I just came across this and thought it was hilarious how happy the Mariners fans were to get rid of Matt Thornton. I apologize if this was ever posted before.

 

http://www.ussmariner.com/2006/03/20/bye-bye-matt-thornton/

That's a good read. Us as Sox fans felt pretty good about getting rid of Borchard, but it sounded like the Ms absolutely abhored Thornton. I would say KW made a hell of a move there.

That's a good read. Us as Sox fans felt pretty good about getting rid of Borchard, but it sounded like the Ms absolutely abhored Thornton. I would say KW made a hell of a move there.

Supposedly KW made some statement similar to "Ok, you've got him, now stop asking" to Cooper after that deal went down.

But, to be fair, we were saying the same things when we jettisoned:

 

Nick Swisher

O-Cab

Aardsma (although we seem to have his number as an M's closer)

Rauch

Masset

MacDougal

Juan Uribe

Joe Crede

Willie Harris

 

ETC.

 

Yes, Thornton turned out great. Just like the acquisition of Marte around 2002, both became arguably the best LH set-up guys in baseball for 2-3 years stretches w/ the White Sox.

Edited April 26, 201015 yr by caulfield12

I think you're probably wrong about 2/3 of your list Caulfield.

thanks for posting this.

 

I always hate just as a trade is made people say which team won the trade, but now we can clearly see it was the sox and its not even close.

But, to be fair, we were saying the same things when we jettisoned:

 

Nick Swisher

O-Cab

Aardsma (although we seem to have his number as an M's closer)

Rauch

Masset

MacDougal

Juan Uribe

Joe Crede

Willie Harris

 

ETC.

 

Yes, Thornton turned out great. Just like the acquisition of Marte around 2002, both became arguably the best LH set-up guys in baseball for 2-3 years stretches w/ the White Sox.

 

are you really comparing willie harris to matt thornton?? of all those guys you list, i think the only ones who we would consider regretting are aardsma and rauch.

I think you're probably wrong about 2/3 of your list Caulfield.

 

Which of those players were you demonstrably upset about their leaving and not saying "good riddance" to basically?

 

 

Which of those players were you demonstrably upset about their leaving and not saying "good riddance" to basically?

There's a difference between being demonstrably upset with a guy leaving and being thrilled that they're gone. Harris, Crede, Uribe, Cabrera, Masset, Aardsma, I'm not exactly going to celebrate their departures. Each of them had a reason (Harris was a FA, Crede's back was gone, Cabrera we got draft picks for, Masset was moved for Griffey, etc.). Doesn't mean I'd think "Yay, this opens up a roster spot!" for them departing.

are you really comparing willie harris to matt thornton?? of all those guys you list, i think the only ones who we would consider regretting are aardsma and rauch.

 

 

You're not getting it.

 

Things didn't click with Matt in SEA. Nice guy, great attitude, easy repeatable, stress free delivery and 60+ arm, no control.

 

One session with Cooper, he's nails. Sometimes the change of scenery works wonders.

 

All of the players I listed....VERY FEW posters were super upset they were leaving (Swisher, maybe...from a talent lost perspective, but he simply had to go)....all those guys had success after leaving for various reasons.

 

Point is, KW is not always right. But 75% isn't bad.

You're not getting it.

 

Things didn't click with Matt in SEA. Nice guy, great attitude, easy repeatable, stress free delivery and 60+ arm, no control.

 

One session with Cooper, he's nails. Sometimes the change of scenery works wonders.

 

All of the players I listed....VERY FEW posters were super upset they were leaving (Swisher, maybe...from a talent lost perspective, but he simply had to go)....all those guys had success after leaving for various reasons.

 

Point is, KW is not always right. But 75% isn't bad.

 

Joe Crede played 90 games after leaving Chicago and is out of baseball this season.

 

Mike MacDougal did save 20 games for the Nats last season, and he impressed so many people that hes not in the majors this year either.

 

What has Orlando Cabrera done since 08 that he didn't do here?

Edited April 26, 201015 yr by LittleHurt05

You're not getting it.

 

Things didn't click with Matt in SEA. Nice guy, great attitude, easy repeatable, stress free delivery and 60+ arm, no control.

 

One session with Cooper, he's nails. Sometimes the change of scenery works wonders.

 

All of the players I listed....VERY FEW posters were super upset they were leaving (Swisher, maybe...from a talent lost perspective, but he simply had to go)....all those guys had success after leaving for various reasons.

 

Point is, KW is not always right. But 75% isn't bad.

 

No you are not getting it. I agree that nobody was super upset those guys you listed were sent packing. However, these Mariners fans appear to be extremely glad Thornton was traded. But the real point is how good Matt became. None of those guys you mention became all that successful to make anyone eat their words that they were traded. In contrast, any Mariners fan would be a fool to not want Matt back.

Joe Crede played 90 games after leaving Chicago and is out of baseball this season.

 

Mike MacDougal did save 20 games for the Nats last season, and he impressed so many people that hes not in the majors this year either.

 

What has Orlando Cabrera done since 08 that he didn't do here?

 

 

Ummm, winning a 2009 ALCD championship ring, perhaps?

No you are not getting it. I agree that nobody was super upset those guys you listed were sent packing. However, these Mariners fans appear to be extremely glad Thornton was traded. But the real point is how good Matt became. None of those guys you mention became all that successful to make anyone eat their words that they were traded. In contrast, any Mariners fan would be a fool to not want Matt back.

 

Aardsma would be on our roster. Masset would be long man, in Carrasco's underrated role, and spot starter. Cooper could keep working w/ him.

 

I would start Uribe as much as Ozzie plays Vizquel, who's 10+ years older and washed up.

 

Swisher would be DH or sharing time in the OF with Andruw Jones. Matsui/Damon could also be signed with all the money we're using on Rios. I think he had a pretty good year overall last year, you disgree?

 

Willie Harris could be doing better than Pierre for a fraction of the cost.

 

So could Ryan Sweeney.

 

 

 

 

Aardsma would be on our roster. Masset would be long man, in Carrasco's underrated role, and spot starter. Cooper could keep working w/ him.

 

I would start Uribe as much as Ozzie plays Vizquel, who's 10+ years older and washed up.

 

Swisher would be DH or sharing time in the OF with Andruw Jones. Matsui/Damon could also be signed with all the money we're using on Rios. I think he had a pretty good year overall last year, you disgree?

 

Willie Harris could be doing better than Pierre for a fraction of the cost.

 

So could Ryan Sweeney.

 

See that was the problem with a guy like Masset. Coop preaches movement, but Masset has more success throwing 97+ which is what he's doing with the Reds. Not all pitching coach's philosophies work on all pitchers. Same with Aardsma (whose fastball is straight as it is, but is effective when he locates it) The only guy I will give you who I like but is trapped in the hitter's hellhole for power is Ryan Sweeney. And your Uribe love sickens me. (yes I wasn't a big fan of his when he was here)

Ummm, winning a 2009 ALCD championship ring, perhaps?

 

He did that with us as well...

See that was the problem with a guy like Masset. Coop preaches movement, but Masset has more success throwing 97+ which is what he's doing with the Reds. Not all pitching coach's philosophies work on all pitchers. Same with Aardsma (whose fastball is straight as it is, but is effective when he locates it) The only guy I will give you who I like but is trapped in the hitter's hellhole for power is Ryan Sweeney. And your Uribe love sickens me. (yes I wasn't a big fan of his when he was here)

 

Juan Uribe is also not near the defensive wizard that Vizquel is. He was a very good defensive shortstop for the Sox for about 3 years, but his range is not nearly as good as it once was. Vizquel has never really lost his range, and he will be a valuable member of the White Sox simply because of that range.

He did that with us as well...

 

NOT IN 2009 HE DIDN'T!

But, to be fair, we were saying the same things when we jettisoned:

 

Nick Swisher

O-Cab

Aardsma (although we seem to have his number as an M's closer)

Rauch

Masset

MacDougal

Juan Uribe

Joe Crede

Willie Harris

 

ETC.

 

Yes, Thornton turned out great. Just like the acquisition of Marte around 2002, both became arguably the best LH set-up guys in baseball for 2-3 years stretches w/ the White Sox.

 

Ok, the bolded guys dont make any sense to be on the list. I can almost include Masset because he wouldnt even be on our current bullpen, only guy he is better than is Randy Williams. Really, Aardsma and Rauch are the 2 that got away I guess... but Rauch was traded more for attitude than performance.

Edited April 26, 201015 yr by GoodAsGould

You're not getting it.

 

Things didn't click with Matt in SEA. Nice guy, great attitude, easy repeatable, stress free delivery and 60+ arm, no control.

 

One session with Cooper, he's nails. Sometimes the change of scenery works wonders.

 

All of the players I listed....VERY FEW posters were super upset they were leaving (Swisher, maybe...from a talent lost perspective, but he simply had to go)....all those guys had success after leaving for various reasons.

 

Point is, KW is not always right. But 75% isn't bad.

I got what you're saying, and I agree. Many of those on your list did have success elsewhere, and consequently some of us wished and wanted them back. It's the change of scenery sometimes, and it's also only temporary sometimes. Let's just hope it's not temporary with Thornton.

Ummm, winning a 2009 ALCD championship ring, perhaps?

 

He also won one with us in 2008. We signed him for a year as a stop-gap. He left to Oakland, got traded at mid-season to Minnesota, didn't really perform all that better there than he did here. No one was clamoring for the return of O-Cab in 2009.

thorntons ERA+ per year since joining the sox...

 

2006: 143

2007: 99

2008: 172

2009: 170

2010: 252

I got what you're saying, and I agree. Many of those on your list did have success elsewhere, and consequently some of us wished and wanted them back. It's the change of scenery sometimes, and it's also only temporary sometimes. Let's just hope it's not temporary with Thornton.

 

Temporary? Thornton has been a machine for 3+ years now. Barring injury, I dont really see anything changing

 

He also won one with us in 2008. We signed him for a year as a stop-gap. He left to Oakland, got traded at mid-season to Minnesota, didn't really perform all that better there than he did here. No one was clamoring for the return of O-Cab in 2009.

 

I think people stopped clamoring for an Ocab return in mid-2008 when the news broke that he was calling the press box to change his errors

Temporary? Thornton has been a machine for 3+ years now. Barring injury, I dont really see anything changing

I don't either, and I suppose we got more than we ever expected from the guy especially considering what we gave up.

they give rings for division championships?

 

What about Wild Cards, are those like promise rings?