Justin Upton

[Paint it Black]

Reportedly the DBacks are floating him in trades. Doesn't this make so much sense for the White Sox? He still has 5 years of control, he is relatively cheap, and you can still drool over his tools.

[witesoxfan]

He's gonna be, like, really, really, really expensive to acquire. And more than anything it seems that Kevin Towers is simply putting Upton out there and getting feelers for him. If he finds the right offer, he may bite. I think the Sox only hope would be for Towers to value Danks or Floyd very highly, otherwise it's going to be pretty much impossible to make a deal.

[Eminor3rd]

It would be Beckham. Kelly Johnson is a FA, right?

[witesoxfan]

It would be Beckham. Kelly Johnson is a FA, right?

 

No

[fathom]

Just like with AGon, it's hard to imagine a situation where the Sox can put together the best possible package. With Sale being ineligible to be traded, there's not much with regards to cheap pitching they'd want.

[Balta1701]

Just like with AGon, it's hard to imagine a situation where the Sox can put together the best possible package. With Sale being ineligible to be traded, there's not much with regards to cheap pitching they'd want.

If the D-Backs are hoping to get a MLB-ready pitcher...John Danks could be a legitimate starting point.

[balfanman]

If the D-Backs are hoping to get a MLB-ready pitcher...John Danks could be a legitimate starting point.

 

I thought that Arizona is trying to cut costs, why would they want a pitcher who is about to get super expensive?

[fathom]

Heyman reporting that the asking price for Upton has been described as "ridiculous".

[witesoxfan]

Heyman reporting that the asking price for Upton has been described as "ridiculous".

 

is that really surprising?

[fathom]

is that really surprising?

 

Nope, but I'm sure it won't stop the ridiculous trade proposals we'll see on here.

[witesoxfan]

Nope, but I'm sure it won't stop the ridiculous trade proposals we'll see on here.

 

Gavin Floyd, Scott Linebrink, and Eduardo Escobar for Hanley Ramirez

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

So potential packages being thrown around (guessed at right now) are:

 

Jacoby Ellsbury and Daniel Bard from the Red Sox

Logan Morrison and Ricky Nolasco from the Marlins

4-5 prospects

 

If those deals can do it then the Sox are in this if they want to be.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I thought that Arizona is trying to cut costs, why would they want a pitcher who is about to get super expensive?

They could always work out a Danks-friendly extension (still paying him well), take one year of him for themselves to try to win their division with pitching ala the 2010 Giants, and then spin him off the following season for a big return as a pitcher already locked up for a couple more seasons, maybe 3.

 

Basically, when Ted Lilly gets 3/$33M and those are figures Carl Pavano and Javy Vazquez are shooting for, and Kuroda gets 1 year, $12M without even playing the market, then a Danks deal of say $6M in 2011, $9M in 2012, $11M in 2013, $14M in 2014 still looks very good - and that would be a very Danks-friendly extension IMO.

[bighurt574]

Reportedly the DBacks are floating him in trades. Doesn't this make so much sense for the White Sox? He still has 5 years of control, he is relatively cheap, and you can still drool over his tools.

 

We're get him in about 15 years.

[witesoxfan]

So potential packages being thrown around (guessed at right now) are:

 

Jacoby Ellsbury and Daniel Bard from the Red Sox

Logan Morrison and Ricky Nolasco from the Marlins

4-5 prospects

 

If those deals can do it then the Sox are in this if they want to be.

 

The Diamondbacks would hang up the phone for either one of those proposed deals, especially Ellsbury and Bard. That's ridiculous.

 

Someone on FanGraphs suggested something along the lines of Buchholz, Doubront, Kalish, and Iglesias for Upton, which is closer to what they would be looking for and still might come up short.

[Pale Sox]

I don't see us being a fit. Our most valuable position players (Alexei/Beckham) play positions they already have filled with competent players, our best prospect can't be traded until June, our other prospects aren't that good for the most part, and we aren't in a position to deal more than 1 starter or reliever (if any).

 

I would guess the DBacks would want something along the lines of Danks1, Quentin, Santos, Mitchell, Viciedo.

 

If they don't get blown away they have no reason to trade him.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Pale Sox

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The Diamondbacks would hang up the phone for either one of those proposed deals, especially Ellsbury and Bard. That's ridiculous.

 

Someone on FanGraphs suggested something along the lines of Buchholz, Doubront, Kalish, and Iglesias for Upton, which is closer to what they would be looking for and still might come up short.

Those packages were courtesy of MLBTR and given out by unnamed execs.

 

The package you're mentioning is ludicrous and well beyond anything that is actually realistic. Clay Buchholz alone is haul, and adding all that including a starting SS is just never ever going to happen. Justin Upton is talented but Theo isn't retarded. They'd already have AGon if they were willing to part with that much.

 

 

[Wanne]

I don't see us being a fit. Our most valuable position players (Alexei/Beckham) play positions they already have filled with competent players, our best prospect can't be traded until June, our other prospects aren't that good for the most part, and we aren't in a position to deal more than 1 starter or reliever (if any).

 

I would guess the DBacks would want something along the lines of Danks1, Quentin, Santos, Mitchell, Viciedo.

 

If they don't get blown away they have no reason to trade him.

 

seriously?...Upton is talented and all...but what exactly has he accomplished? I don't care how many "tools" he has...he's as prone to mental slumps as Q is. Towers is nuts if he thinks he's gonna rape somebody for Upton IMO.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I don't see us being a fit. Our most valuable position players (Alexei/Beckham) play positions they already have filled with competent players, our best prospect can't be traded until June, our other prospects aren't that good for the most part, and we aren't in a position to deal more than 1 starter or reliever (if any).

 

I would guess the DBacks would want something along the lines of Danks1, Quentin, Santos, Mitchell, Viciedo.

 

If they don't get blown away they have no reason to trade him.

Jesus Christ dude, if this is the type of s*** teams were willing to part with Upton would have been gone yesterday. Danks + Santos + Mitchell/Viciedo is a massive haul on it's own and well beyond what they got for Haren. Your package is more talent than they got all last year working as hard as they could to disassemble the entire organization. Not a chance anyone parts with anything like that.

[Pale Sox]

I don't think teams are willing to part with that (nor would I), but I wouldn't at all be shocked if that's the type of deal they're looking for. I just don't see why they would trade him if they don't get a ridiculous return. I seriously doubt they're shopping him.

 

And realistically, for teams with minor league depth, a package of #2 SP, league average OF, young RP, two B level prospects isn't a back breaker.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Pale Sox

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

A #2 starter who is young and LH and under team control isn't a back breaker? Let's ignore all the other pieces for a moment and try to remember how valuable Johnny Danks is alone. When that inevitable "Sox Listening on John Danks" post hits MLBTR go look at the comments and watch fans from the other 29 teams salivate over him. Yeah, he's valuable.

[Pale Sox]

A #2 starter who is young and LH and under team control isn't a back breaker? Let's ignore all the other pieces for a moment and try to remember how valuable Johnny Danks is alone. When that inevitable "Sox Listening on John Danks" post hits MLBTR go look at the comments and watch fans from the other 29 teams salivate over him. Yeah, he's valuable.

I know he's valuable. Justin Upton is more valuable. Not a difficult concept.

[witesoxfan]

Ken Griffey Jr

19 - .264/.329/.420/.748 108 OPS+

20 - .300/.366/.481/.847 135 OPS+

21 - .327/.399/.527/.926 155 OPS+

22 - .308/.361/.535/.896 149 OPS+

 

Justin Upton

19 - .221/.283/.364/.647 62 OPS+

20 - .250/.353/.463/.816 106 OPS+

21 - .300/.366/.532/.899 129 OPS+

22 - .273/.356/.442/.799 111 OPS+

 

He's obviously not quite Griffey, but Griffey was also one of the best of all time. I would say he appears to be one solid step below Griffey, but it's not like that would be mediocre. He's still very young and he's established himself as a good hitter already who could still end up being phenomenal. There's a ton of value in that. He hasn't even gotten close to entering his prime years yet.

 

I don't think Upton will be dealt. Towers is waiting for a package that is going to blow him away, and I don't think anyone is going to provide that. The team that probably has the best chance to acquire him would be Kansas City...we'll see whether or not Moore even wants to go there.

 

(FWIW, I really don't think Clay Buccholz would be a huge get. I think he's probably a solid #2 this year, but his ERA should have been higher this year. If anything, this year was more of a correction in his career stats between his previous 2 seasons where he gave up a ton of homers while still striking people out. He's good, but he's not nearly as valuable as Justin Upton)

[Pale Sox]

Ken Griffey Jr

19 - .264/.329/.420/.748 108 OPS+

20 - .300/.366/.481/.847 135 OPS+

21 - .327/.399/.527/.926 155 OPS+

22 - .308/.361/.535/.896 149 OPS+

 

Justin Upton

19 - .221/.283/.364/.647 62 OPS+

20 - .250/.353/.463/.816 106 OPS+

21 - .300/.366/.532/.899 129 OPS+

22 - .273/.356/.442/.799 111 OPS+

 

He's obviously not quite Griffey, but Griffey was also one of the best of all time. I would say he appears to be one solid step below Griffey, but it's not like that would be mediocre. He's still very young and he's established himself as a good hitter already who could still end up being phenomenal. There's a ton of value in that. He hasn't even gotten close to entering his prime years yet.

 

I don't think Upton will be dealt. Towers is waiting for a package that is going to blow him away, and I don't think anyone is going to provide that. The team that probably has the best chance to acquire him would be Kansas City...we'll see whether or not Moore even wants to go there.

 

(FWIW, I really don't think Clay Buccholz would be a huge get. I think he's probably a solid #2 this year, but his ERA should have been higher this year. If anything, this year was more of a correction in his career stats between his previous 2 seasons where he gave up a ton of homers while still striking people out. He's good, but he's not nearly as valuable as Justin Upton)

 

Thank you.

 

And as a side note, from what I read the DBacks were asking for Buccholz and Ellsbury. That by no means implies that's ALL they were asking for.

 

And everything I've read about their asking price is that it's ridiculous.

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I know he's valuable. Justin Upton is more valuable. Not a difficult concept.

I agree. But not THAT much more valuable and I'm probably biased towards Upton.

 

Look, in the American League and in the Cell, a now-25 John Danks - a lefty - did this over the last three seasons:

2008: 195 IP, 1.226 WHIP, 8.4 H/9, 0.7 HR/9, 2.6 BB/9, 7.3 K/9

2009: 200.1 IP, 1.283 WHIP, 8.3 H/9, 1.3 HR/9, 3.3 BB/9, 6.7 K/9

2010: 213 IP, 1.216 WHIP, 8.0 H/9, 0.8 HR/9, 3.0 BB/9, 6.8 K/9

 

This kid is f***ing good. Go float his name over on the DBacks board (wherever that is) as the centerpiece of an Upton deal and I guarantee the fans over there will not laugh at you.