BPro: White Sox Top 11 Prospects

[dyuen]

I'm going to have to disagree with that. Mitchell is just more polished and I can't say Trayce has a better skill-set, although he does have more power potential.

 

Both have sick upsides, but both also have a lot to work on that puts the odds of them reaching that ceiling at much lower levels and it is why they both were outside of the top 10.

 

I would say both have the pure potential of a top 10 or so pick though.

 

Sick upside are two of my favorite words!! At least we have come a long way from the no upside picks of Kyle McCullough, Lance Broadway, Royce Ring, Kris Honel. I hated those days.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

That's a pretty good list, but I think Jones and Santeliz should swap spots and Ely and Nunez probably shouldn't be on there since it looks like he's mostly going for upside above anything else.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Sick upside are two of my favorite words!! At least we have come a long way from the no upside picks of Kyle McCullough, Lance Broadway, Royce Ring, Kris Honel. I hated those days.

Honel had terrific upside but he got hurt. I pretty much agree with the rest though. I never liked Broadway or McCulloch and I generally don't like the idea of taking a closer prospect in the first round unless the FO thinks he'll work as a starter.

[Chisoxfn]

Honel had terrific upside but he got hurt. I pretty much agree with the rest though. I never liked Broadway or McCulloch and I generally don't like the idea of taking a closer prospect in the first round unless the FO thinks he'll work as a starter.

If you had seen much of Honel in the minors, he really only had one plus pitch. The knuckle-curve he threw was extordinary, but his fastball wasn't a plus pitch and his change-up was solid.

 

BA advertised him having a plus fastball, but the reality is he was a one pitch starter with a mediocre fastball that he didn't spot that well. He also got hurt.

 

I believe people expected him to add velocity as he filled out, but it just wasn't the case. I remember one summer when he was being super hyped BA was talking a bout him sitting in the mid 90's, I go watch him pitch and he's throwing in the upper 80's, while ocassionally hitting 90/91.

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

If you had seen much of Honel in the minors, he really only had one plus pitch. The knuckle-curve he threw was extordinary, but his fastball wasn't a plus pitch and his change-up was solid.

 

BA advertised him having a plus fastball, but the reality is he was a one pitch starter with a mediocre fastball that he didn't spot that well. He also got hurt.

 

I believe people expected him to add velocity as he filled out, but it just wasn't the case. I remember one summer when he was being super hyped BA was talking a bout him sitting in the mid 90's, I go watch him pitch and he's throwing in the upper 80's, while ocassionally hitting 90/91.

Oh, I just read about him. Didn't actually get to watch him. I remember there was quite a bit of hype though, especially since he was a local product.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Here's a list of the top 10 White Sox prospects from the Hardball Times.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/fantasy/...etroit-tigers2/

 

 

[SoxAce]

Here's a list of the top 10 White Sox prospects from the Hardball Times.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/fantasy/...etroit-tigers2/

 

Looks like they are very down on Mitchell, but very high on Holmberg. I'll see what others think.

[southsider2k5]

Looks like they are very down on Mitchell, but very high on Holmberg. I'll see what others think.

 

That is also another pundit who has Morel over Viciedo. I am starting to worry about that $10 million.

[Ozzie Ball]

That is also another pundit who has Morel over Viciedo. I am starting to worry about that $10 million.

Two statistically inclined publications have put Morel over Viciedo, is that really a huge shock?

[Ozzie Ball]

Although I do expect Rogers to put Morel ahead of Viciedo also.

[caulfield12]

I don't think there's any way to start making judgements on Viciedo until AT LEAST the end of this season...and, even then, the kid will only be 20 or 21 years old.

 

With the success of Contreras and Alexei in our organization (and Alexei morphing from a Ramon Santiago utility player into a ROY candidate), we probably overestimated his overall readiness for playing in the States. You have to remember that he experienced so much early success and hype in Cuba when he was 15-16-17, then he kind of hit a lull and perhaps developed some bad habits and frustration with being "stuck" in the Cuban system where seniority is so important.

 

Ramirez was a seasoned veteran in terms of Cuban ball and already 26 and married with kids. Potential doesn't always translate into performance, nobody's a better example of that than GM's KW and Billy Beane, who both had all the baseball "tools" in the world.

 

It could be that Viciedo merely becomes an average 1B (offensively/defensively), but if you're the White Sox, you roll the dice on six Viciedos instead of one Aroldis Chapman. It's kind of like picking stocks...the White Sox aren't ever in a position to make huge bets, they have to allocate/spread their risk around. Taking on both the Peavy and Rios contracts, those are two of the riskiest/gutsiest moves KW has ever made. If either of those backfire, they will be remembered by all, before names like Viciedo, Anderson Gomes and Luis Silverio hit our tongues.

 

Whatever happens eventually with Mitchell and Thompson, that we're attempting to get more athletic and multi-tooled baseball players on the farm is a good sign, better than our money going to Dave Wilder's bar in Phoenix.

Edited November 20, 2009 by caulfield12

[BaseballNick]

If you had seen much of Honel in the minors, he really only had one plus pitch. The knuckle-curve he threw was extordinary, but his fastball wasn't a plus pitch and his change-up was solid.

 

BA advertised him having a plus fastball, but the reality is he was a one pitch starter with a mediocre fastball that he didn't spot that well. He also got hurt.

 

I believe people expected him to add velocity as he filled out, but it just wasn't the case. I remember one summer when he was being super hyped BA was talking a bout him sitting in the mid 90's, I go watch him pitch and he's throwing in the upper 80's, while ocassionally hitting 90/91.

 

I played against him my Sr. year in high school and his fastball was clocked at 96mph in that game. 96mph is fast, but his problem is that it was a flat 96mph. A good hitter will have little trouble hitting a flat 96. His knuckle-curve was nasty! On a good day, he could probably tell hitters that it was coming and it wouldn't make a difference. He threw it hard with very sharp and late break. I'd compare it to Jenks' '05 hammer.

 

Getting back to the pick of Honel, I had no problem with it. Scouts had no reason to think he couldn't add even a couple more mphs on his fastball and possibly some movement with professional coaching. His curve was pro caliber at the age of 18, so if he could learn a good change-up, then he projects as a #1 starter. He relied on his curve quite a bit so maybe that should have been a red flag about potential elbow issues.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Here's a list of the top 10 White Sox prospects from the Hardball Times.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/fantasy/...etroit-tigers2/

 

Viciedo at 7, Shelby on the list at all, and saying Mitchell was not a first round talent makes me completely ignore that writer's opinion.

[wsgdf_2]

Two statistically inclined publications have put Morel over Viciedo, is that really a huge shock?

 

Actually, BPro has Viciedo one slot over Morel... if you were referring to them.

[dyuen]

Viciedo at 7, Shelby on the list at all, and saying Mitchell was not a first round talent makes me completely ignore that writer's opinion.

 

I agree on Shelby. I am certain that Viciedo will not be a 3b. Lets hope that he hits enough to be an asset at 1b. Just talked to a Sox scout yesterday and they are very high on Mitchell right now. He said that we will love him.

[NorthSideSox72]

I agree on Shelby. I am certain that Viciedo will not be a 3b. Lets hope that he hits enough to be an asset at 1b. Just talked to a Sox scout yesterday and they are very high on Mitchell right now. He said that we will love him.

How is it you can be certain? How much have you seen him play? I personally have seen very little, so I don't know. But I got the impression the organization wasn't ready to move him yet, and still thought he might stick there with more work.

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

I also got the impression that Viciedo improved dramatically as the year went on. Hell, the reason his arm gave out was because of the extra effort he put on himself to make better throws.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Yeah I'm in no way buying any of this Morel > Viciedo stuff. If that's how other teams view Morel then trade him right now. Dayan is being underrated.

[dyuen]

How is it you can be certain? How much have you seen him play? I personally have seen very little, so I don't know. But I got the impression the organization wasn't ready to move him yet, and still thought he might stick there with more work.

 

Personally I have never seen him play live. I am just passing on some inside info I have that he will be moved. They haven't given up hope yet on him at 3b but the consensus is he will be at 1b.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Personally I have never seen him play live. I am just passing on some inside info I have that he will be moved. They haven't given up hope yet on him at 3b but the consensus is he will be at 1b.

They put him on a new diet plan and are working on his conditioning, so I imagine they'll try that first. His bat is a lot more valuable at 3B so they should make every effort to keep him there. With Teahen here they've got at least another year to work with if they start Morel in AA and Viciedo in AAA.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Yeah I'm in no way buying any of this Morel > Viciedo stuff. If that's how other teams view Morel then trade him right now. Dayan is being underrated.

 

I know.

 

Kid is twenty years old for chrissakes! He already has one pretty decent albeit far from spectacular year in AA under his belt. Some of the comments from people from the outside and from this board about him I just laugh at.

[dyuen]

They put him on a new diet plan and are working on his conditioning, so I imagine they'll try that first. His bat is a lot more valuable at 3B so they should make every effort to keep him there. With Teahen here they've got at least another year to work with if they start Morel in AA and Viciedo in AAA.

 

Absolutely hes more valuable at 3b. Just as Beckham is more valuable at 2b. They have every intention of giving him the chance to be a 3b and continue to work with him. The current thought is he will have to move but he has a shot to change people's minds. Certainly the Sox have to make future lineup projetions. If he can prove them wrong, then thats a good thing!

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Absolutely hes more valuable at 3b. Just as Beckham is more valuable at 2b. They have every intention of giving him the chance to be a 3b and continue to work with him. The current thought is he will have to move but he has a shot to change people's minds. Certainly the Sox have to make future lineup projetions. If he can prove them wrong, then thats a good thing!

Agree, which is why I think it's premature to say the least when people write off Viciedo as a 1B/corner OF. When the Sox come out and say they don't think it's going to work for him at 3B then I'll believe he's not a 3B. But the fact that they had Retherford at 2B in Birmingham after he played 3B in W-S, and the fact that they kept Viciedo at 3B after they promoted Allen, and the fact that they didn't move Beckham to 3B until they promoted him to Charlotte, plus the new diet and conditioning plans, as well as the talk about "Cora's camp" again, all tells me they're doing what they can to get him to make the necessary adjustments.

[witesoxfan]

In regards to Morel v Viciedo, it seems to me that Morel is comparable to Crede, and, crazy as it sounds, probably the more likely bet to make it as such in the majors, whereas Viciedo has Beltre-like potential. And both without the defense.

 

Viciedo has the much higher upside, was adjusting to professional baseball in the majors (and for that matter much longer roadtrips), and was like 20 years old playing in AA. This is a big year for him, but I don't think by any stretch of the imagination it's a make or break year. I do think 2011 is make or break.