See, I know you'll never admit it since they were always within shooting range and you can just point to the fact that they were never ___ games out, but they were clearly a sub-par team for the length of the season and they were not coming back.

 

I'm also sure someone will say that's revisionist, but there were plenty of people saying these things throughout the season.

That team was clearly struggling all year, it just so happened that no one wanted to break away in that division until late in the season. I understand KW and JR wanting to push this team and hoping it turned around without having to upset fans with a selloff, but I don't agree with that.

See, I know you'll never admit it since they were always within shooting range and you can just point to the fact that they were never ___ games out, but they were clearly a sub-par team for the length of the season and they were not coming back.

 

I'm also sure someone will say that's revisionist, but there were plenty of people saying these things throughout the season.

I know people were saying they were out of it in May when they were 10+ games out. But on the day before the trade deadline they were only 3 games back. Were they still out of it at that point? It obviously didn't pan out, but that is why more players were not traded off.

 

At any point during the 2011 season would you have said the St. Louis Cardinals were "out of it"?

I had a feeling this was going to be picked up and said so earlier somewhere and took some heat for it- but I wasn't the only one who believed it would happen. Anyway, I realize he sucked in a White Sox uniform but you figure he will have some value with that contract as trade bait now or at the deadline. Keep in mind there still is a chance we go ALL IN this year as well and have another 125M payroll. I still believe this is possible- and yes, I think the White Sox make a ton of money even with 125M on the books for player personnel despite popular belief that management would like you to think.

That team was clearly struggling all year, it just so happened that no one wanted to break away in that division until late in the season. I understand KW and JR wanting to push this team and hoping it turned around without having to upset fans with a selloff, but I don't agree with that.

I don't think it's that they want to avoid pissing the fans off...I think it's more that they've got $42 million in what is essentially sunk costs for this season for guys who are supposed to be good enough to generate a lot of wins. With that kind of money committed, it is a poor business decision to sell off and guarantee failure.

I admit I had this one wrong, and I still think it wasn't a great idea. But the bullpen does look pretty damn good right now, and can still look good trading Thornton and plugging in Santiago. Reed is a near-lock for the pen. Santos, Crain, Frasor, Ohman, Santiago and Reed are all set. Axelrod or Stewart for the long man post. And still leaves a few good relief arms in Charlotte. The bullpen should not be a problem in 2012, barring injuries or multiple unusually bad seasons career-wise. But I think that $3.5M could have been better used.

 

I want to see the rest of the off-season to say that. If we trade off a bunch of parts and don't bring Buehrle back, then I will agree. If we pretty much stay "all-in", it makes sense.

I want to see the rest of the off-season to say that. If we trade off a bunch of parts and don't bring Buehrle back, then I will agree. If we pretty much stay "all-in", it makes sense.

It makes sense if they think he's tradeable.

It makes sense if they think he's tradeable.

 

Who was the last team to pick up someone's option to trade them that same winter? I don't ever remember that happening.

Who was the last team to pick up someone's option to trade them that same winter? I don't ever remember that happening.

I can't recall it happening either...I'd imagine they're looking more towards June if that happens. Probably in no small part based on any discussions they had regarding him or their other relievers this year.

I can't recall it happening either...I'd imagine they're looking more towards June if that happens. Probably in no small part based on any discussions they had regarding him or their other relievers this year.

 

I don't see it being worth the $2ish million, if we are going to be a non-contender, to see what we can trade Jason Frasor for in 9 or 10 months.

I want to see the rest of the off-season to say that. If we trade off a bunch of parts and don't bring Buehrle back, then I will agree. If we pretty much stay "all-in", it makes sense.

 

Ballantini has been saying this since the beginning, hopefully he is right.

 

Chi_Beatnik Brett Ballantini

I'll repeat: All-In 2011 begets All-In for 2012 too, despite #WhiteSox ripping that slogan off of the ticket promos.

 

Those worried about #WhiteSox slashing budget, Exhibit A: Jason Frasor inked for 2012 at nearly $4 mil.

 

Ballantini has been saying this since the beginning, hopefully he is right.

 

Chi_Beatnik Brett Ballantini

I'll repeat: All-In 2011 begets All-In for 2012 too, despite #WhiteSox ripping that slogan off of the ticket promos.

 

Those worried about #WhiteSox slashing budget, Exhibit A: Jason Frasor inked for 2012 at nearly $4 mil.

I still think the budget is going to be cut, just in other areas.

I still think the budget is going to be cut, just in other areas.

 

Well we know for sure that the coaching staff and management budget has to be smaller now...

I know people were saying they were out of it in May when they were 10+ games out. But on the day before the trade deadline they were only 3 games back. Were they still out of it at that point? It obviously didn't pan out, but that is why more players were not traded off.

 

At any point during the 2011 season would you have said the St. Louis Cardinals were "out of it"?

 

The bold is exactly what I said you'd say. Yes, they were out of it. It was clear to anyone watching that wasn't a complete White Sox homer that they just didn't have what it would take to win it. They had horribly underperforming players all over the field, a manager that didn't care and constantly made the incorrect moves seemingly on purpose, and a team that didn't respect the manager anymore. It was obvious, but you'll never admit it.

 

And oh great, the Cardinals again get to be the one in a million chance that we point to for years to come to hold out for a miracle that isn't coming.

The bold is exactly what I said you'd say. Yes, they were out of it. It was clear to anyone watching that wasn't a complete White Sox homer that they just didn't have what it would take to win it. They had horribly underperforming players all over the field, a manager that didn't care and constantly made the incorrect moves seemingly on purpose, and a team that didn't respect the manager anymore. It was obvious, but you'll never admit it.

 

And oh great, the Cardinals again get to be the one in a million chance that we point to for years to come to hold out for a miracle that isn't coming.

You don't like the Cardinals, OK fine, was Tampa Bay ever out of it? There's 2 "one in a million" chances that happened at the same time.

You don't like the Cardinals, OK fine, was Tampa Bay ever out of it? There's 2 "one in a million" chances that happened at the same time.

 

And over the years, the Sox have not done that. Leave other teams out of this. The fact is that a lot of people knew the Sox were out of it, but a larger number only looked at the number of games back and refused to see what has proven time and again to be the fact.

And over the years, the Sox have not done that. Leave other teams out of this. The fact is that a lot of people knew the Sox were out of it, but a larger number only looked at the number of games back and refused to see what has proven time and again to be the fact.

I think this year we could all tell the Sox werent in it mentally at some point. Whether it was the coaching staff or something else, there was definitely something seriously missing.

And over the years, the Sox have not done that. Leave other teams out of this. The fact is that a lot of people knew the Sox were out of it, but a larger number only looked at the number of games back and refused to see what has proven time and again to be the fact.

 

Are you saying that because something hasn't happened before that is a proven fact that it cannot happen in the future? Be realistic, some thought the Sox were out of it and obviously they didn't pull it off, but nobody "knew" anything for sure.

Are you saying that because something hasn't happened before that is a proven fact that it cannot happen in the future? Be realistic, some thought the Sox were out of it and obviously they didn't pull it off, but nobody "knew" anything for sure.

 

Whatever general semantics you want to throw at it, many knew it wasn't happening. Those people were right. And now since they predictably failed, it was the smarter idea to believe that they were in it because there's always a literal chance until mathematically eliminated.

I think this year we could all tell the Sox werent in it mentally at some point. Whether it was the coaching staff or something else, there was definitely something seriously missing.

 

I agree with this 100%. I have my guesses as to what it was, but there was no life in this team for 95% of the season.

I agree with this 100%. I have my guesses as to what it was, but there was no life in this team for 95% of the season.

Most importantly, it never showed up any stronger than it did in April.

Most importantly, it never showed up any stronger than it did in April.

 

Except for the deadline winning streak, which is the part I don't get, but that is another story.

Whatever general semantics you want to throw at it, many knew it wasn't happening. Those people were right. And now since they predictably failed, it was the smarter idea to believe that they were in it because there's always a literal chance until mathematically eliminated.

Do you or any of those other people know any football teams that are going to cover their spread this weekend? I could really use a sure thing.

Edited November 2, 201114 yr by Leonard Zelig

Do you or any of those other people know any football teams that are going to cover their spread this weekend? I could really use a sure thing.

 

See, this stuff is just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. If someone correctly predicted the stock market crash of 1929, you'd probably say that there was no way they actually knew it was going to happen. Just a good guess.