Does that mean that Timothy Geithner who didn't pay taxes and lied about it is unpatriotic? Does that mean that Health and Human Services nominee Tom Daschle who ran into a little glitch when it was discovered he didn't pay taxes either is unpatriotic? Does that mean that first chief performance officer nominee Nancy Killefer, who failed for a year and a half to pay employment taxes on household help is unpatriotic? And who can forget everyone's favorite tax dodger House Ways and Means Chairman Charles Rangel (D-NY). I had to throw that litttle info in the () just for Tex.

 

Remember, repubicans were scolded for not wanting to pay thier taxes, Biden in interviews has said its time to be patriotic, pay our fair share under the new Obama plan, and help America! So what does that make all these promonent Democrats? Since we couldnt question their patriotism for rooting for America to do bad in Iraq, can we question it now? Just askin'.

 

 

 

oy vey

So conservatives aren't done calling Dems unpatriotic I guess.

This topic has been discussed quite a bit in here. Did we really need a seperate thread for you to vent your obvious anger and create another sweeping indictment of anyone in a given party?

 

I have given every politician a pass on most tax issues that arise from deductions, unusual income, etc. I've even given them passes in the household help. How many of us have used unlicensed day care provided by friends and paid cash, I know I have. It was the best quality program for an affordable price in the neighborhood.

 

I would hazard a guess that most public officials have a higher rate of clean returns than the average taxpayer of the same income range. Can you "buy" patriotism? I guess so.

 

And it is nice that Alpha is agreeing with a Dem, that may be the first time.

But if Geithner and Daschle sport a 'support the troops' magnet that was made in China will that equal things out?

I have given every politician a pass on most tax issues that arise from deductions, unusual income, etc. I've even given them passes in the household help. How many of us have used unlicensed day care provided by friends and paid cash, I know I have. It was the best quality program for an affordable price in the neighborhood.

 

I would hazard a guess that most public officials have a higher rate of clean returns than the average taxpayer of the same income range. Can you "buy" patriotism? I guess so.

 

And it is nice that Alpha is agreeing with a Dem, that may be the first time.

Tex, politicians should have the CLEANEST tax returns you can imagine, since you know it always comes back to bite them in the ass when they don't. Do you seriously give Rangel a pass for his failure to pay taxes? And this isnt the first tax problem for Daschel. I posed a serious question. if Biden claims that it is patriotic to pay our fair share of taxes, is he then calling Daschel, Rangel and the others unpatriotic? Or do they get a pass because of the D after their names?

Tex, politicians should have the CLEANEST tax returns you can imagine, since you know it always comes back to bite them in the ass when they don't. Do you seriously give Rangel a pass for his failure to pay taxes? And this isnt the first tax problem for Daschel. I posed a serious question. if Biden claims that it is patriotic to pay our fair share of taxes, is he then calling Daschel, Rangel and the others unpatriotic? Or do they get a pass because of the D after their names?

Asking about the tax malfesance of high level officials is definitely a serious and good question.

 

Making spurious claims that it makes them unpatriotic, or that they get a pass because they are Dems, seem silly to me.

 

It does seem to be a lot of Dems lately, though. You'd think Larry Flint would have paid someone to dig up some GOPers that didn't pay their taxes by now, which, of course, makes it OK.

Edited February 4, 200917 yr by mreye

I think the "patriotic" idea is over the top, but I do think they are viewed differently because of the "D" behind their names.

It does seem to be a lot of Dems lately, though. You'd think Larry Flint would have paid someone to dig up some GOPers that didn't pay their taxes by now.

Oh its definitely Dems right now, its a Dem President. Well, Geithner is really neither, and might lean GOP, from what I have read. And he actually got in. Daschle is definitely a Dem, I know nothing about the Performance Czar person.

 

I just think that things like tax evasion, which aren't about the political job per se, shouldn't be framed by party. Wrong is wrong, and you see people in both parties doing things wrong. By making it about a party, if its isn't actually the party itself doing it, is dangerous. Its similar to indicting any other group of people based on the conduct of some people in that group - could be a religion, for example.

 

Tex, politicians should have the CLEANEST tax returns you can imagine, since you know it always comes back to bite them in the ass when they don't. Do you seriously give Rangel a pass for his failure to pay taxes? And this isnt the first tax problem for Daschel. I posed a serious question. if Biden claims that it is patriotic to pay our fair share of taxes, is he then calling Daschel, Rangel and the others unpatriotic? Or do they get a pass because of the D after their names?

 

Are you seriously concerned about a comment that Biden made? OK, based on Biden's comment, Biden should consider them unpatriotic. I'm not certain how important Biden's opinion on patriotism is. But it seems that you are very concerned about Biden's definition. I'm wondering why

I've been audited and lost over deductions for income I earned while working in Mexico. I assume then that Biden might consider me unpatriotic, but I would not agree. I filed what my tax preparer thought was a proper return.

Oh its definitely Dems right now, its a Dem President. Well, Geithner is really neither, and might lean GOP, from what I have read. And he actually got in. Daschle is definitely a Dem, I know nothing about the Performance Czar person.

 

I just think that things like tax evasion, which aren't about the political job per se, shouldn't be framed by party. Wrong is wrong, and you see people in both parties doing things wrong. By making it about a party, if its isn't actually the party itself doing it, is dangerous. Its similar to indicting any other group of people based on the conduct of some people in that group - could be a religion, for example.

 

Like Catholic Priests?

 

I've been audited and lost over deductions for income I earned while working in Mexico. I assume then that Biden might consider me unpatriotic, but I would not agree. I filed what my tax preparer thought was a proper return.

The reason I thought that Tom Daschle's mistake was something particularly insidious was that I find it far more difficult to believe that he believed he had properly accounted for everything when he filed his returns than I do with say, Geithner, whose mistake I can understand.

Like Catholic Priests?

Yes, good example.

 

I imagine most people here have had some pretty straightforward tax returns. Perhaps my judgment is clouded by years of working overseas, being paid as an outside vendor, owning a business, etc. As I mentioned before, I have been audited, and have lost. It could be said I was evading taxes, but that gives a connotation that I believe is unfair. How many here are evading taxes by not claiming income from their eBay sales? How many have paid the neighborhood teenager to babysit? You pay her $10-$20 once a week and soon she has an income that should be declared. Did you file the necessary paperwork?

I think a fairer question would be what does it say about the Obama/Biden group that they have repeated nominated people with major legal issues. There are only a few possibilities here which I can think of...

 

1. They didn't know, and the vetting process was a failure

2. They knew and didn't think the public would care, so they tried to fly them through

3. They knew and didn't think that even if there was a public notice of the problems, that the political capital of their win in November would be enough for their nominees to get in anyway.

 

All three of these sound like things the Bush administration was ragged on for eight years.

I think a fairer question would be what does it say about the Obama/Biden group that they have repeated nominated people with major legal issues. There are only a few possibilities here which I can think of...

 

1. They didn't know, and the vetting process was a failure

2. They knew and didn't think the public would care, so they tried to fly them through

3. They knew and didn't think that even if there was a public notice of the problems, that the political capital of their win in November would be enough for their nominees to get in anyway.

 

All three of these sound like things the Bush administration was ragged on for eight years.

 

4. The people nominated did not know of their personal issues.

5. The people nominated did not disclose all of their personal issues.

 

Let's not let off these people scott free.

4. The people nominated did not know of their personal issues.

5. The people nominated did not disclose all of their personal issues.

 

Let's not let off these people scott free.

 

That is what the vetting process is for.

 

4. The people nominated did not know of their personal issues.

5. The people nominated did not disclose all of their personal issues.

 

Let's not let off these people scott free.

It's the job of the vetting people to assume that people being considered for positions may not disclose all of their personal issues if there are in fact any. Or at least it's supposed to be.

The entire vetting issue has gotten too out of hand. And just like I said for Bush's picks, I can say here, discovering this stuff is why we have confirmation hearings. The process is working as long as this stuff is discovered and dealt with.

That is what the vetting process is for.

 

Agreed. But we have had these sorts of surprises for 20+ years. Are we seriously going to believe any administration can solve this? We have an entire process, including the hearings. I'm not going to blame any President or staff when the process turns up these sorts of issues. When these sort of issues are not discovered until the person takes office, then we can look at the process and begin to see where mistakes were made.

 

So while some go flipping based on who the President is, I'm staying consistent. It's kind of nice

How many Americans on average per year as a % would cheat on their taxes though?

 

Homer Simpson did. Does that make him unpatriotic?

It's the job of the vetting people to assume that people being considered for positions may not disclose all of their personal issues if there are in fact any. Or at least it's supposed to be.

 

That does not excuse someone from lying or withholding information. That is what a responsible person should do. Shifting their bad behavior to someone else, seems wrong to me.