Chris Getz named 2b

[ThunderBolt]

Rookie of the Year candidate?

Not as long as Matt Wieters graces this planet with his presence.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Thunderbolt

[Princess Dye]

Why was Flowers acquired BearSox? Why was he the center piece of the Vazquez deal? Do you think he would have been the center piece of the deal if he was DH'ing most of the time in A ball? Or is it possible his value is highly increased because he has a strong bat at incredibly weak position across baseball?

 

Right, but I think the difference is that Flowers projects to be a (maybe) good hitter for the catching spot, whereas Beckham many believe will be a top flight hitter regardless of position.

 

 

 

If we're just talking purely about ceilings that is.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Princess Dye

[lostfan]

Right, but I think the difference is that Flowers projects to be a (maybe) good hitter for the catching spot, whereas Beckham many believe will be a top flight hitter regardless of position.

That's kind of contradictory - a premium bat at C or SS is like finding the holy grail. There's a big difference between Beckham being a serviceable SS and putting up quality production and Beckham just being a decent LF. The only one that wouldn't be a significant step down would be 2B.

 

response to your edit: if his ceiling is being a solid defender at SS and being an .850-.900 OPS type player, that's one of the most sought after players in baseball.

Edited March 22, 2009 by lostfan

[Princess Dye]

That's kind of contradictory - a premium bat at C or SS is like finding the holy grail. There's a big difference between Beckham being a serviceable SS and putting up quality production and Beckham just being a decent LF. The only one that wouldn't be a significant step down would be 2B.

 

response to your edit: if his ceiling is being a solid defender at SS and being an .850-.900 OPS type player, that's one of the most sought after players in baseball.

 

I'm probably misrepresenting what I mean.

 

By all means Beckham has greater trade value if he stays as an SS here.

 

 

But if youre fully stocked in the IF and have an opening in LF...... there are some players you would hesitate to move there. Beckham you wouldnt hesitate with because he's a good enough bat to be a corner outfielder and not have your organization lose a step.

 

 

If Getz doesnt pan out, then by all means keep Becks in the IF.

 

 

 

 

I mean we have all this young cheap talent, so we're set up for years potentially with young players here. A lot of guys who can play 2b/SS/3b. The decision may come down to just flat out evaluating how good a SS Alexei is. If Alexei is top flight at this position, you make moves to work around that.

 

If Alexei is just OK, and is the only one who can play CF, then he moves there. I would have to believe though that we have a real (maybe leadoff) CF somehow in 2 yrs.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Princess Dye

[Princess Dye]

It's not all about trade value. I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't think you are looking bigger picture.

 

Here is an example.

 

.296/.371/.471/.842 100R, 20 HR, 100 RBI, 22 SB. Those numbers get put up by a 2B or SS, he is a superstar.

 

Instead, those numbers were put up by Bobby Abreu last season, and it got him a 1 year, 5 million dollar deal this offseason.

 

even better! then it's a great value to keep him there and save some dough one day!

 

but his future free agency totally aside, is it more valuable to us to have a player be a superstar, or to fill all the slots on the team. I would hate to bench Chris Getz and have a 4th OF type in LF, all because we wanted to maximize Becks' superstar value.

 

 

 

There are a few superstar level guys in the last decade that changed positions for the good of the team. That has to always come first.

 

Frighteningly, the argument you make would probably be the same line of logic used by A.Soriano when he was refusing to play i think LF a few yrs back. I think Soriano's an example where his team eventually was better served by him moving to OF. I dont think Becks will play defense as bad as him in the IF, but if Getz is solid then we may be faced with that decision.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Princess Dye

[BearSox]

Why was Flowers acquired BearSox? Why was he the center piece of the Vazquez deal? Do you think he would have been the center piece of the deal if he was DH'ing most of the time in A ball? Or is it possible his value is highly increased because he has a strong bat at incredibly weak position across baseball?

I for one believe that Flowers will eventually be a DH/1B base type. I think we made that deal to save salary and acquire 4 good young players. Sure Flowers value increased with the fact he might be able to play catcher, but I think KW and the scouts who informed KW said that Flowers is not a sure thing at catcher.

 

Also, unless we are planning on trading Beckham anytime soon, this shouldn't matter. Right now Beckham is a part of OUR future, not another team's. And if we need his bat next year, and we have Getz and Ramirez producing up the middle, we will find a spot for him. Also, just because he plays one position for a year or two doesn't mean he will automatically never be able to play his other position ever again.

[BearSox]

It's not all about trade value. I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't think you are looking bigger picture.

 

Here is an example.

 

.296/.371/.471/.842 100R, 20 HR, 100 RBI, 22 SB. Those numbers get put up by a 2B or SS, he is a superstar.

 

Instead, those numbers were put up by Bobby Abreu last season, and it got him a 1 year, 5 million dollar deal this offseason.

I get you're point, but this isn't about "superstar" status or anything like that, it's about what's best for the team. If we got Alexei played very good D at short and hitting .290 with 20 homers, 70+ rbi's, and 20+ stolen bases, and Getz playing solid D at second with a .280 BA and .355 OBP and leading off, why would you change that because Gordon Beckham putting up good numbers at SS or 2B look better then the numbers he puts up as a LF?

[BearSox]

You're asking me a question that I never had a disagreement with. That isn't the point I'm arguing.

 

\

What was this whole discussion about then?

[SoxAce]

OMFG... Look, Chris Getz' ceiling is very, very limited. He has a chance to be a damn fine ballplayer, but he will NEVER be an all-star and he if even sniffs the chance of lucking out to be one, then mostly every second baseman has to be injured or us as fans really rally, to vote him in as an alternate. He just does not have the tools (hell Nix has waaaaay better tools, if he put it all together, all-star type player, but he probably just won't hit enough at the MLB level which happens all the time with certain players). Now when Beckham is ready to man second/short and Alexei either switches to second, stays at short, or center and Getz is putting up .750-.800+ ops here then that's one thing. But the sox brass is smart enough to know that Getz is very a very valuable utility player in the future than a regular starter who will still get his at bats in. I see Getz more as a one year filler for Slayer who is just a stud with his bat in a valued position at SS or 2B (hell if the sox even entertain the thought of trading Slayer, his trade value as a 2B/SS dramatically increases and you can get more for him, that's what Tony is saying, which is correct) It's obviously a good problem to have for us next season or even later on this season for all we know, but until then, we'll have to see how things shake out.

[witesoxfan]

OMFG... Look, Chris Getz' ceiling is very, very limited. He has a chance to be a damn fine ballplayer, but he will NEVER be an all-star and he if even sniffs the chance of lucking out to be one, then mostly every second baseman has to be injured or us as fans really rally, to vote him in as an alternate. He just does not have the tools (hell Nix has waaaaay better tools, if he put it all together, all-star type player, but he probably just won't hit enough at the MLB level which happens all the time with certain players). Now when Beckham is ready to man second/short and Alexei either switches to second, stays at short, or center and Getz is putting up .750-.800+ ops here then that's one thing. But the sox brass is smart enough to know that Getz is very a very valuable utility player in the future than a regular starter who will still get his at bats in. I see Getz more as a one year filler for Slayer who is just a stud with his bat in a valued position at SS or 2B (hell if the sox even entertain the thought of trading Slayer, his trade value as a 2B/SS dramatically increases and you can get more for him, that's what Tony is saying, which is correct) It's obviously a good problem to have for us next season or even later on this season for all we know, but until then, we'll have to see how things shake out.

 

I want to actually see Getz play during the season before I declare him a very valuable utility man.

 

.302/.366/.448/.814

.305/.384/.426/.810

 

The top is Chris Getz as a 24 year old in AAA. The bottom is Dustin Pedroia as a 22 year old in AAA, repeating the level. The only real difference is that Pedroia struck out half the amount of Getz (27 K's to 53 K's), but it's a pretty solid comparison. Getz showed much better power in AAA than Pedroia, and Pedroia put up 48 XBHs as a rookie, and 73 last year.

 

I'm not about to declare that Getz will win an MVP within the next 2 seasons, just that it's very possible Getz could be a damn fine starter and that someone will have to move because Getz is as good as he is.

[ThunderBolt]

Chris Getz's pecota comparables are Mickey Morandini, Jeff Huson, Ken Boswell, and Ed Giovanola not great company, yes, but he's hit well in the majority of simulations i've done

[witesoxfan]

On top of those raw statistics, here are some other fun ones

 

Pedroia - 47.9% GB% 18.1% LD% 33.7% FB% 10.8% IF/F%

Getz - 45.0% GB% 19.2% LD% 35.6% FB% 14.7% IF/F%

 

Getz was hitting more line and more balls in the air than was Pedroia, though some of those were on the infield. Those numbers, though they're vague, tell me that Getz has a strong possibility of being a pretty damn good hitter at the majors.

[scenario]

Here's a link to Getz's player page at Michigan.

 

Some interesting facts about his college career in there.

 

One of the most striking... the percentage of games where he got at least one hit. For example, he got 1 or more hits in 85 of his last 100 college games. That caught my attention because he's had a few long hitting streaks in the minors too. Just seems like he has a knack for getting on base consistently without slumps. Gotta like that.

 

 

[SoxAce]

I want to actually see Getz play during the season before I declare him a very valuable utility man.

 

.302/.366/.448/.814

.305/.384/.426/.810

 

The top is Chris Getz as a 24 year old in AAA. The bottom is Dustin Pedroia as a 22 year old in AAA, repeating the level. The only real difference is that Pedroia struck out half the amount of Getz (27 K's to 53 K's), but it's a pretty solid comparison.

 

Ah, another Pedroia comparision. The comparision is legit enough, but Pedroia just is the better player. .308 .392 .454 846; .286 .361 .381 742 The first one is Dustin's career minor leagues numbers, who is also two years younger at every stop. He has more power (though not much) a bit better eye, more XBH, a better OBP, the better OPS, and Getz is probably going to be the better base stealer, and will probably leg out more triples. The best comparison Getz has had was a poor man's Pedroia, which isn't bad to say at all, but isn't one of those star-type guys to have, he'll be hella solid for you, but one who you can easily move, make a super good utility man, or future trade bait. I don't want to sound like a Getz hater, and I know for sure playing in another sandbox at our park will definitely up his numbers just like his time in AAA Charlotte did, but Pedroia is just the better player. I love Getz though and if he can even come close to his AAA numbers for last season, he'll be a definite keeper and a nice problem for the future if the sox brass thinks he's solid/serivceable enough to solidify second base for us in the future.

[Chisoxfn]

I really love Chris Getz. He's faster than most people realize, rock solid defensively, and really knows how to handle a bat. He won't hit for a ton of power nor does he have tools that blow you away, but as a whole the guy flat out knows how to hit and his swing is conducive to hitting major league pitching at a similar clip as he hit minor league pitching because he has always relied on good plate discipline and a nice level swing as opposed to just relying purely on raw natural ability (and it isn't as if he has no tools or is David Eckstein). I think Getz will be the biggest surprise of the season (in a good way) and will end up leading off most of the year and will actually turn into the franchises long term leadoff guy. As a whole I think he projects better as a 2 hitter but regardless I think he'll have an MLB career where he gets on at around a .360 rate which would be pretty damn nice.

[BearSox]

I remember last year I got blasted for making the comparison of Getz as a poor man's Pedroria.

[BearSox]

I really love Chris Getz. He's faster than most people realize, rock solid defensively, and really knows how to handle a bat. He won't hit for a ton of power nor does he have tools that blow you away, but as a whole the guy flat out knows how to hit and his swing is conducive to hitting major league pitching at a similar clip as he hit minor league pitching because he has always relied on good plate discipline and a nice level swing as opposed to just relying purely on raw natural ability (and it isn't as if he has no tools or is David Eckstein). I think Getz will be the biggest surprise of the season (in a good way) and will end up leading off most of the year and will actually turn into the franchises long term leadoff guy. As a whole I think he projects better as a 2 hitter but regardless I think he'll have an MLB career where he gets on at around a .360 rate which would be pretty damn nice.

It would be utterly fantastic if Getz becomes the answer at leadoff for us. I think he could get on at least around .360 when he starts to hit his stride, and I believe he's fast enough to steal 20+ bags.

[SoxAce]

I remember last year I got blasted for making the comparison of Getz as a poor man's Pedroria.

 

Well you've said so much ridiculous things since you've been here, even the comparisions you say that actually make sense will probably be blasted cause it's like... you know.. force of habit with alot of posters here. Like I said that's probably his "best" comparison and even that, to some, is flawed though I don't mind it at all. I like 1998's Mickey Morandini is a fantastic comparision to Getz (and Mickey's stats for that year.. .296-.380-.385 100-ops +) Hell, perhaps even Mickey's 97 stats which he had 40+ XBH, which Getz can definitely do.

 

As a whole I think he projects better as a 2 hitter but regardless I think he'll have an MLB career where he gets on at around a .360 rate which would be pretty damn nice.

 

Yea Getz in the 2 hole.. he'll be just studly, even moreso than in leadoff.

[BearSox]

Well you've said so much ridiculous things since you've been here, even the comparisions you say that actually make sense will probably be blasted cause it's like... you know.. force of habit with alot of posters here.

How many times was I actually wrong though?

 

Also, I'm talking about just baseball, not my views on politics which usually I get flamed for by everyone.

[SoxAce]

How many times was I actually wrong though?

 

Also, I'm talking about just baseball, not my views on politics which usually I get flamed for by everyone.

 

Your an excellent football analyst, espeically when it comes to the Bears... I'll leave it at that.

 

 

[BearSox]

Your an excellent football analyst, espeically when it comes to the Bears... I'll leave it at that.

lol, okay, I'll take that ...

[lostfan]

How many times was I actually wrong though?

 

Also, I'm talking about just baseball, not my views on politics which usually I get flamed for by everyone.

I remember once when you got carried away and said you were in support of the United States doing summary executions and didn't realize that's what you said. Hilarity.

[BearSox]

I remember once when you got carried away and said you were in support of the United States doing summary executions and didn't realize that's what you said. Hilarity.

Oh, I don't mind summary executions, just depends on the person. However, this is a topic meant for another thread, another day.

[witesoxfan]

Ah, another Pedroia comparision. The comparision is legit enough, but Pedroia just is the better player. .308 .392 .454 846; .286 .361 .381 742 The first one is Dustin's career minor leagues numbers, who is also two years younger at every stop. He has more power (though not much) a bit better eye, more XBH, a better OBP, the better OPS, and Getz is probably going to be the better base stealer, and will probably leg out more triples. The best comparison Getz has had was a poor man's Pedroia, which isn't bad to say at all, but isn't one of those star-type guys to have, he'll be hella solid for you, but one who you can easily move, make a super good utility man, or future trade bait. I don't want to sound like a Getz hater, and I know for sure playing in another sandbox at our park will definitely up his numbers just like his time in AAA Charlotte did, but Pedroia is just the better player. I love Getz though and if he can even come close to his AAA numbers for last season, he'll be a definite keeper and a nice problem for the future if the sox brass thinks he's solid/serivceable enough to solidify second base for us in the future.

 

I don't see how you can know that Pedroia is a better player when Getz has had all of 7 career at bats. I don't understand how you can say he has better power when, once again, Getz has had all of 7 career at bats. I can say with certainty that Pedroia is almost undoubtedly the better player, but without ever having seen Getz actually play a full major league season, there is no way to know it just yet. For all we know, Getz could turn into the Sox next Ray Durham minus the great speed, putting up 15 homer power, along with good gap power, a good eye at the plate, and 15-20 stolen bases. Perhaps he could be better, perhaps worse. Maybe he's Mark Grudzielanek from the left side. Maybe he is Mickey Morandini. There's no way of saying until Getz is actually in the majors. What you can say is that he has a pretty solid track record along with good peripheral statistics and that, according to those, he should be a damn fine player in the major leagues and it's entirely possible that he could be a good enough player that you move other players around to suit him. He may bomb during the first week.

 

All I know is that I'd much prefer Chris Getz to Jayson Nix, who, outside of 303 PAs in AAA in his 3rd year at the level, has proven to be a mediocre minor league player. Cory Sullivan, he of the .721 OPS in 1024 career MLB PAs, put up a .320 average and .848 OPS in Colorado Springs last season. Mike McCoy, who is a career minor leaguer with a career .707 OPS in the minors in 2700+ PAs, put up an .898 OPS in 162 PAs last year at Colorado Springs after putting up a .723 OPS in 176 PAs for Norfolk in Baltimore's system. I'm not sure why I went on this little rant other than to point out that Jayson Nix is a mediocre player and that Chris Getz is quite clearly the superior player.

[YASNY]

Whenever anyone rates a player, they refer to the "5 tools". While that is fine, I happen to think that there is a sixth tool. That's is the one between a player's ears. I think Chris Getz is one of those guys that uses that particular tool very well. I think this guy is a ballplayer.