Buddy Bell

[oldsox]

Bell has been dissed several times on SoxTalk in different threads, so I thought I would start one just on him. I'm not going to defend Bell -- Hawk can do that, but here is a chance for his critics to get specific on his shortcomings. What are the biggest complaints about Buddy Bell? Other than the below average (almost lousy) farm system he inherited.

[Jake]

IIRC, he has presided over us going from worst to not quite the worst. We're trending upward.

[Balta1701]

He was originally hired to oversee player development in October, 2007. He was promoted to vice president and assistant general manager by Hahn last fall.

[fathom]

IIRC, he has presided over us going from worst to not quite the worst. We're trending upward.

 

We're just about the worst, and this year hasn't exactly gone well so far for our minor league system. I don't think he was hired with the thought of having "just about the worst". I see very little trending upward with the Sox farm system right now.

 

This system does a good job of developing pitchers in the minors and preparing them to succeed in the big leagues. The downfall is that they couldn't develop an offensive player from the system if their life depended on it.

Edited May 12, 2013 by fathom

[Dick Allen]

We're just about the worst, and this year hasn't exactly gone well so far for our minor league system. I don't think he was hired with the thought of having "just about the worst". I see very little trending upward with the Sox farm system right now.

 

This system does a good job of developing pitchers in the minors and preparing them to succeed in the big leagues. The downfall is that they couldn't develop an offensive player from the system if their life depended on it.

In additon to his lack of devopment, he also reccommendef Teahen and Keppinger. It is alright to be wrong occassionally, everyone is. He just is never right.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Honestly, I would rather have Fathom, Dick Allen or most of the moderators here in Bell's position.

 

Maybe a "fresh" pair of eyes, an outsider's perspective...is what it would take to shake things up.

 

So sick of the "good 'ol boys" network and cronyism in baseball. He was a terrible manager, what qualifies him to judge/assess/develop minor league talent?

 

Jon Daniels has an advertising/retail/business background. He was smart enough to fill in the areas he didn't understand and build a team that easily could have won 2 consective World Series.

 

It's not rocket science. Sorry, Jeff Luhnow, who actually hired one (we can see how well that's going so far).

[fathom]

It's not rocket science. Sorry, Jeff Luhnow, who actually hired one (we can see how well that's going so far).

 

Many people think Luhnow is doing a fantastic job, especially with how he handled last year's draft.

[caulfield12]

Many people think Luhnow is doing a fantastic job, especially with how he handled last year's draft.

 

 

We'll see. They have to be patient.

 

 

Moore in KC was about to be fired, everyone was turning on him...and things finally started to turn.

He just risked his career on that Shields/Davis for Myers move.

[southsider2k5]

So does this mean Kenny didn't draft so badly afterall?

[caulfield12]

So does this mean Kenny didn't draft so badly afterall?

 

 

Why would you possibly say that?

 

And wasn't Laumann the main advisor to KW on the draft, not Bell?

[southsider2k5]

Why would you possibly say that?

 

And wasn't Laumann the main advisor to KW on the draft, not Bell?

 

So why is Bell getting blamed for the players not developing?

[caulfield12]

So why is Bell getting blamed for the players not developing?

 

 

Because he's in charge of overseeing the entire minor league system/operations.

[southsider2k5]

Because he's in charge of overseeing the entire minor league system/operations.

 

So he is bad because he can't turn bad draft picks into good players? lol.

 

[caulfield12]

So he is bad because he can't turn bad draft picks into good players? lol.

 

 

Here we go again.

 

The reverse/corollary is that there's not even a reason to have any coaching or try to develop players.

 

Guess teams like the Angels who are spending $5 million on Mike Scioscia are wasting their time, too...because there's nothing to do with players once they reach the majors. They are what they are.

 

(I seem to remember arguing for 2-3 years that Brian Anderson was NOT being mistreated/mismanaged by everyone from KW and Ozzie Guillen on down...with the theory being that everyone was holding him back from realizing his full potential, that they shouldn't have promoted him to Chicago when he was getting by on raw physical ability and didn't have a refined/technically smooth swing plane from the time he was drafted until his promotion to the Sox...sounds like there SHOULD have been some development/coaching there.)

 

There's no reason for Spring Training, they're professionals who know what they need to do to prepare.

 

 

Last year, Ventura was credited with working wonders and raising the morale of the organazation. Yay, no Guillens. More professionalism, more chemistry, etc.

 

Now, with essential the same exact team except for Flowers/Keppinger, we've gone from the best defense to the worst. How is that possible?

Edited May 13, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Here we go again.

 

The reverse/corollary is that there's not even a reason to have any coaching or try to develop players.

 

Guess teams like the Angels who are spending $5 million on Mike Scioscia are wasting their time, too...because there's nothing to do with players once they reach the majors. They are what they are.

 

(I seem to remember arguing for 2-3 years that Brian Anderson was mistreated/mismanaged by everyone from KW and Ozzie Guillen on down...that everyone was holding him back from realizing his full potential, that they shouldn't have promoted him to Chicago when he was getting by on raw physical ability and didn't have a refined/technically smooth swing plane from the time he was drafted until his promotion to the Sox.)

 

There's no reason for Spring Training, they're professionals who know what they need to do to prepare.

 

 

Last year, Ventura was credited with working wonders and raising the morale of the organazation. Yay, no Guillens. More professionalism, more chemistry, etc.

 

Now, with essential the same exact team except for Flowers/Keppinger, we've gone from the best defense to the worst. How is that possible?

 

Here we go again indeed. At least have some consistency in your irrational rants.

 

[caulfield12]

Here we go again indeed. At least have some consistency in your irrational rants.

 

 

So, your position is that Laumann should be fired?

 

Or no?

 

And that Buddy Bell's doing a swell job?

 

Name at least three (I'm not going to ask for five) things that Buddy Bell has done well since coming to the White Sox.

Edited May 13, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

So, your position is that Laumann should be fired?

 

Or no?

 

And that Buddy Bell's doing a swell job?

 

Name at least three (I'm not going to ask for five) things that Buddy Bell has done well since coming to the White Sox.

 

If the argument is that Kenny Williams has been giving him awful players to work with, what exactly is he supposed to be doing? Miracle working? That's just silly. If Kenny is that bad, we have no idea how good of a job Buddy Bell is really doing.

[caulfield12]

If the argument is that Kenny Williams has been giving him awful players to work with, what exactly is he supposed to be doing? Miracle working? That's just silly. If Kenny is that bad, we have no idea how good of a job Buddy Bell is really doing.

 

 

Then if Hahn was trained under and is KW's protege, what reason is there to believe he's the right man for the job?

 

Just his education/background/resume and negotiating contracts/working with agents?

 

The Gillaspie for Soptic deal? Because going with Flowers (with no veteran back-up) and "buying high" on Keppinger don't exactly build much confidence.

 

Right now, how can we tell any difference between Buddy Bell, Chris Rongey and Scott Merkin, in terms of being a cheerleader for the team and giving our prospects glowing "puff piece" endorsements on blogger calls?

 

We definitely know Teahen and Keppinger (until now) haven't worked out so well. Those were 2 specific recommendations that he has made in terms of player evaluation HIMSELF PERSONALLY.

Edited May 13, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Then if Hahn was trained under and is KW's protege, what reason is there to believe he's the right man for the job?

 

Just his education/background/resume and negotiating contracts/working with agents?

 

The Gillaspie for Soptic deal? Because going with Flowers (with no veteran back-up) and "buying high" on Keppinger don't exactly build much confidence.

 

Right now, how can we tell any difference between Buddy Bell, Chris Rongey and Scott Merkin, in terms of being a cheerleader for the team and giving our prospects glowing "puff piece" endorsements on blogger calls?

 

We definitely know Teahen and Keppinger (until now) haven't worked out so well. Those were 2 specific recommendations that he has made in terms of player evaluation HIMSELF PERSONALLY.

 

Irrelevant, but OK.

[caulfield12]

Irrelevant, but OK.

 

 

So your best reason for keeping Buddy Bell is that we can't prove he's the reason for our bad minor league system conclusively?

 

The entire blame lies with the scouting staff?

 

Then why are we SO SUCCESSFUL picking up players from other teams (Jenks, Loaiza, Santos, Contreras, DeAza, Quintana, Humber, etc.) BUT NOT DRAFTING/SIGNING/DEVELOPING our own players?

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/2/21/4013...ourtney-hawkins

 

If you read this article, you would think we had a ton of interesting prospects. So either they're really not good players, they're ALL not developing simultaneously this year, they're going through extremely bad luck....SOMETHING is amiss.

 

But all of those guys...Hawkins, DeMichele, Thompson, Walker, Mitchell (especially glowing reports from Bell), Sanchez, etc., were struggling out of the gate for various reasons. It's pretty difficult to project Hawkins, for example, to AA by the end of this season without a remarkable turnaround. Mitchell's been demoted. DeMichele has struggled as much as the rest, and Sanchez is still struggling to put a 600 OPS.

 

About the only bright spots were pitching Johnson, Bassitt, Jaye, Beck, etc., relievers like Taylor Thompson and Phegley/Semien/Black (sort of a prospect, but not really).

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

So your best reason for keeping Buddy Bell is that we can't prove he's the reason for our bad minor league system conclusively?

 

The entire blame lies with the scouting staff?

 

Then why are we SO SUCCESSFUL picking up players from other teams (Jenks, Loaiza, Santos, Contreras, DeAza, Quintana, Humber, etc.) BUT NOT DRAFTING/SIGNING/DEVELOPING our own players?

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/2/21/4013...ourtney-hawkins

 

If you read this article, you would think we had a ton of interesting prospects. So either they're really not good players, they're ALL not developing simultaneously this year, they're going through extremely bad luck....SOMETHING is amiss.

 

But all of those guys...Hawkins, DeMichele, Thompson, Walker, Mitchell (especially glowing reports from Bell), Sanchez, etc., were struggling out of the gate for various reasons. It's pretty difficult to project Hawkins, for example, to AA by the end of this season without a remarkable turnaround. Mitchell's been demoted. DeMichele has struggled as much as the rest, and Sanchez is still struggling to put a 600 OPS.

 

About the only bright spots were pitching Johnson, Bassitt, Jaye, Beck, etc., relievers like Taylor Thompson and Phegley/Semien/Black (sort of a prospect, but not really).

 

You just made an argument against your own argument. Developing other players means we can develop players

[caulfield12]

You just made an argument against your own argument. Developing other players means we can develop players

 

 

Ummm....not really.

 

Because it wasn't our minor league system that did a single thing.

 

Maybe Jenks, but he obviously had the raw stuff and talent, it would have been hard to mess that one up...he was the perfect "change of scenery" candidate.

 

Almost all of those guys, you can directly point to Don Cooper's involvement. I didn't list Matt Thornton, but he would be another prime example.

 

 

If you want to say development doesn't happen at the minor league level and 90% of it can be attributed to Don Cooper, okay, I'll go along with that.

 

Are we going to credit Buddy Bell for Daniel Hudson, Clayton Richard and Gio Gonzalez?

 

Remember, Quintana wasn't "ruined" by our minor league system because he was only in it for about a month. Santiago turned his career around in winter ball, at least that's my understanding from everything that has been written.

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Ummm....not really.

 

Because it wasn't our minor league system that did a single thing.

 

Maybe Jenks, but he obviously had the raw stuff and talent, it would have been hard to mess that one up...he was the perfect "change of scenery" candidate.

 

Almost all of those guys, you can directly point to Don Cooper's involvement. I didn't list Matt Thornton, but he would be another prime example.

 

 

If you want to say development doesn't happen at the minor league level and 90% of it can be attributed to Don Cooper, okay, I'll go along with that.

 

Are we going to credit Buddy Bell for Daniel Hudson, Clayton Richard and Gio Gonzalez?

 

Remember, Quintana wasn't "ruined" by our minor league system because he was only in it for about a month. Santiago turned his career around in winter ball, at least that's my understanding from everything that has been written.

 

You are just going in circles at this point.

 

[caulfield12]

You are just going in circles at this point.

 

 

And you never answered the question I posed.

 

Name at least three things Buddy Bell has done well...and why, in your opinion, he deserves to still have a job in baseball.

 

 

You are the one trying to twist my saying that they don't have a good record of minor league development to extrapolate it that they can develop other team's players at the major league level.

 

What the heck does that have to do with Buddy Bell or the current state of affaris with the minor league system?

Edited May 13, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

And you never answered the question I posed.

 

Name at least three things Buddy Bell has done well...and why, in your opinion, he deserves to still have a job in baseball.

 

 

You are the one trying to twist my saying that they don't have a good record of minor league development to extrapolate it that they can develop other team's players at the major league level.

 

What the heck does that have to do with Buddy Bell or the current state of affaris with the minor league system?

 

This is your freak out. Have at it.