Fantl916

Is this time for dreaming? maybe this fantastical portrait i paint can find its way onto the canvases of white sox dreamers everywhere... How about a nice little 3 way deal: White Sox send Konerko, Masset, Egbert, and Crede to the Giants, Richar and Danks to Baltimore Giants send Angel Villanova, Jonathan Sanchez, Henry Sosa, and Nick Noonan to Baltimore Baltimore sends Bedard and Roberts to the White Sox why this works? ah ill explain... San Francisco, under Sabean with McGowan as owner, has to have a product that will put fans in the seats. Rowand, while a decent FA splash, wont make them a contender. this trade might in the nl west. They net a legit all star 1b in konerko to put in the middle of their order, along with a solid 3b to replace pedro feliz who is leaving. Villanova, their top prospect, is years away, so this trade really only hurts the current team in terms of what jonathan sanchez would have contributed in the bullpen or backend of rotation. Masset might benefit from the spacious confined of pac bell park, and Egbert would be a good bet as a future starter behind Cain, Lincicum, and Lowry. this trade also allows san fran to get a reasonably priced star in konerko without giving up their best young players (cain, lincicum). For Baltimore this is a no brainer. Bedard wont commit long term, and after trading Tejada they need to retool for the future and build around Markakis. Richar and Danks would immediately be solid young replacements for the departed Bedard and Roberts, and they also net plenty of young talent in those they receive from San Fran. Villavona could eventually turn into a star with his massive potential. Fred Lewis is a solid leadoff replacement in CF. Sanchez could immediately slide into thier rotation or be their setup guy in the bullpen and contribute immediately, and Nick Noonan could challenge for the SS job sooner than later. 6 for 2 is what detroit got from florida in the Mcab/Willis trade, and while this package doesnt possess the elite prospects, it is a much deeper group in terms of talent and projectability. For the White Sox, this bittersweet. We trade our top prospects for Swicher, then turn right around and trade Paulie. But alas, i beg you to reason with me. Look at the net effect: Better rotation with a bonified ace, a leadoff hitting experienced 2b, a solution to having Swisher/Dye/Quenten as your corner OF's by getting to slide Swisher to 1st, and the ability to play Jerry Owens in center and bat him 9th where everyone will love his speed. Yes we dealt more prospects and young talent, but we kept the best of it as the centerpieces to this team which can be built around (mind you this is post swicher trade, im no longer counting gio or dls). Giants gain Konerko, Crede, Masset, and Egbert... lose Villanova, Sanchez, Lewis, and Noonan. I believe they would be happy to net this Baltimore loses Bedard and Roberts and nets Danks, Richar, Villanova, Lewis, Sanchez, and Noonan... a potential star in Villanova, and 2 good young arms in Danks and Sanchez along with solid young position players... I think they'd be ok with this. White Sox lose Konerko, Crede, Danks, Masset, Richar, and Egbert and net Bedard and Roberts. Improves our pitching and offense, as Crede is excess with Fields at 3b and this ads more speed to our lineup will it happen? 100% not, but its fun to dream aint it?

haha if people thought a package for bedard might be ridiculous, imagine what a package for kazmir will look like. at the least... Gio, DLS, Sweeney, and Shelby.... AT LEAST THAT, but probably more

Im very happy about this... alexei can be good insurance for both Owens in CF and Richar at 2b... between these 3 guys we should be able to find two solid future contributors to the W. Sox. Very very nice KW

iamshack's aboslutely correct... there is one difference and one difference alone in terms of stuff between miller, kershaw and gio... hype... miller throws 92-94, and can touch 98... has a good slider...mediocre changup... doesnt always have control kershaw throws 92-94 but can sit higher on a good day... great curve... decent change... pretty consisntely good control.. gio throws 92-95 pretty effortlessly... great curve... decent change... doesnt always have good control miller is tall, kershaw is young... those are the reasons why they get more hype than the "skinny injury concern" that is gio... gio can absolutely be a great #2 in MLB...

Just so Im clear... where is this Bowdan/Crisp for Shelby/2 prospects coming from? i cant find it anywhere, and im beginning to think this is weak sauce...

haha this is going to sounds aweful... but for Bedard and Roberts it would probably take (i hope you're sitting down) a package similar to the one detroit gave florida... DLS, Danks, Crede, Sweeney, Richar, John Shelby, and McCulough... i think we can get away from dealing Fields in a deal like this cuz Bedard is a FA after this season and Roberts now comes with steroids baggage... Gio and Danks are interchangable, but i think Danks fits better here for Balt. because of the flux of pitching prospects they got from Houston and they might want someone more major league ready. crede makes sense as mora is garbage, and used to be a superutility guy anyway so he can be moved around. if not... Fields, Danks, Sweeney, Richar, Egbert, McCulough might get it done is it worth it for us? im not so sure, maybe if we were able to negotiate an extension with bedard before a trade. obviously this is all in good fun, i dont expect something like this to happen, but i thought a response to iamshack's question was needed...

I hope that is sarcasm... i hope that with all my heart...

I think everyone needs to look at acquiring Willits from the perspective of what we have, what we need, and what we can get. If indeed the idea here is to trade Konerko to the Angles do we really want to use a portion of Konerko's value to maybe slightly improve in CF and at leadoff? How much better than Jerry Owens is Reggie Willits really going to be? the angles wont want crede unless they lose figgins, so adding him isnt an option at this point. moreover, you are realistically looking at the Sox getting 3 good players in return for him, all things equal. Do you really want Willits to be one of those players without ever really seeing what Owens can do? Think of who we could get in his stead, if this deal was made it's assumed that Kasey Kotchman is a given, but players like Scot Shields, Ervin Santana, Jeff Mathis/Hank Conger, Sean Rodriguez, Jordan Walden, etc. could be had in place of Willits. Trading for Willits, essentially then, is to replace of portion of Konerko's value that could go to fill a future hole elsewhere or where theres a void (i.e. a young catcher to everntually replace AJP) when we already someone similar. Granted, Willits probably is an upgrade yes, but i think the greater majority here agree that he also isnt going to get much better than his performance last year, when was solid, yet unspectacular. For me personally, why further clog our OF with less than star talent when you could use Konerko's value elsewhere? I think the perfect trade is Konerko and a AAAA RP for Kotchman, E. Santana, and Conger/Mathis. Improves the pitching, gets us younger, and helps both sides improve going forward. If we can add more of the parts we dont need (Crede, Masset/Sisco/Aardsma, Haegar, BA, etc.) in order to get another useable piece, then you do that. Basically i dont think Willits should be a centerpiece of a deal for PK when PK's value could be better used to improve the future of this team.

you could get far more than that for PK... They want to dump Pierre, and i bet most anyone could have him for a B to B- prospect. If that was a direction KW goes then the trade should look more like Konerko and a single A prospect for Loney, Pierre, Meloan, and Greg Miller. That would be a deal that would help both sides and presents what most believe Konerko is worth...

A firesale would not work, but trading ONE of those guys might not be a bad idea. I think the obvious candidate is Konerko, and what you do is package him with Crede and throw in guys like Masset, BA, Aardsma, Haegar, etc. and go after some young ML ready talent maybe a good trade looks like this... Konerko, Crede, Masset, Haegar to the Angles for Kotchman, Ervin Santana, Sean Rodriguez and Mathis Konerko, Haegar, and Sisqo to the Yankees for Ian Kennedy, Austin Jackson Konerko, Crede, Aardsma, McColough to the Dodgers for Loney, Broxton, and Greg Miller stuff like that, not saying any of these trades would happen, would allow the White Sox to stay competetive while having a balance of youth and experience. We are in the unfortunate position of having all our best players being our oldest players, and eventually they will decline, and we cannot wait for that to happen to do something about it. That said, we also cannot mortgage away winning as this fan base would not settle for it. the solution is to gradually integrate youth into the team having a core built around Fields, Danks, Gio, Quenten, and whomever we could pull for say a Konerko would give a great young core to go along with our veteran core of Buerhle, Thome, Dye, Aj, Vasquez, Orlando, etc. just my thoughts

This is the same mentality that had us resigning Pods last year and signing Erstad... give the kids a shot... no thanks on stopgaps anymore unless they're long term solutions...

Just a question for those who care to give an opinion... But now that the Tigers seem absolutely loaded does anyone agree with me that maybe the White Sox should change directions a bit. Kenny and management have said that they want to win now, but it seems that after that trade that "on paper" they are well behind the Tigers, and I think theyre still behind the Indians... Is it time we shift directions a bit and go to the Angles with Konerko and get some quality young talent? then do the same with Crede, Thomse (if he'll wiave his no trade clause), and maybe the likes of Aj or Dye if we can get quality in return? Maybe Im just bummed after watching the Tigers pull off that blockbuster... their lineup is better than the Yankees or Red Sox by a ton IMO... Granderson, Polanco, Cabrera, Magz, Sheff, Guillen, Renteria, Pudge, and J. Jones... i mean wow... thats monstrous... If we cannot realistically put ourselves in position to make the playoffs i think we need to start going after young talent or some big guns...

why not give up some good to decent prospects... you have to look at it this way... If a trade is indeed DLS, Gio, and Carter that it really wouldnt be THAT bad... Haren is a bonified ace, and with all do respect those 3 have proven nothing at the major league level. personally, im not at all convinced Carter will be anything good in the majors, and he is still a ways away... Gio, for all his talent, has concerns over his long term health and potential... and DLS, while sexy is not Danny Haren... I would do this in a heart beat.

I think everyone is overblowing cabrera's value, and ignoring the question of realistic possibilities. First... Cabrera is a free agent after 2009 and will be in line for a MONSTER deal. that will be a factor in what teams will be willing to give up. Meaning that only big market teams will really be able to mentally justify forking over the goods to get him (i.e. Red Sox, Yanks, Angles, Cubs, W. Sox, Mets, Dodgers, etc.). Also, i cannot see the Marlins trading him to someone in their division, or even somewhere in the NL... so you really can axe the Mets, Dodgers, and Cubs off that list for competitive reasons. Also, while his career has started very very well, you cannot annoint him one of the best 10 players to ever live. in terms of pure numbers he is a 100 run, 35 home run, 115 rbi, .330 avg guy and has been on average each of the last 3 years. that is not enough to even make him one of the top 5 hitters in baseball in any of the last 3 years. his primary value stems from his age, but age related value is only as good as the control one team has. just because he is young doesnt mean whoever has him controls him for a long time. he hits free agency after 2009, and if you think you can keep him from going to free agency to maximize his value i say to you good luck. he may only be a two year rental unless youre confident you can meet his asking price for an extension... which will be well into the high $100 millions... all that taken into account... you have to figure that with KW's philosphy on extensions (take Buerhle's drawn out "you have to take hometown discount bla bla bla" situation for example) you have to think that KW may not want to fork over that much money for one player. Moreover... with that in consideration a "realistic" offer might be Danks/Gio, Garland (let Florida trade him for prospects), B. Anderson, Carter/John Shelby, Egbert/Broadway and one of our mediocre cheap RP's a la Sisco/Macdougal/Thornton. If you think about it here Florida gets 2 solid middle rotation guys in Garland (who they could trade if they so choose) and Gio or Danks who both have the potential to be #2's. They also get middle relief help and 3 grade B prospects who could all contribute sooner than later. getting 6 guys who could all contribute for 1 all star isnt necesarily a bad thing at all, and i believe that this would be enough considering Florida knows they cant come up with the cash to resign him as bad as our farm is, DLS Gio and Fields are still very good prospects. I excluded Fields for the very reason that i believe Fields is our most valuable entity, and KW might try to hold onto him b/c of that. If Fields was in this trade you could probably take out Garland and 2 of the grade B prospects. Something like Fields, Danks/Gio, Thornton/Mac/Sisco, and B. Anderson would be fair. You all forget Fields was on pace for 40+ home runs had he gotten 500 abs. There is no way more than two of Fields,Danks,Gio,DLS, Garland find there way into this deal. That wouldnt make a lick of sense to the current AND long term prospects of this franchise... just my thoughts

If you give me Adam Jones in a package for Garland I would do a cartwheel. However, I agree that the guy KW will most likely pursue would be Morrow, which isn't likely either. That said, Bill Bavasi isnt the best GM out there, and loves to trade for solid vets. Maybe we can package Garland with other parts they can use and get some young talent including a couple out of the Clement, Baletein, Jones, Morrow group.

Also, I very much doubt that you could convince the Dodgers to take Contreras for Furcal unless we took on almost all of Contreras's contract and paid almost all of Furcal's... Nobody wants Contreras, no matter how desperate they might be for pitching. And moreover, nobody will give up anything of value, no matter how much a burden to their team he might be (Furcal to the Dodgers) as a form of compensation. Contreras is far more of a burden to carry...

i have a couple things to say on this trade that i think some people are missing... first, it's tough to imagaine trading konerko because he has been one of the hearts of this team over this century, but this trade addresses what i see as the W. Sox greatest problem: we lack any top level young talent. We are a very old team, as a whole, and are in danger of becoming the next SF Giants because we cannot develop star young talent (I know we have Danks and Fields, but the rest of the star players on this team are 30+). Kotchman, to me, fits the mold of a very good young player. He reminds me a little of Adrian Gonzales with the bat, and he's very good with the glove. He too could become a fixture at 1b much like Konerko was, and there might not be as much of a gap between the two going forward as some might indicate. second, Garland, while unbelievably solid, is also replacable. including him in this deal if we can get Figgins and Santana/Sheilds would make a ton of sense. Yes, i know Garland just wins, and personally he's one of my favorites, but he's in line for a contract that we may not be willing to match, and it does make sense to trade him now while we can leverage his full value. Santana before this year was very very good, and if he can return to that measure it would make this trade a wash by him alone. Shields, if its not Santana, can step in and immediately be the lockdown setup guy we need, and he's great. I love Scot Shields, and to me a 8th and 9th with Shields and Jenks would be game over. Figgins is the leadoff guy we wanted Pods to be ever since we traded for Pods. He has a higher OBP, steals bases, and moreover is incredibly versatile. Having the option of putting Figgins at CF, 3b, 2b, or ss makes him twice as valuable. i love him in that aspect as well. third, with the excess money we fill other holes more effectively, much like we did in 2005 when we won the WS when we traded C. Lee and had excess money. the prospects of that make this trade appealing. Do i think the angles need to add an A-level prospect like Adenhart or Wood? no, and i think that's wishful thinking. But they have a plethora of C & SS prospects that we might be able to pry away a la Conger, Mathis, Sean Rodriguez, etc. at the same time they might require us to throw in something they can use, in which case i would not hesitate... At this point, this is how i see the W. Sox and their most fundamental problem: If you were to take every player in MLB and put them in a pool where each team got to draft them and build a franchise around them (think they would draft according to talent and age) the W. Sox currently have nobody who would be taken in the top 75, and i argue that they may not have anyone who would be taken in the top 100 (fields and buehrle would come close). That has to be remedied for the Sox to become a sustainable entity, and this trade does help them in that aspect. and im spent

Thank you, somebody finally said it... How can the guy who leads the AL in wins over the last two years be a league average pitcher. Just because he doesn't tear it on your fantasy team doesnt mean hes average... hes very solid, reliable, and consistent... and sometimes for a pitcher those are ingrediants that equal keeping your team in games and always giving them a chance to win

I like the way Floyd has been pitching lately. truthfully, it seems as though he just needs time to adjust to his surroundings and then he takes off. i hope when/if he gets promoted to the CWS that management give him ample time to get settled and comfortable. the most important thing for him is his confidence, as he has dominant stuff (which was why he was once more highly regarded than Cole Hamels)... i say we give him the opportunity sooner than later and let him get a large number of starts under his belt in order to get acclimated and hopefully gain some serious comfidence

he has a full no-trade clause... and the only reason he agreed to come here was because he is from here. i know some guys want to win championships, but KW would have to do an amazing sales job on Thome to get him to consider it. its nice in theory, but i doubt its happening

youre right, my bad... guess that proves my point all the better?

Ummm Seattle would be an amazing trading partner. Bill Bavasi = not so intelligent sometimes... Vidro for Rafael Soriano? yuck... Ummm for Buerhle, MacDougal/Sisco/Aardsma, and someone like BA for Jones, Morrow, and Clement would make me quite happy... even tho im not a huge fan of clement, b/c he really hasnt produced up to his abilities, he still is a higly touted backstop. morrow would be the centerpiece to me, as he has big time ability. jones would be a quality get too, but really we need to keep him in the infield (2b/ss) to keep his value way up. as an outfielder i believe his potential is mediocre relative to most quality major league outfielders just my thoughts

Rasmus is nice, but he's also just another "5-tool" solid contact, decent 25-30 home run power, good feilder, solid baserunning guy. and we already have 2 of those in BA and Sweeney, and neither of those guys has really panned out yet. yea Rasmus might be as good if not more highly touted than both of our guys, but he is roughly of the same mold. personally i'd want a possible superstar for Buerhle, not another possibly solid player. if youre gonna trade your best player shoot for the moon, dont settle for anything less than high potential

i thought that was gone... i just threw my mouse...

@#$%^&*()_ Gimme a F$#^ing break Jose... throw #$%^& strikes