Rick White all over Manual

[upnorthsox]

So White isn't suppose to say anything now huh, when should he say it after they've lost 4 of 6 on this road trip? After they've been eliminated from the playoff race?

[Jim Fainter]

Rick White is supposed to be a professional pitcher. A professional long to middle relief guy. That's his career m.o. WTF difference does it make if he comes in during the third inning or the fifth or the seventh. If the manager hands you the ball, just go out and do your best. And that reference to a couple of our key guys who were overextended is nonsense. That happens when you have a 13 inning game that you're trying your damndest to win. We should trade him to the Cardinals.

[Dick Allen]

While I agree JM needs to locked in his office during the game, Rick White should just shut his cum catcher and get somebody out. What difference does it make what inning your coming in? If he didn't suck so royally earlier in the year maybe he would have a defined role. His pitching has been more inconsistent than JM's hairbrained ideas.

[bjmarte]

I had to sit through that train wreck at the cell on Saturday. Whether or not he is right about JM, this is what I have to say to Rick White :fyou

[upnorthsox]

Ya know, I feel like I read a different article than the rest of you. I got no impression that White was talking about his personal situ but about the BP as a whole. Guess what, this is exactly what happens when you try to go with a closer by committee, it's why teams almost never do it, and if you do try you have to clearly communicate your intentions with all the pitchers. Obviously this hasn't happened.

 

And come to think of it, who was supposed to say something? Tom Gordon seems logical except there'd be people blasting him for lobbying for the closer job. Marte the same thing plus he just a young'n, Koch? Well now wouldn't that be turned into a nice little contraversy. Wunsch? only been here 2 days. Glover? Hell if White hadn't spoke up for him(which he was dead right on btw) he still might not have pitched this month. As I see it this fell to White by default, and before you go saying he shoulda said it in private how do you know he didn't? Who's to say that JM in the struggle to keep his job has shut down communication with the players and that the only way they feel they can talk to him is thru the media.

[Soxplosion]

And also, this is the kinda crap youd expect in a losing clubhouse. What kinda loser is White to speak up like this when were winning? Who the heck does he think he is? I hope JM doesnt pitch him for a month...

[Spiff]

I'd like to boo that big-mouth's ass right now.

wtf weren't you the one who said a couple weeks ago that booing someone is classless and you don't get anything out of it?

 

edit: i went back and read the thread. you said some booing was classless, some wasn't. sorry for comin after you, i just remembered it wrong.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Ya know, I feel like I read a different article than the rest of you. I got no impression that White was talking about his personal situ but about the BP as a whole. Guess what, this is exactly what happens when you try to go with a closer by committee, it's why teams almost never do it, and if you do try you have to clearly communicate your intentions with all the pitchers. Obviously this hasn't happened.

 

And come to think of it, who was supposed to say something? Tom Gordon seems logical except there'd be people blasting him for lobbying for the closer job. Marte the same thing plus he just a young'n, Koch? Well now wouldn't that be turned into a nice little contraversy. Wunsch? only been here 2 days. Glover? Hell if White hadn't spoke up for him(which he was dead right on btw) he still might not have pitched this month. As I see it this fell to White by default, and before you go saying he shoulda said it in private how do you know he didn't? Who's to say that JM in the struggle to keep his job has shut down communication with the players and that the only way they feel they can talk to him is thru the media.

KW is too blame .. again. For the 3rd year in a row, KW has given JM a closer who has failed in the 1st 1/2. Now maybe JM yanked Foulke too early last year. But then again maybe not. Foulke could not throw his change up for a strike. Koch has proven to be an even sorrier case because at least when Foulke failed at closing he has always proven his worth as a MR.

 

But I also think Jose is wrong. There's not a team in the league that sits with the same lineup all yr long. The SOX are a team that historically needs to get off to a fast start or change is inevitable. That's the cost of being a historic 2nd place finisher.

[GASHWOUND]

I don't why everybody is ripping White..Everything he's saying is the f***ing truth!!!! And you ripping White is almost like you're defending f***in Jerry!!! JERRY MANUEL! This idiot Manuel IS over using that pen, and know one really has any roles..And White saying that, I would bet is how all the guys in that pen feels..He just has the guts to stand up to Ole Stupid head Jerry..

 

And why the f*** are people saying just cause his era is over 6 he doesn't have the right to voice his feeling?!?!?! He's still part of this team and he talks to the guys down there(we don't) and I'm willing to bet he knows just a bit more on bullpen preparation and whatnot then we do. If someone has a defined role there are more likely to succeed..You got guys like Glover who pitches every 2 weeks, when he should be in fact be used in that setup role. Which would mean you wouldn't have to use Marte and Gordon everyday as setup guys..and with Botch suckin balls this whole season there's even more motivation to try and insert Glover into that 6th and 7th inning setup/middle relief role!!!

 

But NOOOOO, we're f***ing wastin a good arm down there waiting to get a blow out win or get blown out ourselves to bring him in..s***..that's nonsense!!!! This motherf***er in Manuel just doesn't get it! :fyou

 

and prior to this bad outing this past week against the Rays, he has pitched great since May 30th(posting an ear of 2.30)

But nonetheless, he's right..and now Jose is voicing his feeling on Jerry's tinkering of the everyday line-up..Which we've all complained about..

 

We need this f***ing Bozo in Manuel out of here, not White..If tomorrow I had the choice if getting rid of White or Manuel I'd pick Manuel so fast I'd get whiplash..

 

Jerry is no f***ing manager and you know it's that bad when players are speaking out to the media...That's probably an indication and feel of the whole ball club..

 

We should be praising White for speaking up now before pitchers like Marte's arm falls off by September..

 

HOORAY for RICK WHITE!!!

 

f*** YOU JERRY MANUEL!!!! :fyou

[quickman]

Gash, We are not saying Rick White is wrong in his assessment, I think we are saying he should not come out in the media with it, especailly before a critical series. I don't think putting it in print and talking on sports radio brings this team together. Furthermore I don't think saying your manager panics is good to bring to the public. Imagine if you told the customers of the company you worked for that your manager doesn't have a clue what he is doing, and that he panics when making decisions. I don't think your company or your colleages would be too happy. It's just stupid and it brings distractions to the team when trying to get into the playoffs. Keep it behind closed doors.

[Rex Hudler]

Ya know, I feel like I read a different article than the rest of you. I got no impression that White was talking about his personal situ but about the BP as a whole. Guess what, this is exactly what happens when you try to go with a closer by committee, it's why teams almost never do it, and if you do try you have to clearly communicate your intentions with all the pitchers. Obviously this hasn't happened.

 

And come to think of it, who was supposed to say something? Tom Gordon seems logical except there'd be people blasting him for lobbying for the closer job. Marte the same thing plus he just a young'n, Koch? Well now wouldn't that be turned into a nice little contraversy. Wunsch? only been here 2 days. Glover? Hell if White hadn't spoke up for him(which he was dead right on btw) he still might not have pitched this month. As I see it this fell to White by default, and before you go saying he shoulda said it in private how do you know he didn't? Who's to say that JM in the struggle to keep his job has shut down communication with the players and that the only way they feel they can talk to him is thru the media.

The point is the timing of it. Why rock the boat when the team has just won 8 out of 9 and is finally making a move for the positive? Why not speak out when the team was struggling so bad earlier?

 

Understanding the team concept is not that difficult. Speaking out at this time can do nothing but potentially rock the boat at a time when the sailing is getting smooth. Whether White is right or not is not the point. Speaking out at the time he did was very selfish and certainly does not fall within the team concept. So for him to say that the team will not win (or not make the playoffs or whatever he said) is ridiculous, because he is preaching the team, yet doing his best to cause it so self destruct.

 

If he can't see that, then he is stupid. If he knows it and he should, then he is selfish as hell. I have never given one of these to any player, but it now seems appropriate. :fyou Rick White

[LDF]

but does the pitching coach have any imput as to who is ready or not?

[Rex Hudler]

but does the pitching coach have any imput as to who is ready or not?

Yes, the pitching coach does factor in those decisions, although it is the manager's ultimate decision. Most of the time, the manager will ask the pitching coach his opinion and then decide from there.

[LDF]

Yes, the pitching coach does factor in those decisions, although it is the manager's ultimate decision.  Most of the time, the manager will ask the pitching coach his opinion and then decide from there.

so in this case there is a possiblity that the blame can he go further than jm?

 

white should just stfu

[JUGGERNAUT]

Let me put this in perspective for you. We have spent over 4.5mil on the closer position for the past 2.5 yrs & we don't have 1 closer with more than 25 sv's to show for that $$$.

 

Now who's fault is that?

How can it be JM's when KW traded Foulke this winter for Koch?

That pretty much tells me that KW had lost faith in Foulke to win the big games from his fallout against Seattle in 2001 & his horrible start in 2002.

 

Look at this:

MLB rank

5: Foulke OAK 26 svs

6: Biddle MON 25 svs

8: McDougal KC 24 svs

9: Guardardo MIN 24 svs

25: Koch CWS 11 svs

32: Marte CWS 7 svs

 

Now what's wrong with that picture?

 

One thing we failed to take into consideration was the spacious dimensions of Network Colliseum.

In Foulke's 46 gms, 26 of them where at Network Colliseum where he has 14 svs in 17 sv opps.

Outside of Network Colliseum:

He's been rocked at Edison, Pacific Bell, Yankee Stadium, & Veterans.

 

Teams that own him:

ANA, CWS, DET, NYY, ATL, MON, PHI

 

Koch was seen throwing as high as 95MPH on Saturday. That's a start.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's wrong with that picture?

[YASNY]

The timing of White's remark is totally unexcusable. And what is the big deal of having a starting pitcher sit in the damn bullpen?

[upnorthsox]

I heard on the way in this morning that Fred and Murph had a tape of Coop's comment about White but I didn't get a chance to hear it. Did anyone else? A synopsis maybe?

[Soxplosion]

Here are my reasons for thinking Whites comments are unacceptable gash:

 

1) Were winning. You dont start problems like this on a winning team. You keep quiet about it.

2) Were going into a critical series. You dont start problems like this when youre about to play a big series.

3) Rick Whites ERA is 6.13. If he had done crap this season he wouldnt have to worry about his role. But he hasnt so he shouldnt be talking...

[cwsox]

wtf weren't you the one who said a couple weeks ago that booing someone is classless and you don't get anything out of it?

 

edit: i went back and read the thread. you said some booing was classless, some wasn't. sorry for comin after you, i just remembered it wrong.

you know in real life I don't think i have actually booed a Sox player in Sox uniform - I have muttered in the stands or at home about them - next time I see White in a game, who knows - if he has a bunch of saves for us or holds or done good, I will clap when he is announced, if not, I will clap less loudly and tell my game companion that White is an asshole.

 

But that is about all I do.

 

Hell, I never even booed Jaime Navarro or Matt Karchner.

[cwsox]

steff, forward this to white too and note that I have the copywrite on any game in which we lead by 7 or more with less than 2.1 innings to play on being RickWhiteProof™