense in the 2 hole. Has great speed, can bunt, can move the runner over, and can on base himself. The heart of the order should be solid, and the bottom looks decent if Fields, Wise, and Anderson are at least decent.

 

BENCH

C, Armstrong/Miller/Lucy/Stewart???

INF, Betemit

UTL, Lillibridge

OF, Anderson

 

Gotta go with 4 bench players again with 2 HUGE question marks in the rotation. Besides for the backup catcher, I really like our bench though. It has Power (Betemit), Speed (Lillibridge and Anderson), Defense (Anderson, Lillibridge is decent as well, IIRC), and Versatility (Betemit can play all over the INF and is a switch hitter and Lillibridge can play the MI and LF or CF). As far as backup catcher with AJP, my ideal guy would be a righty who is an excellent defender, and can hit lefties. Someone like Ramon Castro (solid defender, isn't the greatest hitter but is solid vs. lefties with a LOT of pop). But since it looks like it will be between the guys I mentioned, I'd prefer Armstrong as he seems to have the most potential of all of them and is a solid defender as well signs of being a decent hitter. Also, since it looks unlikely we'll platoon A.J. because there haven't been any good options, the backup doesn't have to be a righty. Personally, if we don't have a platoon, I'd prefer to see a guy be the set catcher for a certain pitcher. So AJ gets Mark, Danks, Floyd, and Richard/Marquez/Broadway/Poreda, while Armstrong gets Colon.

 

ROTATION

Buehrle

Floyd

Danks

Colon

Richard/Marquez/Broadway/Poreda

 

I see this as our biggest weakness. My feeling on Buehrle is kind of inbetween, I can see Danks or Floyd hitting a wall (happens a lot with young players), Colon might make it out of spring training, but even if he does, I'm not expecting anything better then a 4.5 ERA, and Richard or Marquez (it's likely gonna be one of the two) is very blah. Jose Contreras might come back, but even if he does, I think he'd be better suited for the PEN.

 

PEN

CP, Jenks

SU, Thornton

SU, Linebrink

SU/MRP, Dotel

MRP, Russel

MRP/LRP, Carraso

MRP/LRP, Poreda

 

This seems to be our strongest spot, but I think it's gonna be pretty good or god awful with no inbetween. Jenks should at least be solid, but Thornton hasn't shown any consistency, Linebrink is still a question mark, can Dotel stay healthy for another season? Russel will hopefully improve, but who knows. Carrasco should be solid though, and Poreda, if his stuff is there, can be dominant.