Cotts or Walker as LH Setup man?

[beck72]

I'm going with Kevin Walker as the LH setup man making the team. Even though both Walker and Cotts have had strong springs, this move would be about making the sox a better and deeper team in the near future, more than anything. And Walker has showed that he can help this team now.

 

In no way am I down on Neal Cotts--I think he'll improve a lot with stronger guys in the bullpen around him. Yet the sox would be better served with Neal getting stretched out in the starting rotation in AAA, along with B-Mac, Jon Adkins, and possibly Bobby Jenks.

 

The Sox will already have a strong bullpen in Charlotte without Neal. Yet the rotation wouldn't be that strong besides B-Mac. With the added depth of starting pitchers, the sox would be better prepared in case a few SP's went down. Everyone knows what Cotts and Adkins can do in the bullpen. Yet they are unproven in the rotation.

[southsider2k5]

I am going to guess Neal goes north. Cotts has a few things going for him. The biggest one is that Ozzie loves the kid. And Ozzie has seemed to get his way with the last couple roster spots usually. Also Walker gets $500,000 if he goes north, Neal gets nothing extra.

[beck72]

I am going to guess Neal goes north.  Cotts has a few things going for him.  The biggest one is that Ozzie loves the kid.  And Ozzie has seemed to get his way with the last couple roster spots usually.  Also Walker gets $500,000 if he goes north, Neal gets nothing extra.

One thing about the Ozzie love--having Neal as the next SP option after B-Mac would only enhance that affection. If think if Walker shows he can pitch in tough situations like Cotts has, and go more than an inning at a time, Kevin would go north. Having multiple options for SP's in the minors ready in case of injury is a necessity. The sox didn't have that last yr. Ozzie won't let it happen this yr. My reasoning is I don't think Adkins is cut out to be a SP, even though he'll likely go to AAA and be a SP. Jon has had a few yrs as a SP that haven't gone too well

 

BTW-Isn't Walker being paid a decent salary, even if he goes to AAA [like $500k]? I thought the salary might bump up to $750 K total if he made the sox.

[southsider2k5]

One thing about the Ozzie love--having Neal as the next SP option after B-Mac would only enhance that affection. If think if Walker shows he can pitch in tough situations like Cotts has, and go more than an inning at a time, Kevin would go north. Having multiple options for SP's in the minors ready in case of injury is a necessity. The sox didn't have that last yr. Ozzie won't let it happen this yr. My reasoning is I don't think Adkins is cut out to be a SP, even though he'll likely go to AAA and be a SP. Jon has had a few yrs as a SP that haven't gone too well

 

BTW-Isn't Walker being paid a decent salary, even if he goes to AAA [like $500k]? I thought the salary might bump up to $750 K total if he made the sox.

 

Contract details

 

This is a split contract — Walker will only get the $525K if he makes the 25-man roster. Only $100K of the deal is guaranteed.

 

Appearance incentives: $25K for 65/70

 

Oz has made overtures about wanted to use Neal as a starter later on. He seems intent to me on bringing him north as a starter through the comments he has made. It might be different if Neal were getting hammered, but he is holding his own so far.

[beck72]

Contract details

Oz has made overtures about wanted to use Neal as a starter later on.  He seems intent to me on bringing him north as a starter through the comments he has made.  It might be different if Neal were getting hammered, but he is holding his own so far.

 

Thanks for the contract info.

 

I think it would be hard for Ozzie to send both neal and jon back to AAA, even they both were going to be in the rotation. I can't see the Sox keeping Jon and sending neal and Walker back though, as the sox need another LHP in the 'pen.

 

More than likely, Adkins will be in the AAA rotation, and Neal on the 25 man, w/ Walker in AAA. But walker and Neal are different pitchers. Walker is a junk ball guy who can throw strikes, and won't beat himself. Neal is sometimes is own worst enemy, by walking guys.

[KipWellsFan]

Have you even seen Cotts new full beard!?! Its Cotts

[southsider2k5]

Thanks for the contract info.

 

I think it would be hard for Ozzie to send both neal and jon back to AAA, even they both were going to be in the rotation. I can't see the Sox keeping Jon and sending neal and Walker back though, as the sox need another LHP in the 'pen.

 

More than likely, Adkins will be in the AAA rotation, and Neal on the 25 man, w/ Walker in AAA. But walker and Neal are different pitchers. Walker is a junk ball guy who can throw strikes, and won't beat himself. Neal is sometimes is own worst enemy, by walking guys.

 

No doubt about that. Control has always been Neals sticking point. He has got to work on getting a first pitch strike more than just about any pitcher on this team.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I'm not sold yet the 6th pen guy will be a LH.

vs RH: Politte, Herm, Shingo

vs LH: Marte, Vizc, Shingo

 

It's pretty balance in that respect. I would say Cotts & Walker have the edge because Marte is showing signs of getting more RH's out this year. If he can regain his 2003 form he's going to own the setup role all by himself.

[beck72]

I'm not sold yet the 6th pen guy will be a LH.

vs RH: Politte, Herm, Shingo

vs LH: Marte, Vizc, Shingo

 

It's pretty balance in that respect.  I would say Cotts & Walker have the edge because Marte is showing signs of getting more RH's out this year.  If he can regain his 2003 form he's going to own the setup role all by himself.

 

Except Ozzie publicly said a few days ago he'd like to have 3 LHP's in the 'pen with so many LH hitters in the AL Central. That he'd only go with 1 doesn't make sense, even if Luis has thrown better vs LH hitters.

 

But if either Adkins or Cotts has to go back to AAA, they should be in the rotation

[SoxAce]

Cotts. Walker hasn't impressed me much cause most of the hitters I've seen him face won't even make it to the bigs for another 2+ years.

[YASNY]

Cotts. Walker hasn't impressed me much cause most of the hitters I've seen him face won't even make it to the bigs for another 2+ years.

 

Which reminds me ... We are practically giving Ozuna the UIF job based on a significant portion of his AB's against pitchers trying to make a ML team, or just plain old ml pitchers.

[Chisoxfn]

Are you guys nuts...Cottsy.

[qwerty]

Neither cotts or walker should be the left handed setup man. Are we forgetting marte?

[beck72]

Neither cotts or walker should be the left handed setup man. Are we forgetting marte?

The 2nd LH set up man

[beck72]

From the sox website:

 

"A closer look: After retiring 17 of the first 18 hitters he has faced working late in the games this spring, the White Sox are thinking about stepping up the challenge for Walker against the Angels. Cooper said Saturday that he might start the reliever against the Angels' everyday players, and then work McCarthy for six innings in relief."

 

Sounds like Ozzie is going to give Walker a real chance to make the club. Better to see what he's got now.

[JUGGERNAUT]

I just want to remind everyone Walker last did any real work for the SD padres 4 yrs ago (66IP). Since then he's pitched < than 10 in every yr after.

[AddisonStSox]

I know a lot of us like Neal. He seems to be a pretty good young arm that is one pitch away from cracking the rotation, or at least obtaining a moer important role out of the pen.

 

I come from the camp that thinks, if you acquire a player, you should use him. If Ozzie, Kenny and co. think it would better serve both Neal and the team to send Neal down to AAA to learn that new pitch, I'm all for it.

 

Worst case scenario, Walker flops and you simply call Neal up again.

[KevHead0881]

I really think that Walker would be the wiser choice. I like Cotts, but I think he'd be better served starting every 5 days in AAA. It's one thing if Cotts played a significant role in our bullpen, but it's not like we used him a whole lot last year. And IMHO, I don't think he's got the makeup for the bullpen. It'll be best for both parties if he gets back into starting mode.

 

I don't like to put too much stock into spring performances, but Walker appears to throw strikes with all of his pitches. I really don't know much about him, but from what I've seen, I don't see how he could be a downgrade from Cotts.

[YASNY]

I really think that Walker would be the wiser choice.  I like Cotts, but I think he'd be better served starting every 5 days in AAA.  It's one thing if Cotts played a significant role in our bullpen, but it's not like we used him a whole lot last year.  And IMHO, I don't think he's got the makeup for the bullpen.  It'll be best for both parties if he gets back into starting mode.

 

I don't like to put too much stock into spring performances, but Walker appears to throw strikes with all of his pitches.  I really don't know much about him, but from what I've seen, I don't see how he could be a downgrade from Cotts.

 

 

You aren't giving Cotts enough credit for what he did last year. He was very good at preventing inherited runners from scoring, and those he left on base were allowed to score by Mike Jackson. Cotts did a credible job in the pen last year. To he doesn't have the make up for the pen is inaccurate, as he proved that he can be an effective relief pitcher.

[KevHead0881]

You aren't giving Cotts enough credit for what he did last year.  He was very good at preventing inherited runners from scoring, and those he left on base were allowed to score by Mike Jackson.  Cotts did a credible job in the pen last year.  To he doesn't have the make up for the pen is inaccurate, as he proved that he can be an effective relief pitcher.

 

His ERA was 5.65. He gave up 41 earned runs (13 hrs) in 65 innings of work. His iffy control also made me nervous at times.

 

Like I said, I do like the guy, and I agree that he did some good things last year (preventing inherited runners, etc). But those numbers aren't impressive and while I agree that they were somewhat hurt by the performance of others, I have a tough time blaming most of it on Mike Jackson.

 

It is my confidence in him that suggests he should work on his skills in AAA and hopefully he will eventually find himself in our rotation in the near future. I just don't see a lot of progress coming out of limited pen duty.

[YASNY]

His ERA was 5.65.  He gave up 41 earned runs (13 hrs) in 65 innings of work.  His iffy control also made me nervous at times.

 

Like I said, I do like the guy, and I agree that he did some good things last year (preventing inherited runners, etc).  But those numbers aren't impressive and while I agree that they were somewhat hurt by the performance of others, I have a tough time blaming most of it on Mike Jackson.

 

It is my confidence in him that suggests he should work on his skills in AAA and hopefully he will eventually find himself in our rotation in the near future.  I just don't see a lot of progress coming out of limited pen duty.

 

 

Mike Jackson attlowing Cotts' runeers to score had a direct impact on his ERA. If Jackson would have been as effective in that situation as Cotts was, Cotts ERA would be substantially lower.

[beck72]

I know a lot of us like Neal.  He seems to be a pretty good young arm that is one pitch away from cracking the rotation, or at least obtaining a moer important role out of the pen.

 

I come from the camp that thinks, if you acquire a player, you should use him.  If Ozzie, Kenny and co. think it would better serve both Neal and the team to send Neal down to AAA to learn that new pitch, I'm all for it.

 

Worst case scenario, Walker flops and you simply call Neal up again.

 

Well put. I think Ozzie could, in good conscience, tell Neal it's not a demotion if he's sent back to AAA to be a starter. The Sox know what he can do in the bullpen. Yet the big unknown is how canhe handle the rotation after some success in the bigs. Neal knows what it takes to be a big league pitcher. Now its a matter of it being in the bullpen or in the rotation.

 

The worst case/ best case scenarios should play a part in the decision making process. Worst case, Neal comes back w/ some experience in the rotation, working on all his pitches. Best case, Walker does great, and Neal is unhittable as a SP. The sox would then have two great SP options in B-Mac and Neal as insurance for the big league rotation.

 

Walker will be given opportunities to prove himself this spring--he might start today. If he is lights out vs all sorts of competition, which he has up until now, he'll have earned it. If he makes the team and not Neal, it's a low risk, high reward move. The sox have a very capable LHP in Cotts to come back up if Walker bombs. Yet the high reward of having a great 2nd SP option behind B-Mac in Neal is almost too good to pass up.

[beck72]

Mike Jackson attlowing Cotts' runeers to score had a direct impact on his ERA.  If Jackson would have been as effective in that situation as Cotts was, Cotts ERA would be substantially lower.

 

One thing Neal did have a problem with was his HR's allowed [like 13]. He had always been able to keep the ball in the park where ever he pitched prior to last yr. If Neal keep the ball down, he has a great future.

 

One thing Walker has to do is beat out Cotts. If they pitch the same, the incumbent should win.

[YASNY]

One thing Neal did have a problem with was his HR's allowed [like 13]. He had always been able to keep the ball in the park where ever he pitched prior to last yr. If Neal keep the ball down, he has a great future.

 

One thing Walker has to do is beat out Cotts. If they pitch the same, the incumbent should win.

 

 

I'm not endorsing one over the other. I want the best pitcher to be with the club. If all things are equal, I'd give the nod to Walker in order to allow Cotts to get that experience as a starter. Still, I don't think KevHead gave Cotts enough credit.

[beck72]

I'm not endorsing one over the other.  I want the best pitcher to be with the club.  If all things are equal, I'd give the nod to Walker in order to allow Cotts to get that experience as a starter.  Still, I don't think KevHead gave Cotts enough credit.

 

I agree. People see Neal's high ERA and often use it say he wasn't very good. His keeping inherited runners from scoring was over 70%. Where his ERA soared was when others gave up his inherited runners [though Neal like to get runners on base to start on inning--I kept hoping the Sox would only use him when there were runners on. Yet the Sox didn't have many options in the pen]. Neal's ERA should definitely be lower this year.