vilehoopster

Do you really believe this? Or are you just blowing off steam? I can't believe you think this is true. I think Abreu has earned the right with management to voice his frustration; I would like to think Hahn and crew are not this petty. Now, I could be wrong and the tank could start tomorrow and I wouldn't be totally shocked to see Abreu, Colomen and whoever gone. But if we worked in the same office and were talking in the break room, I would bet you big bucks and give you pretty good odds that Abreu will be with the White Sox the next couple years.

Time for me to defend Abreu, AGAIN. First about the frequently stated idea that Abreu is in an obvious decline is just wrong. But it's been said on here so often that many people just accept it as fact, when there is no fact to it at all, none. The guy who brought up the batting averages is just using that stat because it fits this continued false narrative that Abreu is in decline. Steve Stone has said over and over during the telecasts that Abreu has made the conscious decision to sacrifice his batting average to drive in more runs. And you know what? It's working. The most RBIs he has ever had are 107 in a season, he has 68 already and 63 at the all-star break (If I remember correctly). He's basically on pace to get a 120 RBIs. Clearly his best RBI season in his career. Is that the evidence of a guy clearly in decline? No way. I wanted to throw in doubles as another example of his increased power, but too much math comparing the doubles year by year, so I'm gonna use total bases as another example of him having his best year EVER. Before this year, his best year ever for total bases was 343 in 2017. He already has 187 total bases. Let's be conservative and say he only gets 160 more bases the rest of the year, he will still break his all-time record. Does that sort of thing happen to guys in decline? Of course not. And you guys how talk about his lack of range on defense, such an abstract, unprovable thing. Let's talk about how he's scooping up bad throws better than he ever has and throws very well for a 1st baseman, again, Steve Stone mentions that all the time, how good he is throwing to 2nd and 3rd. So he's not declining defensively either. Also, I am so tired of this "He's an average 1st baseman" stuff. He's not. Do average players represent the AL at the All-star game? He was an all-star 1st baseman this year; he was one last year, and he'll be one next year as a White Sox. Another thing that somewhat cracks me up is the irony of people on here suggesting that Abreu should just shut up or play or implying that he has no right to his opinion because he's part of the problem. Jose is saying exactly the same thing that 95% of the people on this board are saying: he's upset with a whole lot of the wtf personal moves by management. Isn't that exactly what we all have been saying pretty much this entire year?

I buy this assessment of my post 100% But it drives me to distraction that people on this board keep calling for trading such important players right as things are starting to look up and become exciting (let's not overreact after the Oakland series). And people on this board have repeatedly stated that they enjoy watching prospect improve more than watching the Sox win, that the improvement means more than the wins, so some of that hyperbole is justified.

In 2014 he had 36 home runs and 107 RBIs. Barely past halfway and he has 21 home runs and 66 RBIs. And he usually doesn't get really hot until August, so I think it is a very valid argument that he's having his best year every.

The Sox have about 20 more wins than they did at this time last year. How is that not productive? What is productive for you?

Okay, I'll bite. What fact isn't correct? Do we have two better guys in the bullpen than Coleme and Bummer? "Only two good guys"? Was Jose not an all-star for the 2nd year in a row? Is he not having his best year? Are not numerous posters on the board talking about how Sheet seems to have found his power stroke and he has a ton of RBIs? Of course I can't prove as a fact that flippers enjoy seeing the Sox lose, but when people come on here saying that it's time to tank the season and go for another high draft choice, and these same people keep wanting to get rid of many of the Sox's best players: Abreu, Colome, Bummer, McCann, how can I not think that their ultimate goal is for the Sox to lose. I think my opinion is at least as valid an the people who keep wanting to trade some of our best players for unknown minor league players.

So Yolmer is today's scapegoat for stinking it up in Oakland? Is it time to release him? Yes, I would rather see Madrigal at 2nd base now too. But, for whatever reason, he's not here, so clearly Yolmer is the best we got to put there. Hopefully Madrigal will be there next year, but I really think we gotta ride the season out with Sanchez. Rondon is batting .203, Yolmer is batting .250; that's a huge difference, huge. Yes, he started out the year very badly defensively, but if we're gonna cite small samples, he also threw out two guys at home and threw out a guy at 3rd in that one Boston game. There's an awful lot going on defensively for him to have pulled that off. I used to coach basketball, and I had this backup senior post player, and he drove me crazy: he'd get burned on out-of-bounds plays, could only score on offensive rebounds; no offensive threat, and he just took up space. Well, after one game I freaked out with my assistants that we gotta quit playing him; he give us nothing. I was yelling at them. They all agreed with his problems, but then they calmly pointed out that there is no one else better. All the guys on JV were too small and could never defend the post or get a rebound. We had to play him because that's all there was to put in as a back up. Until Madrigal comes up, Yolmer is all we have at 2nd base, and really, he is far from terrible.

No, no, NOOOOO! Let's keep the only two good guys we have in our bullpen. I really do believe that some of you flip guys enjoy it when the Sox lose: the excitment of the early draft choice, following some prospect down in HIgh A or lower, who will never make it to the majors but still living this fantasy, b****ing about the Sox when they lose. You flippers enjoy that more than the Sox winning. Hey, if you wanna trade someone, let's trade Vaughn. We have an all-star 1st baseman (two years in a row) and Gavin Sheets doing very well down in AA (Or is that too close for you flippers? Do you flippers only care about prospect in the DZL or AZL?). Let's sign Abreu to a three year deal, and when he really does start to decline (as opposed to right now when he's having his best year as a White Sox), Sheets will be ready to take over at 1st base. There's nowhere for Vaughn to play; he's blocked by an all-star for the next couple years. Vaughn is really hot right now and a complete unknown; that makes him more valuable. I assume that there's tons of executives who suffer from "Second-String Quarterback Syndrome" and are absolutely sure that the total unknown is going to be better than someone who has been doing a great job for years.

In defense of Rondon's decision to throw that. Now I know the results, but was it really a crazy play for him to try and get that out? I actually think the idea was correct, but obviously it, blew up in the execution. Let's say he does what everybody here says is the obvious choice, that Rondon runs that ball down and doesn't throw it; just holds it and we pitch to the next guy. Well, let's look at the situation now. Men are on 1st and 2nd and nobody out and with Fry (who has already given up two hits in two batters) pitching, what are the odds that Oakland wins in that situation, I would say something like 80%, at least, at least. I understand that he completely screwed up the throw, but if it had been a good throw, he would have gotten the guy at 2nd base clearly. Rondon was in a very tough situation and tried to make a great play, which, clearly, costs the Sox. But as far as I'm concerned, Rondon is low on the list of whom to blame for this loss. As soon as Eloy hit the home run, I texted my friend: "Okay, Lopez pitch the 7th, Bummer pitch the 8th, and Colome the 9th and the Sox fly home with a win". Later I told my friend, "Or Bummer gets 5 outs and Colome gets four outs. Either way the Sox win". But no, Renteria goes with Marshall who has been 50/50 lately and the Sox get burned. And when he brought out Herrara in the 8th, I thought like people on this board that the Sox must have decided to tank and Renteria is losing on purpose. Actually, If I'm pointing a fingers for this loss, I'm pointing at Renteria, Marshall, and (really pointing at Fry) then Rondon.

Is Steve Stone speculating on his own, or can we assume that he's talking to from office people and he's repeating what they're telling him without giving up his source. Actually, either way sound good.

Coach, let's talk about your record.

This that expression even used anymore? Am I showing my age using that term? Is anybody on here old enough to remember "Basketball Jones" from Cheech and Chong? That goes back even longer that Steve Dahl and Disco Demolition. Anyway, onto the topic. I am really missing the Sox playing. Can Moncada stay hot? What is Cease gonna do in his next start? I wanna see McCann catch and Abreu bat. See everybody. How soon until Tim returns. Four days is a long time in the summer without the White Sox; I can't be the only guy looking forward to it starting up again. Plus, I'm old, as you can tell my my references above, and the game tomorrow night is past my bedtime; maybe I can catch the first couple innings. So it will be five days for me until I can watch a game. But really, I won't be able to get a fix (see how I stay in that jonesing metaphor) until Saturday. But I'm really, really ready for it to start up again. It's exciting to be a White Sox fan right now. Bring up Luis and Nicky and things will get even greater.

I agree with this guy. I would like to see what Yermin can do in the Majors.

I agree with with your last comment. It's going to be a boring four days without White Sox baseball. Sorry, but watching the three in the all-star game is not the same.

Agree 100%. Two wins against the Cubs (I know he didn't get the official W in 1st game, but it was Nova) is worth, at least, 5 or 6 wins against everybody else. Absolutely worth it.

YES !!!! And for years past next year. All you guys who want to trade Colome, I absolutely do not get you. Do you enjoy losing?? You all make no sense to me.

Well, I liked him and wished that they had given him more of a chance. But I understand the Sox doing this. Realistically, how much more of a chance can you give him. Unlike you all, I would like to see him get thru this year at Charlotte, and come to spring training and try to win a spot. My memory of last year isn't as short as everybody else's on this board. Collins is like 1 for 20. How soon until everybody wants him gone forever. A very, very unforgiving fanbase on this board sometimes.

I know! It's crazy.

Nova gives us two great games against the Cubs. He wins my goodwill for, at least, the rest of the year.

Yeah, we don't want to be taking left-handed at bats away from Collins who is a .234 career batter in the minors and is "he's 1 for fucking" 19.

No, it's not. Anti-vaxxers quote all these obsurce stats to justify what they do, you know, stats like fwar or wRC+. You use stats that nobody knows anything about, stats that are so numerologic and obsurce that they hide any reality. Anti-vaxxers have to do this to justify their ridiculous beliefs, beliefs that go against the medical establishment, you know, real doctors and the AMA. People use all these silly stats to downplay Abreu's importance and value as a player. And they need to do this because their anti-Jose arguments go against the baseball establishment. You know, the guys who put him on the last two all-star teams, MLB.com naming Jose one of the 100 best players in baseball this spring when no other White Sox made the list. You know those guys, those guys who really know nothing about baseball in the majors, just sportswriters, coaches, and other players. Yes, we big Abreu fans, we're the anti-vaxxers in this metaphor, lol.

I know Palka has looked terrible, but give him a chance to get it together before sending him to the trash heap. The people on here give up on player so quickly and seem to have no memory at all. On another thread, I said this same thing about Lopez. Yes, the guy is really struggling, but give the guy some time to pull it together. Does nobody remember last year with Lopez? It was just last year?? Well, the same logic with Palka. He hit 27 home runs last year, just last year. Three pinch hit home runs. He was the only guy who seemed to be at all clutch last year when nobody else was ever being clutch. I know you can't wait forever for him to pull it together, but give him more than a week and what, 12 or so at bats? We are in such a hurry to dump one player and go on to the next guy on this board.

" Do you not realize that playing a key defensive position like 3B or SS as opposed to being a turnstile at 1B has a lot of value?" I do understand you point and agree with you. But does Machado have 3 times the value or even twice the value of Abreu? I don't start to see that at all. Plus there is that dick factor. Machado stomps 1st basemen's feet and rolls bats where catchers will step on them, where as Abreau is a great clubhouse guy, loved and admired by the younger players. That sort of thing has to have value, financial value. When we sit back and wonder how the Sox are doing what they're doing with their terrible starting rotation problems, all the injuries, and the youth, you have to realize that there's something there that makes the players believe and keeping fighting with all the comeback victories (the Boston game, who hit that home run; last night's game, who won it) who has the players believing they can win now. Of course, it's not all Abreu, but universally, the players say it starts with Abreu. That has value, value that should be repaid with loyalty and, yes, financial compensation. Sign the guy and for more than a year, and pay him what he deserves.

Two quick points: 1st - It's amazing how much better defensively Eloy has gotten in LF, and it's pretty much understood that his improvement is from putting in extra time with Boston. But here's the question, why wasn't his defense worked on last year in the minors? He had to have been bad last year like he was at the start of this year. Why wasn't that extra work put in last year? This really makes no sense to me. When people complain on here about poor player development, I usually just pass that off as sour grapes and complaining to complain. But really, why has Eloy improved so much in just a short time in the majors, and really, why did he come to the majors with so much room for improvement? 2nd thing: I agree that Lopez has been completely awful, but wow have some poster on here been overreacting. Put him in the bullpen? Send him down? I'm pretty sure that at the start of the year, after his great end of the year last year, that most people would have said that Lopez was our # 2 starter after Rodon. In fact, some people thought he might be our # 1 with Rodon's inconsistencies. Are our memories really that short? Lopez was great the last 1/3 of the season. I know it sucks, but give him some time (and a little faith) to get it together. The people on this board are so ready to just give up on this player or that player.

Machado is batting .272, has 20 home runs, 57 RBIs, and an OPS of 852 Abreu is batting .271, has 20 home runs, 63 RBIS, and an OPS of 822. Explain my "terrible logic" that says it stupid to want to pay Machado 30 million a year, but it's okay to nickel and dime Abreu and try to get him for around 10 million a year. Yeah, you're right my logic is terrible. And I say this again: Do you really think that Madrigal, Robert, and Vaughn are all going to be playing for the White Sox next year? All three, next year??