Good News

[lvjeremylv]

As "sackless" as you think Magglio is, he was a big part of the brawl you mentioned. He gave a flying karate kick to one of the Tigers and was suspended a few games. Lee also was far from "sackless."

 

Didn't remember Magglio doing that in the brawl. Other than that, though, when did you ever see the guy get fired up about anything? He always seemed far too calm to me. It's just the guy's personality, and there's nothing wrong with being even-kiltered, believe me. But, in professional sports, you need to have a couple of guys who are a little wacky and short-tempered.

 

And what did Carlos ever do to make you think he had a pair? Other than get pissed when he didn't get to RBI 100 last season?

[Dick Allen]

Didn't remember Magglio doing that in the brawl.  Other than that, though, when did you ever see the guy get fired up about anything?  He always seemed far too calm to me.  It's just the guy's personality, and there's nothing wrong with being even-kiltered, believe me.  But, in professional sports, you need to have a couple of guys who are a little wacky and short-tempered. 

 

And what did Carlos ever do to make you think he had a pair?  Other than get pissed when he didn't get to RBI 100 last season?

I've seen Magglio really fired up, so much so he threw his batting gloves and hat into the stands, and I came up with his hat.

I saw Carlos come up with some big hits, and make some good plays in the field when needed. Its funny, many of the same people who defended Valentin, and carried his range factor in their pockets rip Lee who had one of the best range factors for LFs in baseball. The fact is, Lee isn't a very good LF, (just like Valentin isn't a very good SS) and may be out of position a lot, and may not get very good jumps, but did make plays when they had to be made. I agree with you about having a few goofs on the team. I want the Sox to sign AJ really bad, his personality while probably really grating, may be just what this team needs.

[jackie hayes]

The last guy that we've had on the Sox who had any balls was Jim Parque.  That brawl with the Tigers in 2000 was a thing of beauty, and is the thing I remember most about that season even though we won the most games in the AL (all of baseball maybe, not sure about that) and had several players have great seasons.

 

This team has been severely lacking in the "I've got balls" department, and hopefully the dumping of Magglio and Lee, who are both absolutely sackless, will help fix that.  We need AJ to show some of our sheepish players what it takes to win games.  Sometimes it takes an asshole attitude to put you over the top, and AJ possesses that quality -- and yes, if directed correctly, it is most definitely a quality.

 

Hold on -- it wasn't AJ's opponents that called him a jerk last season, it was his own teammates. And the pitchers, too, who he should get along with as a catcher. I keep reading things that sound like he just manages to tick off the opposing team in the spirit of a 'gamer'. This is not Torii Hunter we're talking about -- AJ is badmouthed not for a rough play, but for playing cards, for chrissakes.

[lvjeremylv]

Hold on -- it wasn't AJ's opponents that called him a jerk last season, it was his own teammates.  And the pitchers, too, who he should get along with as a catcher.  I keep reading things that sound like he just manages to tick off the opposing team in the spirit of a 'gamer'.  This is not Torii Hunter we're talking about -- AJ is badmouthed not for a rough play, but for playing cards, for chrissakes.

 

I never said AJ was going to sharpen his spikes and carve up the opposing SS's shins breaking up a DP. But we need a guy that's going to bring some fire out there, and if ticking off the opposing team is what AJ brings to the table, that's certainly something the Sox could use.

 

My Torii (nice name for a guy, by the way) reference was simply to show that the Sox did nothing in response after seeing one of their guys get obliterated. Do you think the Red Sox would have watched Jason Varitek (or anyone else) get plowed over and do nothing about it? I'll guaran-friggin-tee you they wouldn't have.

 

I'd say out of the players on the Sox team right now, the ones that have some sack are Rowand, Buehrle, Garcia (iffy one), and who? I'm trying to think here. Crede's a sheep, so is Garland (he's the King of Wool - I came up with that, so credit me if you use it), so is Frank (gets fired up, but usually at umpires and himself), so is Konerko (fierce competitor, but tends to get down on himself more than anything), and so is almost everyone else. I don't know much about Dye, Podsednik, Vizcaino, or Hermanson, but hopefully at least one of them will have some spunk to them.

 

We need AJ more than I thought.

[beck72]

Hold on -- it wasn't AJ's opponents that called him a jerk last season, it was his own teammates.  And the pitchers, too, who he should get along with as a catcher.  I keep reading things that sound like he just manages to tick off the opposing team in the spirit of a 'gamer'.  This is not Torii Hunter we're talking about -- AJ is badmouthed not for a rough play, but for playing cards, for chrissakes.

 

If you look back on all that was written, no teammate called him a jerk. I saw a list of all the articles on www.aj-pierzynski.com [some bias, sure] and from the sounds of it, an Oak. sportswriter w/ a beef [AJ hitting the game winning playoff HR vs OAk, they thought AJ was over the top and most of the A's players hated him], started the whole thing. Aj apologized to Tomko about finishing his hand of cards, and the issue seemed to fade. Which was the basis of the story. Imagine that, though, an A's writer who could get back at an old annoying nemesis in print.

 

One thing that isn't mentioned was AJ being part of the BALCO / Bonds thing. AJ and Bonds were playing in an allstar deal in Japan [?] when Bonds' trainer was around. I believe the grand jury took AJ's deposition but didn't testify. Could that play a part in SF getting rid of him, along with his grating personality?

[ChWRoCk2]

We need AJ more than I thought.  

 

not really, i think davis might turn some heads this season, but thats me and im probably the only one who thinks this

[lvjeremylv]

One thing that isn't mentioned was AJ being part of the BALCO / Bonds thing. AJ and Bonds were playing in an allstar deal in Japan [?] when Bonds' trainer was around. I believe the grand jury took AJ's deposition but didn't testify. Could that play a part in SF getting rid of him, along with his grating personality?

 

Teams/Owners couldn't care less about their players taking steroids. If they did, MLB would have a real steroid policy instead of the slap-in-the-face-of-a-joke one they have now.

[beck72]

Here's a list of the relevant articles from the site:

 

http://www.aj-pierzynski.com/main.html

 

For some reason the "articles" page isn't showing. But click the articles link and people can get some good info on what happened, and on AJ in general

[beck72]

Teams/Owners couldn't care less about their players taking steroids.  If they did, MLB would have a real steroid policy instead of the slap-in-the-face-of-a-joke one they have now.

 

I'm talking about Sf mgmt keeping Barry Bonds happy. If AJ did give any info on Bonds during the BALCO investigation, would he want AJ on the team? Wouldn't he try and exert some influence?

[jackie hayes]

If you look back on all that was written, no teammate called him a jerk. I saw a list of all the articles on www.aj-pierzynski.com [some bias, sure] and from the sounds of it, an Oak. sportswriter w/ a beef [AJ hitting the game winning playoff HR vs OAk, they thought AJ was over the top and most of the A's players hated him], started the whole thing. Aj apologized to Tomko about finishing his hand of cards, and the issue seemed to fade. Which was the basis of the story. Imagine that, though, an A's writer who could get back at an old annoying nemesis in print.

 

I know, which is why I didn't put "jerk" in quotes. He was called a "cancer", however. Also, "I've never in all my years seen a catcher who didn't watch video before games. He doesn't watch hitters—other than the Twins games when they are on TV." Which clearly implies that he's unprofessional, even though it doesn't use the word "unprofessional". I think "jerk" is a fair summary of their feelings about AJ, maybe even charitable. ("Cancer" is much worse, imo.)

 

And this isn't just one pitcher (Tomko) -- the article states different pitchers made many of the statements. It's not just a personal beef.

 

As for the sportswriter, I don't really care how he feels. These aren't his quotes.

[beck72]

It seems AJ did testify. the Nov. 21 article

 

Nov. 21, 2003

Pierzynski talks in BALCO case

Ex-Giant Estalella also testifies

John Crumpacker, Chronicle Staff Writer

 

One week after being traded to the Giants, catcher A.J. Pierzynski on Thursday appeared before a federal grand jury investigating a Burlingame nutritional supplement laboratory at the center of a widening sports doping scandal.

 

The 26-year-old Pierzynski was one of six athletes, three of them baseball players, to give testimony at the federal building. The other baseball players were a pair of former Giants, catcher Bobby Estalella and outfielder Armando Rios.

 

The other three athletes were from track and field, including identical twins and Olympic gold medalists Alvin and Calvin Harrison of Salinas.

 

Giants general manager Brian Sabean, asked Thursday about Pierzynski and whether he knew before the trade was finalized that the catcher was subpoenaed, said, "I have absolutely no reaction. It's being referred to in legal channels, through Jack Bair and in-house counsel.''

 

Bair, the Giants' legal counsel, did not return calls seeking comment Thursday.

 

The timing of Pierzynski's appearance before the grand jury in San Francisco had nothing to do with his trade from the Minnesota Twins. His name had surfaced weeks before in discussions with sources familiar with elements of the probe into Victor Conte's Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative (BALCO) and Greg Anderson, the personal weight trainer for Barry Bonds.

 

It's unclear how Pierzynski made the connection with BALCO because he had no apparent Bay Area ties. He was, however, part of a barnstorming tour of Japan by Major League players after the 2002 season that included Bonds and Yankees star Jason Giambi.

 

On the tour, Bonds brought along Anderson, who Giambi has said introduced him to BALCO. Bonds and Giambi have been called to appear before the grand jury. Bonds is expected to give testimony Dec. 4.

[lvjeremylv]

I'm talking about Sf mgmt keeping Barry Bonds happy. If AJ did give any info on Bonds during the BALCO investigation, would he want AJ on the team? Wouldn't he try and exert some influence?

 

I thought Barry didn't know he was taking steroids? :rolly

 

And I suppose that could be why. I know he had a pretty darned good season for them, so I can't imagine why they'd want him out of there. So I guess it's possible Barry wanted him out.

[lvjeremylv]

I know, which is why I didn't put "jerk" in quotes.  He was called a "cancer", however.  Also, "I've never in all my years seen a catcher who didn't watch video before games. He doesn't watch hitters—other than the Twins games when they are on TV."  Which clearly implies that he's unprofessional, even though it doesn't use the word "unprofessional".  I think "jerk" is a fair summary of their feelings about AJ, maybe even charitable.  ("Cancer" is much worse, imo.)

 

And this isn't just one pitcher (Tomko) -- the article states different pitchers made many of the statements.  It's not just a personal beef.

 

As for the sportswriter, I don't really care how he feels.  These aren't his quotes.

 

Eh, not watching video. Big deal IMO. Everyone's got a different method of preparing for a game. If AJ prefers to play cards to get mentally ready to play, that's his option. It's obviously working for him, as he's been a pretty good major league player.

[beck72]

I know, which is why I didn't put "jerk" in quotes.  He was called a "cancer", however.  Also, "I've never in all my years seen a catcher who didn't watch video before games. He doesn't watch hitters—other than the Twins games when they are on TV."  Which clearly implies that he's unprofessional, even though it doesn't use the word "unprofessional".  I think "jerk" is a fair summary of their feelings about AJ, maybe even charitable.  ("Cancer" is much worse, imo.)

 

And this isn't just one pitcher (Tomko) -- the article states different pitchers made many of the statements.  It's not just a personal beef.

 

As for the sportswriter, I don't really care how he feels.  These aren't his quotes.

 

I'm just saying a sportswriter can make a player look bad. The writer wasn't a SF beat writer but an OAK writer. It was well known OAK players hated AJ. A writer with an axe to grind can make any person look bad. I'm not saying AJ's an angel. But some things could be overblown in the media, taken out of context, etc.

 

In one of the articles, AJ talked about being known as a "cancer", trying to live that label down. That was the only spot I saw that mentioned.

 

We fans throw around labels. But we should be more careful. I was just pointing out that "implied" words and labels are not the same thing as "actual" words and quotes of teammates. Seeing how the players qouted were anonymous, they could have said "cancer" and "jerk". But no one did.

[jackie hayes]

I'm just saying a sportswriter can make a player look bad. The writer wasn't a SF beat writer but an OAK writer. It was well known OAK players hated AJ. A writer with an axe to grind can make any person look bad. I'm not saying AJ's an angel. But some things could be overblown in the media, taken out of context, etc.

 

In one of the articles, AJ talked about being known as a "cancer", trying to live that label down. That was the only spot I saw that mentioned.

 

We fans throw around labels. But we should be more careful. I was just pointing out that "implied" words and labels are not the same thing as "actual" words and quotes of teammates. Seeing how the players qouted were anonymous, they could have said "cancer" and "jerk". But no one did.

 

No, that's not true, someone DID say that AJ was a "cancer". The full quote: "He's the cancer in here. The pitchers aren't happy with him. If they can trade him, that would be fine with me. We all know Yorvie (Yorvit Torrealba) can catch this staff." There's no way this is a question of context, or something being "overblown". He just wasn't liked, and it seemed widespread. Here's one article on the love for AJ.

 

Btw, if we should be more careful about labels, hows 'bout we start w/ "winner"?

[jackie hayes]

Eh, not watching video.  Big deal IMO.  Everyone's got a different method of preparing for a game.  If AJ prefers to play cards to get mentally ready to play, that's his option.  It's obviously working for him, as he's been a pretty good major league player.

 

Except that Tomko wanted to go over hitters when he wanted to play cards. Sounds like a pretty fair request from a pitcher. It's not his option (at least, it shouldn't be) to not work with pitchers.

 

For the record, I'm on the fence on AJ. He's a very good player. But the next time KW talks about getting good character guys, after offering AJ a contract (and talking about 2nd and 3rd chances meanwhile), noone will call BULLs*** before me. If your priority is good clubhouse guys, you just avoid AJ, that's all there is to it.

[USAF_11F4H]

Teams/Owners couldn't care less about their players taking steroids.  If they did, MLB would have a real steroid policy instead of the slap-in-the-face-of-a-joke one they have now.

 

 

According to his website, AJ had quite an amazing 2003 season, what with his 111 HRs and 74 RBIs. That's one for the record books......

[beck72]

No, that's not true, someone DID say that AJ was a "cancer".  The full quote:  "He's the cancer in here.  The pitchers aren't happy with him. If they can trade him, that would be fine with me. We all know Yorvie (Yorvit Torrealba) can catch this staff."  There's no way this is a question of context, or something being "overblown".  He just wasn't liked, and it seemed widespread.  Here's one article on the love for AJ.

 

Btw, if we should be more careful about labels, hows 'bout we start w/ "winner"? 

 

My bad. The article did say "cancer". But "widespread" dislike for him? Two players were mentioned [anonymous at that]. And the articles after this one from an OAK. paper seemed to down play the whole thing. Now the media would never a mountain out of a molehill now would they?!

 

BTW, I think KW or Ozzie used that "winner" term when praising one of their new players. I know Hawk did. I'm sure it made your skin crawl

[TLAK]

I forgot that AJ beat San Fran in arbitration. Lots of bad blood is always created at those hearings.

[jackie hayes]

My bad. The article did say "cancer". But "widespread" dislike for him? Two players were mentioned [anonymous at that]. And the articles after this one from an OAK. paper seemed to down play the whole thing. Now the media would never a mountain out of a molehill now would they?!

 

BTW, I think KW or Ozzie used that "winner" term when praising one of their new players. I know Hawk did. I'm sure it made your skin crawl

It's not really clear how many players are talking. One article on aj-pierzynski.com suggests the quotes come from 4 players -- "Among the charges were one player calling Pierzynski a "cancer," another saying the catcher doesn't watch video on hitters before games, and two others saying San Diego's Phil Nevin told them Pierzynski criticized Giants pitchers while he was at the plate." I don't know if that's reliable, who knows.

 

But it doesn't sound like it's coming from one person, and I only heard one strong defense of AJ (by Mohr). Even Rogers' article, a defense of AJ, doesn't make him sound great (he's "full of himself" and "a whiner" to the umps). If AJ is a little lamb in the clubhouse, merely a jerk to the other team, why don't his teammates jump to his defense after all these unwarranted attacks?

 

I don't know if it'd be a problem here, and I'm not saying it would be -- I'm just saying that the accusations didn't come out of his opponents. That's not where his bad reputation comes from. (After all, the Giants only got rid of him after they got to know him.)

 

I don't know if I heard the quote you're talking about, but I probably wouldn't have noticed. I'm used to it fr/ Ozzie & KW, I often don't know what they're talking about.