And then those politicians enact restrictions making it tougher to vote or moving people who vote against them out of their district so that they can write those laws while staying in office.

 

And and despite all that, when the time comes, we re-elect them.

Pretty good This American Life episode about cops and race and crime this week. Part one of a two part series. Interesting stuff.

Part 2 was also pretty good. Talked about real life PD's in Florida and Vegas, one that is doing well, the other not so much.

 

I'm very confused by this. Looks like an overreaction, even though the homeless guy was throwing haymakers at the start of the video. They get him down on the ground, someone decks him, they tazer him, and then almost while a cop is on top of the homeless guy, another cop starts shooting.

Edited March 2, 201511 yr by Jenksismybitch

Part 2 was also pretty good. Talked about real life PD's in Florida and Vegas, one that is doing well, the other not so much.

Listened to both over the weekend, agreed that they were pretty good.

 

I'm very confused by this. Looks like an overreaction, even though the homeless guy was throwing haymakers are the start of the video. They get him down on the ground, someone decks him, they tazer him, and then almost while a cop is on top of the homeless guy, another cop starts shooting.

That is MURDER. You can't in a civilized nation shoot and kill a guy in cold blood. There were several cops beating on the guy and tazing him. Some cop is going to jail for a long time.

That is MURDER. You can't in a civilized nation shoot and kill a guy in cold blood. There were several cops beating on the guy and tazing him. Some cop is going to jail for a long time.

 

According to Gawker, there are reports that the homeless guy was going for the cops gun, hence the shots. And at least one of the cops was wearing a camera. So this will be sorted out pretty quickly.

 

http://gawker.com/graphic-video-lapd-offic...n-br-1688818269

 

According to Gawker, there are reports that the homeless guy was going for the cops gun, hence the shots. And at least one of the cops was wearing a camera. So this will be sorted out pretty quickly.

 

http://gawker.com/graphic-video-lapd-offic...n-br-1688818269

 

Without watching the video and going simply by your original description, that's exactly what I figured the case would be. And leave it to the buffoon above you to jump to the conclusion he did.

No matter what the facts, its basically never a good idea to escalate a confrontation with police.

 

 

No matter what the facts, its basically never a good idea to escalate a confrontation with police.

So our choices are to expect homeless people on Skid Row to behave 100% rationally or to have them occasionally shot?

 

That's a choice that cries out "make there be a 3rd option somehow".

So our choices are to expect homeless people on Skid Row to behave 100% rationally or to have them occasionally shot?

 

That's a choice that cries out "make there be a 3rd option somehow".

 

Don't do drugs?

Don't do drugs?

And if they don't and still wind up there because of things like untreated mental health issues?

There's a pretty substantial correlation with mental illness and homelessness. One of those two TAL episodes you recommended above even had a scenario with the police interacting with a homeless person with known mental health problems and escalating the situation to the point where deadly force was used (I think the guy had schizophrenia, was having an episode and an officer went up and grabbed him, at which point the guy freaked out).

 

Don't know what happened here, but that idea of deescalation might apply.

 

 

And if they don't and still wind up there because of things like untreated mental health issues?

 

I'm not sure what you want the cops to do. This guy is clearly out of control. At some point you have to control him. Talking to him didn't seem to work (and wouldn't since he's mentally gone). They tackled him and tried to cuff him but he kept fighting. They tazed him and he kept fighting. I'm not disagreeing that the shots seemed to be pretty quick based on the video alone, but if the body camera shows the guy fighting for a cops gun, what would you have them do?

 

You're always quick to condemn in these situation and assume there's a better alternative, but you never say what the alternative would be. So what are you proposing would have been that 3rd option here?

There's a pretty substantial correlation with mental illness and homelessness. One of those two TAL episodes you recommended above even had a scenario with the police interacting with a homeless person with known mental health problems and escalating the situation to the point where deadly force was used (I think the guy had schizophrenia, was having an episode and an officer went up and grabbed him, at which point the guy freaked out).

 

Don't know what happened here, but that idea of deescalation might apply.

 

I guess i'm assuming they talked to him before trying to take him down. That's standard protocol. This guy went in swinging against 4 cops though. He's on a public street. His friend is also, in essence, attacking the cops. This doesn't really seem like the Cleveland case where the officers needlessly put themselves in a position to have to shoot someone.

 

edit: Sorry, Cleveland not Philly.

Edited March 2, 201511 yr by Jenksismybitch

I'm not sure what you want the cops to do. This guy is clearly out of control. At some point you have to control him. Talking to him didn't seem to work (and wouldn't since he's mentally gone). They tackled him and tried to cuff him but he kept fighting. They tazed him and he kept fighting. I'm not disagreeing that the shots seemed to be pretty quick based on the video alone, but if the body camera shows the guy fighting for a cops gun, what would you have them do?

 

You're always quick to condemn in these situation and assume there's a better alternative, but you never say what the alternative would be. So what are you proposing would have been that 3rd option here?

The answer has to be never to let it get to that kind of situation, which would presumably involve much better mental health care in this country rather than letting them be out on the streets.

The answer has to be never to let it get to that kind of situation, which would presumably involve much better mental health care in this country rather than letting them be out on the streets.

 

That's not an answer. That's an unrealistic Utopian fantasy that does not deal with the situation.

 

Hopefully more evidence is clearly displayed when they release the body cameras from the cops. Obviously, it is awful for all involved that this situation unraveled the way it did, but early evidence suggests that the man did indeed go for a cops gun. And if that was the case, then it's on him.

 

I'm going to leave this here again in case it was missed before. A police office in a town next to where I grew up was killed with his own weapon less than one year ago. So when someone goes for an officer's gun, I have no problem with that kind of quick reaction.

 

http://www.localsyr.com/story/d/story/offi...63EqZs8BkWb6lSw

Yeah, even in a fully nationalized, fully funded healthcare system, there's still going to be people with chronic mental illness who will have episodes, decide to go off of their medication, whatever. And more to the point, even if every police officer in America was a raging leftist fully in support of that sort of system, they still need to deal with the real world as it exists today. It's important for both public and officer safety to minimize these sorts of confrontations or taking actions that will likely needlessly escalate a situation. Again, don't know what happened here, but speaking generally, if the situation could have been handled differently such that their would never have even been an attempt to grab the officer's gun, everyone is safer.

My god that video is brutal to watch.

Yeah, even in a fully nationalized, fully funded healthcare system, there's still going to be people with chronic mental illness who will have episodes, decide to go off of their medication, whatever. And more to the point, even if every police officer in America was a raging leftist fully in support of that sort of system, they still need to deal with the real world as it exists today. It's important for both public and officer safety to minimize these sorts of confrontations or taking actions that will likely needlessly escalate a situation. Again, don't know what happened here, but speaking generally, if the situation could have been handled differently such that their would never have even been an attempt to grab the officer's gun, everyone is safer.

Also worth remembering that in countries that aren't ungodly overflowing with guns, the ordinary police on duty often don't carry guns themselves. No gun to grab at.

Well, again, that still doesn't give any guidance to police on how to handle these situations on the ground in America in 2015.

We should just have robots police.

We should just have robots police.

Was it Judge Dredd where their guns could only be fired by someone with the DNA linked to the gun or something like that?