And you can't rebuild the offense through free agency.

How did Detroit do it? How did Boston do it during their heyday?

How did Detroit do it? How did Boston do it during their heyday?

 

Detroit did it by striking gold on their trades for Cabrera and Austin Jackson/Scherzer and Sanchez/Fister.

Edited May 14, 201312 yr by fathom

You can patch some holes, but judging by the farm system, there are no significant instant contributors on the offensive side coming for a few years (if at all). Sox are going to have to find some cost-controlled offensive starters, which is why they absolutely have to allow Flowers the whole year to try and prove he can play at this level.

 

They are working on it, slowly but surely. They are bringing in blocked guys from other organizations. The Floyd injury hurts them in terms of pitching depth that could have been dealt, but if guys like Johnson keep coming on, there will still be surplus guys that can be dealt if we have replacements in the wings.

 

They also pretty much have to play Flowers, at least through the end of June when the trade market starts to open up, and especially if the team can't find their way this year. If they do flop, it becomes even more important to play guys like Flowers, Danks, etc.

Detroit did it by striking gold on their trades for Cabrera and Austin Jackson/Scherzer and Sanchez/Fister.

Iva Rodriquez, Maggs, Fielder, Martinez...they aren't a playoff team without shelling out big money for hitters. They wouldn't have been able to get Cabrera without taking Willis.

No thanks, too old.

You thought Josh Hamilton would have been a good signing if the Sox were trying to win. He is older than Morales and 2 months younger than Granderson.

Iva Rodriquez, Maggs, Fielder, Martinez...they aren't a playoff team without shelling out big money for hitters. They wouldn't have been able to get Cabrera without taking Willis.

 

But they aren't able to get Cabrera without drafting Miller and Maybin. The Tigers took advantage of going way above slot in the draft, so thankfully the new draft regulations has stopped that.

Iva Rodriquez, Maggs, Fielder, Martinez...they aren't a playoff team without shelling out big money for hitters. They wouldn't have been able to get Cabrera without taking Willis.

 

What hitter in the upcoming 2014 free-agent do you build around? Morales or Granderson? At 31 and 33 respectively next year, I don't want them.

What hitter in the upcoming 2014 free-agent do you build around? Morales or Granderson? At 31 and 33 respectively next year, I don't want them.

All you want is guys that can't play. Keppinger at SS. Danks in Cf. You want a bad team so you can spend the entire summer complaining. You should be happy right now.

Alexei for Matt Adams is my favorite thing I've heard all day. Count me in.

Where would he play?

Where would he play?

 

You pick a guy for him to replace this season, then he can be our 1B starting next year

What hitter in the upcoming 2014 free-agent do you build around? Morales or Granderson? At 31 and 33 respectively next year, I don't want them.

 

 

If they kept Peavy and could "strike" gold like we did before 2005 (mixing in 2-3 veteran hitters on 1-2 year contracts or largely "incentive-based" deals on guys coming off major injuries like Dye), kind of like what the Mariners did this off-season)...or going into 2008 (Ramirez, Quentin), then there's no reason to say it's impossible.

 

But you can say that for this year if Dunn and especially Konerko continue to flounder away.

 

OTOH, there's a danger holding on to Peavy too long or, heaven forbid, him experiencing another injury related to the first surgery (I know ptac will say it's unlikely).

 

The next problem for 2014 is going to be the bullpen with Crain, Thornton and Lindstrom all probably gone and not knowing exactly what we have with Nate Jones. That's cheaper to fix, and harder to predict, but we can't go all Linebrink/Dotel with contracts and still have enough money left over to fix the offense.

Edited May 14, 201312 yr by caulfield12

I'm all about finding a way to get some of the Cardinals players into the organization. I was hoping the Sox were going to try and get Matt Carpenter this offseason to play 3b for them.

 

Forget the Cardinals players, I want their whole organization transferred to the South Side.

You pick a guy for him to replace this season, then he can be our 1B starting next year

 

 

You're going to sit/bench Konerko or Dunn for him?

 

That's where this gets tricky, like bringing Rios on board when Jermaine Dye was one of the veteran leaders.

 

If it's 3B, okay. Can he play third well enough? (If that was actually the case, there would be no reason to move him over to 1st because his value would be 5X higher over there).

 

We need Viciedo to play everyday, and RF is Rios' until he's traded.

You're going to sit/bench Konerko or Dunn for him?

 

That's where this gets tricky, like bringing Rios on board when Jermaine Dye was one of the veteran leaders.

 

If it's 3B, okay. Can he play third well enough? (If that was actually the case, there would be no reason to move him over to 1st because his value would be 5X higher over there).

 

We need Viciedo to play everyday, and RF is Rios' until he's traded.

 

If you make a trade like that, you absolutely bench someone like Dunn.

If you make a trade like that, you absolutely bench someone like Dunn.

 

I agree. It's not like he will ever have any trade value, even if he goes off for 30 homers from today on.

If you make a trade like that, you absolutely bench someone like Dunn.

 

Right, just bench whichever guy is playing worse at that point. Try to spread the ABs around a bit, playing matchups, but Adams becomes your best bat at that position.

And you can't rebuild the offense through free agency.

I get that Chase Utley is old, but he's been fantastic so far this year. Would he not be a significant upgrade over Ramirez/Beckham next year?

 

Brian McCann is 29 years old and has been one of the best offensive catchers in baseball outside of last year. Would he not be a huge upgrade over Flowers?

 

Kendry Morales is also 29 years old and is a very solid 1B. Would he not be a big upgrade over Konerko/Dunn?

 

All these guys can help improve our offense. Add two of them, trade a starting pitcher for a young bat, and the offense will be much improved.

If they're really planning to bench Dunn permanently (maybe hoping to cause him to retire, which won't happen)...then they would be better off dumping the rest of his salary for a player with a bigger contract who has a higher probability of contributing.

 

As it seems the MAIN issue in this discussion over and over again is the White Sox don't want to pay out a lump sum of $27 million dollars at one time.

 

This is where someone will argue they're worth almost $1 billion dollars as a franchise and SHOULD be able to come up with that money if they really wanted to take that step, from a financial perspective (figuring it's better to get a sunk cost off the team than to carry him on the roster and alienate more and more fans, hurting the bottom line for another 2 years).

I get that Chase Utley is old, but he's been fantastic so far this year. Would he not be a significant upgrade over Ramirez/Beckham next year?

 

Brian McCann is 29 years old and has been one of the best offensive catchers in baseball outside of last year. Would he not be a huge upgrade over Flowers?

 

Kendry Morales is also 29 years old and is a very solid 1B. Would he not be a big upgrade over Konerko/Dunn?

 

All these guys can help improve our offense. Add two of them, trade a starting pitcher for a young bat, and the offense will be much improved.

Are they/can they stay healthy?

I get that Chase Utley is old, but he's been fantastic so far this year. Would he not be a significant upgrade over Ramirez/Beckham next year?

 

Brian McCann is 29 years old and has been one of the best offensive catchers in baseball outside of last year. Would he not be a huge upgrade over Flowers?

 

Kendry Morales is also 29 years old and is a very solid 1B. Would he not be a big upgrade over Konerko/Dunn?

 

All these guys can help improve our offense. Add two of them, trade a starting pitcher for a young bat, and the offense will be much improved.

 

 

The money you'd need to spend for those guys would be a bigger gamble than a rebuild.

The money you'd need to spend for those guys would be a bigger gamble than a rebuild.

 

 

Then they're stuck, because if you look at the Sabathia, Cliff Lee, M. Cabrera etc., deals, more than 60-70% of the time in those big trades "top prospects" turn out to be even less so.

 

Or Freddy Garcia for Olivo/Morse/J. Reed. None of those guys did anything for the M's and all ended up more successful elsewhere...later down the line, particularly Michael Morse.

 

 

If they DO develop, it usually takes 2-3 years.

 

And Jake Peavy, while very good now, isn't an ace anymore. He's a #2/3 guy for most elite teams.

 

He's not going to get you Alcides Escobar or Juan Segura, like Greinke did.

 

The money you'd need to spend for those guys would be a bigger gamble than a rebuild.

Yeah. If they were signed, there's a chance they could fail and the team could win fewer than 70 games. Whereas if they sell off everyone they'd be guaranteed to lose more than 70 games.

 

And of course...we need to guarantee more than 92 losses otherwise people couldn't demand a rebuild.

Josh Johnson is totally the type of player that KW would have been interested in. I can't recall if we ever heard of the Sox interested in him.

Josh Johnson is totally the type of player that KW would have been interested in. I can't recall if we ever heard of the Sox interested in him.

He went straight from incredible to the DL, there really wasn't much availability of him until last offseason, and after we signed Peavy we weren't looking to add a starter.

Yeah. If they were signed, there's a chance they could fail and the team could win fewer than 70 games. Whereas if they sell off everyone they'd be guaranteed to lose more than 70 games.

 

And of course...we need to guarantee more than 92 losses otherwise people couldn't demand a rebuild.

 

What are you getting at?