Oh, I agree that change is needed. I was hoping for a massive overhaul this winter (and not more of the unsustainable retooling-on-the-fly crap that hasn't worked over the past 2 1/2 years), and was pretty surprised that they decided to ADD payroll and sign Dunn instead. So, yeah, I'm completely on board with you here. I just think that doing it while 3 games out in July, in a bad division, and with a very talented lineup whose productivity has nowhere to go but up is crazy. Why not wait until December to move guys like Quentin and Danks? Sure, you'll get a little less for them than right now, but you're still going to get decent value for those guys. And there's the added bonus of no PR hit from giving up mid-season.

You've got to admit, holding Quentin for another 2 months is always a risk because of injury. D1, ok, hold him unless someone offers the moon, especially since he's already had a down season and a stellar 2 months could make him look even better. Quentin? That's a more iffy question, it's hard to expect him to perform better than this, he's always a health risk, and there are seemingly multiple teams in competition for him to help win now. That's a real good place to be in from the perspective of doing the deal now.

 

Oh, and the replacement for Carlos has been ready for at least a month. That figures in also.

If Kenny decides to deal somebody like Quentin or Danks right now, he's effectively cutting the legs off of a team that has a very legit chance at a division title. Prematurely shutting the window of opportunity on this team would send a bad message to the current season ticket-holders, reminding them of the unprofessionally-run organization that wasn't serious about winning back in the '90s.

I think you are overblowing this whole white flag trade comparison. That trade involved 2 SP and the team's closer. It's magnitude is far greater than just a Quentin trade, especially since the fanbase knows who Viciedo is and is excited for his arrival.

I think you are overblowing this whole white flag trade comparison. That trade involved 2 SP and the team's closer. It's magnitude is far greater than just a Quentin trade, especially since the fanbase knows who Viciedo is and is excited for his arrival.

 

If anyone thinks we have a chance of anything more than a division title, they are nuts

If anyone thinks we have a chance of anything more than a division title, they are nuts

 

The 2006 St Louis Cardinals say hi

If anyone thinks we have a chance of anything more than a division title, they are nuts

 

In before '06 Cardinals reference.

 

Edit: wasn't quick enough.

Edited July 29, 201114 yr by Jordan4life

If anyone thinks we have a chance of anything more than a division title, they are nuts

IF we made the playoffs (not likely) we would be extremely dangerous based on our pitching alone.

You've got to admit, holding Quentin for another 2 months is always a risk because of injury. D1, ok, hold him unless someone offers the moon, especially since he's already had a down season and a stellar 2 months could make him look even better. Quentin? That's a more iffy question, it's hard to expect him to perform better than this, he's always a health risk, and there are seemingly multiple teams in competition for him to help win now. That's a real good place to be in from the perspective of doing the deal now.

 

Yeah, he is a health risk. But who's going to make up that level of production? I like Viciedo a lot, but he's probably not going to post an .860 OPS down the stretch. So dealing Quentin now is an offensive downgrade. And I don't think this offense can withstand that.

 

And speaking of injury risks, "Glass Jaw" Peavy is the biggest risk of all. Yet that didn't stop Kenny from dealing Jackson, who was both effective and a great insurance policy. Dumb move, IMO.

 

The 2006 St Louis Cardinals say hi

 

As do the 2006 Colts

 

The 2006 St Louis Cardinals say hi

 

I realize its an inflammatory thing to say...just feels like we are going to win just enough to make it close and flame out...Sorry for being so negative and cynical

If anyone thinks we have a chance of anything more than a division title, they are nuts

 

I concur. Against the 3 most likely AL playoff opponents, the Sox record is only 7-5 this season. No chance.

@Buster_ESPN

Buster Olney

Braves view those four guys as a hugely important part of their future; I seriously doubt they would move them for any available player.

 

He's referencing Teheran, Vizcaino, Minor and Delgado

How nice would that be to have four potential stud pitchers almost ML-ready? Sigh.

 

Granted we probably could have said that after 2000 with Rauch, Ginter and Malone to add to Garland/Buehrle/Wells.

IF we made the playoffs (not likely) we would be extremely dangerous based on our pitching alone.

 

Problem is our pitching won't be facing mediocre AL central lineups. Our chances against Boston would be at about 10%.

I think you are overblowing this whole white flag trade comparison. That trade involved 2 SP and the team's closer. It's magnitude is far greater than just a Quentin trade, especially since the fanbase knows who Viciedo is and is excited for his arrival.

 

You guys are putting way too much faith in Viciedo, who is far from a proven major league commodity. I like him a lot over the long run, but he's still very young and will have his ups and downs.

 

BTW, Mike Sirotka out-pitched Wilson Alvarez down the stretch in 1997. But nobody cared, because the damage was already done.

 

How nice would that be to have four potential stud pitchers almost ML-ready? Sigh.

 

Granted we probably could have said that after 2000 with Rauch, Ginter and Malone to add to Garland/Buehrle/Wells.

 

Braves been doin' this s*** for twenty years. They effectively exhaust every avenue in finding legitimate talent.

Problem is our pitching won't be facing mediocre AL central lineups. Our chances against Boston would be at about 10%.

We are 3-0 against them this season, all three in Boston. This series should tell some more about the match-up, but 10% is way to low. We always play the Red Sox well.

You guys are putting way too much faith in Viciedo, who is far from a proven major league commodity. I like him a lot over the long run, but he's still very young and will have his ups and downs.

 

BTW, Mike Sirotka out-pitched Wilson Alvarez down the stretch in 1997. But nobody cared, because the damage was already done.

His .840 OPS last year with a horrible walk rate is pretty damn nice.

We are 3-0 against them this season, all three in Boston. This series should tell some more about the match-up, but 10% is way to low. We always play the Red Sox well.

 

That's nice. I still think we'd have no chance. One 3-game series in 4 months doesn't do a whole lot for me. Boston is 62-29 since that 2-10 start. And they still haven't gotten jack s*** from Carl Crawford yet.

You guys are putting way too much faith in Viciedo, who is far from a proven major league commodity. I like him a lot over the long run, but he's still very young and will have his ups and downs.

 

BTW, Mike Sirotka out-pitched Wilson Alvarez down the stretch in 1997. But nobody cared, because the damage was already done.

I'm not putting faith in him. I'm merely talking about this supposed huge drop in attendance that you are suggesting would happen if KW traded Quentin. This is not a WF situation.

That's nice. I still think we'd have no chance. One 3-game series in 4 months doesn't do a whole lot for me. Boston is 62-29 since that 2-10 start. And they still haven't gotten jack s*** from Carl Crawford yet.

 

And the Sox still haven't gotten jack s*** from Adam Dunn yet.

His .840 OPS last year with a horrible walk rate is pretty damn nice.

 

38 games is a pretty small sample size. Viciedo would be far from the first player to show a flash of productivity and then tail off for a couple of years. Crede, who was an bona fide stud in the minors, put up an .826 OPS in 53 games in 2002, and then proceeded to drop below .750 until late 2005.

 

That's nice. I still think we'd have no chance. One 3-game series in 4 months doesn't do a whole lot for me. Boston is 62-29 since that 2-10 start. And they still haven't gotten jack s*** from Carl Crawford yet.

Well, we played them well after their awful start. In fact, they were 13-3 in their last 16 games before facing the Sox. We still haven't gotten s*** from Dunn, our third baseman, our second baseman, CF, barely our LF and yet we still outscored them 24-14. In the last four years, the Sox are 16-9 against the Red Sox.

Edited July 29, 201114 yr by maggsmaggs

I realize its an inflammatory thing to say...just feels like we are going to win just enough to make it close and flame out...Sorry for being so negative and cynical

 

No, it's fine if that's what you think, but to say anyone who thinks otherwise is nuts is a pretty naive statement to make given the nature of the playoffs and the recent examples of teams who have succeeded in them

38 games is a pretty small sample size. Viciedo would be far from the first player to show a flash of productivity and then tail off for a couple of years. Crede, who was an bona fide stud in the minors, put up an .826 OPS in 53 games in 2002, and then proceeded to drop below .750 until late 2005.

Sadly this is very true, but I hope Viciedo is a different case.

Sadly this is very true, but I hope Viciedo is a different case.

 

I hope so as well, but I think it's silly to make that gamble before November. Quentin will still have trad value at that point.

 

Well, we played them well after their awful start. In fact, they were 13-3 in their last 16 games before facing the Sox. We still haven't gotten s*** from Dunn, our third baseman, our second baseman, barely our LF and yet we still outscored them 24-14. In the last four years, the Sox are 16-9 against the Red Sox.

 

I don't care about any year prior to this year. This is by far the best Red Sox team since '07. Until this team blows right past .500 and consistently scores at a 4.5-5.0 run a game clip, there's no business at even insinuating that they could run with Boston.