Colon to the DL - per the Score

[Harry Chappas]

I didn't know that Jenks, Linebrink, MacDougal, Konerko, and Gobble were young, white players out of the minors? I never said Ozzie is racist. There just seems to be a disconnect between him and our minor leaguers (who have just happened to be mostly white of late).

 

I agree that it is not a race thing or even intentional. I think it is a communication and rapport thing. This probably happens more with hispanic players and white or black managers.

 

You also need to remember that Cooper controls the pitchers so Guillen probably does not have anything to do with them.

 

I think Guillen does not handle young players well for whatever reason. Mackowiak over Anderson has nothing to do with race as well as the Darin Erstad experience.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Jenks Heat

[Big Daddy Kool]

There just seems to be a disconnect between him and our minor leaguers (who have just happened to be mostly white of late).

 

 

Most of our minor leaguers from the Schaffer era have been awful, that might be the answer.

[Melissa1334]

wow! i know everyone is fustrated with this team but now ozzie is racist and has a preference for non white players? wow. dumbest things ive heard

[lostfan]

I feel kind of stupid even addressing this topic, but it has nothing to do with Ozzie being racist and everything to do with Ozzie's expectations of young players, and in the case of the Sox, most of whom happen to be white. Latin players get treated no different though. Remember Richar? He didn't last either. Ozzie favored Erstad over Anderson. Beckham and his production has probably won him over by now, and Beckham is favored over Fields obviously.

 

Honestly though name the non-s***ty Latin prospects the Sox have had. There aren't many. Most of them are white, the farm system has the occasional black player but for whatever reason not that many of them make it to the big club as prospects.

[NorthSideSox72]

Thorntons just had their kid, so Thornton is back to the team very soon. Thus less need for Richard in the pen, thus no need to run Colon out there. I think Oz and KW are both aware that Clayton is the better option. Expect Colon gone soon.

 

Pretty simple, really.

 

[fathom]

I feel kind of stupid even addressing this topic, but it has nothing to do with Ozzie being racist and everything to do with Ozzie's expectations of young players, and in the case of the Sox, most of whom happen to be white. Latin players get treated no different though. Remember Richar? He didn't last either. Ozzie favored Erstad over Anderson. Beckham and his production has probably won him over by now, and Beckham is favored over Fields obviously.

 

That's a great post, and that touches upon something that is a way bigger concern for me. If we're going to transition the organization the next few years to install guys like Flowers, Danks, Viciedo, and Mitchell into the lineup, then Ozzie has got to be more comfortable with having young players on the roster. I know him and KW are super competitive, and that's a great thing to have. However, they're going to have to deal with growing pains for these players, as all 4 of those guys I mentioned are likely to have different aspects in which they need significant work at the major league level (mostly, making contact)

[beck72]

Most of our minor leaguers from the Schaffer era have been awful, that might be the answer.

Exactly. It has nothing to do with race but everything to do with performance. The sox are trying to win, and the young players who come up must produce. The Sox call up players from AAA/ AA who are/ were supposed to be major league ready. That hasn't been the case with the sox farm system. That's an indictment of the farm system, not Ozzie, Walker, or Cooper. If the players the sox tried and failed, yet had success elsewhere, then it would be a failure of the Sox staff. But few players who didn't make it on the sox have had much success elsewhere. If Ozzie didn't handle young players "correctly", then all the Joe Borchard's, Sean Tracey's, + Arnie Munoz's of the baseball world would be playing on major league rosters now in the bigs.

 

Failure is failure, no matter the color or race of the player. If a player is called up from AAA, where they had been doing well by most statistical standards, they should be ready to play in the bigs. Most sox farmhands haven't produced when called upon. That's on the minor league farm system and the people who believed the prospects could play in the bigs.

[southsider2k5]

I feel kind of stupid even addressing this topic, but it has nothing to do with Ozzie being racist and everything to do with Ozzie's expectations of young players, and in the case of the Sox, most of whom happen to be white. Latin players get treated no different though. Remember Richar? He didn't last either. Ozzie favored Erstad over Anderson. Beckham and his production has probably won him over by now, and Beckham is favored over Fields obviously.

 

Honestly though name the non-s***ty Latin prospects the Sox have had. There aren't many. Most of them are white, the farm system has the occasional black player but for whatever reason not that many of them make it to the big club as prospects.

 

Its not performance. Its is work ethic and willingness to be taught. People that are willing to fall under these areas are fine. It is the ones who don't that are shipped out. It goes the same for the vets, but you usually have a better idea of these people, so there is less of a margin for error.

[beck72]

That's a great post, and that touches upon something that is a way bigger concern for me. If we're going to transition the organization the next few years to install guys like Flowers, Danks, Viciedo, and Mitchell into the lineup, then Ozzie has got to be more comfortable with having young players on the roster. I know him and KW are super competitive, and that's a great thing to have. However, they're going to have to deal with growing pains for these players, as all 4 of those guys I mentioned are likely to have different aspects in which they need significant work at the major league level (mostly, making contact)

Ozzie and KW are going through that now, dealing with the defensive lapses of Beckham, Getz and Alexei. And with Richard, going through some learning on the job, not throwing strikes, hoping he'll develop like John Danks and Floyd, being ready to go all of 2010, some 30 starts with a sub 4.00 ERA.

 

 

[jasonxctf]

Gordon Beckham

Chris Getz

Jayson Nix

 

Brian Anderson was a crybaby, Josh Fields wanted to quit baseball after 2007, Sean Tracy couldn't find the plate.

 

What more do you want?

[Harry Chappas]

Many players do not get multiple opportunites to succeed, they get one maybe two. Borchard got three.

 

Brian Anderson will hang around for his athleticism and may turn into a Ryan Ludwick, who knows. Teams are not really looking to pick up a guy that has failed elsewhere.

 

Once a player who has never failed before fails, I believe it takes a greater effort than many teams are willing to give to rebuild a guy. Tony LaRussa seems to do it better than anyone.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Jenks Heat

[daa84]

i dont think race has anything to do with it...but i'm fairly certain that nobody will deny that ozzie certainly, and often times wrongly, plays favorites....wise, andy gonzalez, erstad, lillibridge...all guys that stuck around way longer than they should have seemingly because they are/were on ozzies good side

[lostfan]

As much undeserved playing time as he got, I wouldn't put Lillibridge in that category. I mean, he was here while we had multiple injuries out of necessity, and when he wasn't needed anymore he was demote and Ozzie basically came out and said he sucks.

[fathom]

As much undeserved playing time as he got, I wouldn't put Lillibridge in that category. I mean, he was here while we had multiple injuries out of necessity, and when he wasn't needed anymore he was demote and Ozzie basically came out and said he sucks.

 

agreed

[wsgdf_2]

i dont think race has anything to do with it...but i'm fairly certain that nobody will deny that ozzie certainly, and often times wrongly, plays favorites....wise, andy gonzalez, erstad, lillibridge...all guys that stuck around way longer than they should have seemingly because they are/were on ozzies good side

 

 

I believe that he plays who he THINKS will give him a better chance to win the game at hand and the season for the long run.

 

A lot of times fans don't agree with his decisions so to bridge the gap they jump to the conclusion that he's "playing favorites".

 

Andy Gonzalez? The roster was devastated that season. Was he blocking someone? He was just a body taking up space because there was nobody else to use, right?

 

In 2006 I thought the Sox would have won the division if Anderson had played every day in CF instead of Mackowiack. That's because their offense was good enough to hide him. I don't buy into the personality conspiracy crap though. Ozzie wants to win as much as any of us and has been around baseball long enough to know not to let that kind of crap get in his way.

[lostfan]

I believe that he plays who he THINKS will give him a better chance to win the game at hand and the season for the long run.

 

A lot of times fans don't agree with his decisions so to bridge the gap they jump to the conclusion that he's "playing favorites".

 

Andy Gonzalez? The roster was devastated that season. Was he blocking someone? He was just a body taking up space because there was nobody else to use, right?

 

In 2006 I thought the Sox would have won the division if Anderson had played every day in CF instead of Mackowiack. That's because their offense was good enough to hide him. I don't buy into the personality conspiracy crap though. Ozzie wants to win as much as any of us and has been around baseball long enough to know not to let that kind of crap get in his way.

Erstad starting was a terrible decision. BA at the time had done nothing to lose the job and IIRC outplayed Erstad in spring training. Erstad, predictably, sucked and eventually got hurt. Worst case scenario was that BA started that season and bombed, and Erstad would've been there as a stopgap and the team would've known to cut ties with him 2 years ago. Best case scenario was that he continued his development. Neither one happened and Anderson lingered around until a few days ago.

[Balta1701]

Brian Anderson will hang around for his athleticism and may turn into a Ryan Ludwick, who knows. Teams are not really looking to pick up a guy that has failed elsewhere.

They aren't? Most teams are thrilled to pick up guys to try out in AAA even if they just have a 1% chance of reaching their potential. Hell, we've got a couple in AAA for us (JVB, for example).

[Harry Chappas]

They aren't? Most teams are thrilled to pick up guys to try out in AAA even if they just have a 1% chance of reaching their potential. Hell, we've got a couple in AAA for us (JVB, for example).

 

I am talking about the dedication an organization will put into a guy to get them on track. I personally do not think a team will favor a "flyer" pick up over an equally qualified guy that has come up through their system. The Sox will stick with Getz longer than Nix if all things were equal IMHO.

[Lemon_44]

you could argue that Ozzie has been harder on Alexei than any other player this year. I think OG gets easily frustrated with guys who waste their talent and don't do what they're supposed to. Take his comments about Lillibridge early in the year. Ozzie said if he did the right things he could make 10+ mill playing this game but if he keeps doing what he was that he'd end up playing in Korea.

[ThunderBolt]

I hope (barring a trade) that CR will be in the rotation for the rest of the year.

[Princess Dye]

We know Clayton should be a starter, but hey if he's a lockdown lefty in the pen --- and Colon can be passable as a starter -- that aint awful either.

[lostfan]

lol, I love phantom injuries in baseball.

[SI1020]

I think Guillen does not handle young players well for whatever reason. Mackowiak over Anderson has nothing to do with race as well as the Darin Erstad experience.

Race was, is, and maybe always will be our third rail of discussion matters in this country. That being said, I think Ozzie has major problems and hangups with our younger players. It reminds in a way of another Chicago big league manager who seemed to have a dislike and disconnect with his younger players.

Edited July 29, 2009 by SI1020