Healthcare reform

[NorthSideSox72]

You're being trolled, Balta.

 

At least that's my working assumption.

Kap isn't a troll - he's become the loony guy ranting incoherently in the corner (in terms of his posts in this forum).

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Despite the "craziness," I think he has a point. There IS a big shift in our way of thinking, and it's not based on party. It's been going on for decades. I'm pretty certain that the people of the United States in say 1950 would not have tolerated a President saying that we don't need to be the leader of the world or that the rich have the responsibility to give some of their earnings to people less fortunate.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

They also wouldn't have tolerated a black person going to the same bathroom as a white person. Frankly, I don't give a s*** what someone from 1950 would think. We're not beholden to false nostalgia about a golden era of America that never existed.

[Jenksismyhero]

They also wouldn't have tolerated a black person going to the same bathroom as a white person. Frankly, I don't give a s*** what someone from 1950 would think. We're not beholden to false nostalgia about a golden era of America that never existed.

 

lol, and there's the problem right there.

[Balta1701]

lol, and there's the problem right there.

Black and white people using the same bathrooms?

[kapkomet]

lol, and there's the problem right there.

It says it all, doesn't it? Entitlements up the ass and a lack of appreciation for what they really have... it's no wonder they don't give a s*** about liberty and what it represents or means.

[KipWellsFan]

Despite the "craziness," I think he has a point. There IS a big shift in our way of thinking, and it's not based on party. It's been going on for decades. I'm pretty certain that the people of the United States in say 1950 would not have tolerated a President saying that we don't need to be the leader of the world or that the rich have the responsibility to give some of their earnings to people less fortunate.

 

After reading dozens of Kap's points I certainly understand your feelings but I guess I disagree with the premise. Polls seem to show that more Americans are conservative than ever before. The Supreme Court is probably more conservative than it has been in decades. TV News media and radio news media is absolutely dominated by the right. And it basically took 8 years of a completely irresponsible White House to put Obama in charge. Now, it's looking likely that Republicans will make gains again in the House and Senate, so I'd relax a little.

 

And please stop trying to judge how a person views their own personal liberties. Government isn't the only thing that can oppress.

[kapkomet]

After reading dozens of Kap's points I certainly understand your feelings but I guess I disagree with the premise. Polls seem to show that more Americans are conservative than ever before. The Supreme Court is probably more conservative than it has been in decades. TV News media and radio news media is absolutely dominated by the right. And it basically took 8 years of a completely irresponsible White House to put Obama in charge. Now, it's looking likely that Republicans will make gains again in the House and Senate, so I'd relax a little.

 

And please stop trying to judge how a person views their own personal liberties. Government isn't the only thing that can oppress.

 

You can say that with a straight face?

 

And if more Americans are "conservative" than ever before... then surely you can understand that health care, cap and tax, stimulus (aka, the black hole of Democrat coffers), TARP, immigration, etc. are NOT what "more Americans" want. And yes, that goes back to the last president, who I have several issues with on these issues.

[Balta1701]

You can say that with a straight face?

 

And if more Americans are "conservative" than ever before... then surely you can understand that health care, cap and tax, stimulus (aka, the black hole of Democrat coffers), TARP, immigration, etc. are NOT what "more Americans" want. And yes, that goes back to the last president, who I have several issues with on these issues.

LOL, it's nice to be able to protect BP and GS and all your other friends at the banks on one hand while railing at the Democrats and then state on the other that you're not really saying anything to defend them.

 

I can say the same thing if I try to demagogue. You know what other things America doesn't like? 10% unemployment, paying 2x more than everyone else in the world for health care, deporting people for looking Mexican, and having hteir cities drown in combinations of water an oil.

[Y2HH]

TV News media and radio news media is absolutely dominated by the right.

 

Seriously, I have to step in here and bring some sanity back to the conversation.

 

Do you *honestly* believe what you just said? Because that is so far from true it's not even funny. The fact you even wrote that/and or had that thought shows how biased you really are.

 

Fox News is the ONLY right wing media on television.

 

NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, the Chicago Tribune, NY times, Huff Post, Washington Post, Sun times are ALL liberal news organizations. For you to even pretend otherwise is ridiculous. Of that list, CNN is the closest to center as I've seen, but even they lean left.

 

The radio is a bit closer, but even then, the right wing doesn't dominate. The only thing the right wing has is more popular/higher rated programs, but they have far fewer of such programs. Remove Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck from the radio and people would assume no conservatives existed on the radio waves anymore.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

Wait, did you seriously just say that the Trib is liberal?

 

And conservatives absolutely dominate talk radio.

Edited June 29, 2010 by StrangeSox

[NorthSideSox72]

Seriously, I have to step in here and bring some sanity back to the conversation.

 

Do you *honestly* believe what you just said? Because that is so far from true it's not even funny. The fact you even wrote that/and or had that thought shows how biased you really are.

 

Fox News is the ONLY right wing media on television.

 

NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, the Chicago Tribune, NY times, Huff Post, Washington Post, Sun times are ALL liberal news organizations. For you to even pretend otherwise is ridiculous. Of that list, CNN is the closest to center as I've seen, but even they lean left.

 

The radio is a bit closer, but even then, the right wing doesn't dominate. The only thing the right wing has is more popular/higher rated programs, but they have far fewer of such programs. Remove Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck from the radio and people would assume no conservatives existed on the radio waves anymore.

The Trib is actually pretty much universally seen as right of center - I'm not sure how you put them on that list. The Sun Times is the liberal paper in town, always was. Trib at this point isn't very far right though, they might be basically in the middle.

 

 

[Y2HH]

The Trib is actually pretty much universally seen as right of center - I'm not sure how you put them on that list. The Sun Times is the liberal paper in town, always was. Trib at this point isn't very far right though, they might be basically in the middle.

 

Whatever. Out of a list of 8 or so, I misplaced ONE.

 

Remove the Trib from the equation and you STILL have a very left leaning operation here.

 

And just stop with the "radio is dominated by conservatives" nonsense, because that's what it is, nonsense. There are just as many liberal commentators on the radio. Maybe you need to take your head out of the sand and actually turn on a radio, because it's obvious you haven't in about 20 years.

 

And way to dismiss and gloss over the fact you said "TV is dominated by the right", which is the biggest joke I've EVER read on this website.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Y2HH

[Balta1701]

The problem is...you calling those news sources liberal has as much meaning as me saying they're conservative. For every example you give, I could fire back with another. You could give CBS and Bush's 2004 guard document story, and I could fire back with the Iraq war. You could fire off the Obama campaign as the media swooning over my guy, and I could fire back the Gore/Bush campaign for the media swooning over the Republican. We'd go around in circles, I'd call your articles from Bernard Goldberg crap, you'd call my Media Matters posts crap.

[StrangeSox]

And way to dismiss and gloss over the fact you said "TV is dominated by the right", which is the biggest joke I've EVER read on this website.

 

Neither NSS nor I said that, and Rex hasn't responded to your post. I don't know who you're addressing.

 

Whatever. Out of a list of 8 or so, I misplaced ONE.

 

Remove the Trib from the equation and you STILL have a very left leaning operation here.

 

I think it shows you're being sloppy and reckless with what you label as liberal.

 

I might be willing to give you a general pro-Democrat slant for CBS, NBC, ABC. I'll give a pro-liberal lean for MSNBC. But Democrat doesn't mean liberal.

Edited June 29, 2010 by StrangeSox

[Y2HH]

The problem is...you calling those news sources liberal has as much meaning as me saying they're conservative. For every example you give, I could fire back with another. You could give CBS and Bush's 2004 guard document story, and I could fire back with the Iraq war. You could fire off the Obama campaign as the media swooning over my guy, and I could fire back the Gore/Bush campaign for the media swooning over the Republican. We'd go around in circles, I'd call your articles from Bernard Goldberg crap, you'd call my Media Matters posts crap.

 

First, we aren't talking about the past, we are talking about now.

 

Second, I'm not even talking about one off comparisons of a specific instance in which the media agreed with someone. I'm simply stating that he said the TV and Radio was dominated by the right wing, and to even say/think that is an absolute joke.

 

You could possibly argue the radio is more even, however, television is NOT -- there is *ONE* major right wing news organization in the ENTIRE US (FOX). To pretend otherwise is ridiculous, so just stop.

[StrangeSox]

But all of the rest are still pro-business, pro-establishment, so they're not exactly left wing, either. Don't conflate Democrats with liberals.

[Balta1701]

You could possibly argue the radio is more even, however, television is NOT -- there is *ONE* major right wing news organization in the ENTIRE US (FOX). To pretend otherwise is ridiculous, so just stop.

And there are zero parallels to Fox on the left. You'll fire back MSNBC with Olbermann and Maddow, and then I'll ask who the Fox version of Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan from the left are.

 

It's only ridiculous because you're a conservative. I think it's just as ridiculous to declare everyone but Fox to be a bunch of liberals.

[Y2HH]

And there are zero parallels to Fox on the left. You'll fire back MSNBC with Olbermann and Maddow, and then I'll ask who the Fox version of Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan from the left are.

 

It's only ridiculous because you're a conservative. I think it's just as ridiculous to declare everyone but Fox to be a bunch of liberals.

 

Once again, I'm NOT a conservative. I'm as middle as middle gets. I hate BOTH sides. Our last president was a f***ing douchebag, and our current president is a f***ing douchebag.

 

And if you honestly think Olbermann and Maddow are the only left wingers on TV, there is no point talking to you -- it's obvious you know next to nothing. And at this point, it's insulting to even try talking to you, as you're playing dumb on purpose.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Y2HH

[GoSox05]

The right has done a great job of taking moderates and making them into the left. Chris Matthews is not the left. When someone like Amy Goodman or Thom Hartmann get a prime time show, than we can talk about the left getting TV time.

[Balta1701]

And if you honestly think Olbermann and Maddow are the only left wingers on TV, there is no point talking to you -- it's obvious you know next to nothing. And at this point, it's insulting to even try talking to you, as you're playing dumb on purpose.

That's not what I said, I admitted them, I asked where their parallel was on Fox.

 

Of course there are other liberals on TV, but there are plenty of conservatives on other networks as well. Like I said, if you wanted to pick your issue and start coming up with reports from FAIR, I'd start replying with media matters posts on how issue x that the Left cares about got no coverage, and all we'd do is go back and forth. Which is where we're going.

 

No matter what I'd be willing to cite, you know you're right in the middle of the spectrum, and therefore anyone to the left of you must be liberal, and anyone who challenges that is insulting you.

[StrangeSox]

Remember Fox's awful attempt at a Daily Show-like news satire? Man that was awful.

[StrangeSox]

The right has done a great job of taking moderates and making them into the left. Chris Matthews is not the left. When someone like Amy Goodman or Thom Hartmann get a prime time show, than we can talk about the left getting TV time.

 

Yes, the right is on the radio and TV and in print whining about liberal domination pretty much 24/7.

 

Talk radio is absolutely dominated by conservatives. Savage, Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, Medved, Miller and dozens of Christian radio hosts vs. what on the left? A few shows on NPR that air several times a week? The most pro-liberal/ anti-conservative talk I hear on the radio comes from Bernstein.

Edited June 29, 2010 by StrangeSox

[Y2HH]

That's not what I said, I admitted them, I asked where their parallel was on Fox.

 

Of course there are other liberals on TV, but there are plenty of conservatives on other networks as well. Like I said, if you wanted to pick your issue and start coming up with reports from FAIR, I'd start replying with media matters posts on how issue x that the Left cares about got no coverage, and all we'd do is go back and forth. Which is where we're going.

 

No matter what I'd be willing to cite, you know you're right in the middle of the spectrum, and therefore anyone to the left of you must be liberal, and anyone who challenges that is insulting you.

 

Don't get me wrong, on Fox there is PLENTY of conservatives, some of which disguise themselves as centrists (like Beck tires to do), but the majority of conservatives are in one spot -- and that's Fox. That's not the say there aren't a few others sprinkled elsewhere, but they aren't the dominating opinion on said stations. To pretend NBC, ABC, or CBS are "right" dominated, is f***ing ridiculous.

 

I've heard liberals/dems say what that other guy said before -- that the tv media is dominated by the right, because it's exactly what he said, and it's just a ridiculous notion. That's all I interjected into this conversation to straighten out...because it needed to be straightened out. Sometimes when you overhear a conversation and someone says something so wrong, you just have to stop and correct it.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Y2HH

[Y2HH]

Remember Fox's awful attempt at a Daily Show-like news satire? Man that was awful.

 

I think that was called red-something or other, and yes, it was stupid.