vilehoopster

I was watching Sports Talk last night, and Dave Kaplan pretty much dismissed Quintana as a quality pitcher. Kaplan talked about trading Quintana and this guy for that player or trade Quintana for that player; he gave like three trade ideas to help the Cubs and all three involved trading Quintana. Then he said something like about (not sure of quote but this is the idea) that Quintana's velocity is down, he did say "he is what he is" and that he was a "4th" pitcher if that. I just looked it up and Quintana is 0 and 4 with a 5.65 ERA in his last 7 starts. I think the Cubs want to get rid of him because . . . He's their embarrassment of the front office. Whether fair or not, the overwhelming majority of Sox fans blame Yonder and Jon Jay for not getting Machado. That feeling was very evident on this board, and still is, how people talk over and over about how stupid management was to get these guys to try to entice Machado. After he went to San Diego, most of us resented Jay and Alsonso being here and the online noise was and is loud. I think that's part of the reason why Yonder stunk it up so badly this year; he cracked under the pressure to justify that he was here. Maybe not, but the resentment was there and still is. I think the same thing has and is happening with Quintana. Cub fans resent and blame Quintana and they have put enormous pressure on him to justify that trade, and it has really gotten bad. I don't talk to too many Cubs fans, but Kaplan complains about that trade all the time. Mike Wilbon has complained about it on PTI twice that I have seen. After Cease won minors pitcher of the years awards, the complaining got worse, and gets worse with every home run Eloy sends into orbit. I think now the blame and pressure on Quintana greatly surpasses what Yonder and Jon Jay ever received. And I think Quintana is cracking. He is not liked by Cub fans and I have got to believe he wants out and the Cubs management wants him out. The Cubs have the option to resign him for one year for $10.5 million. I don't think either party wants to do that for the reasons I mentioned above. I think the Sox can get him for not very much when you consider the potential return. I say offer one of those outfielders in AA whom the Sox have been waiting to show something, offer one of those and someone significantly less, and I think the Sox can get him and his salary which I think the Cubs also want to get rid of. What do you think? I think if Quintana got back to the Sox, that would go a huge way in getting him back to what he was, if not, I would bet we can him a lot better than he is for the Cubs right now, and he would be a huge help to our pitching staff.

I think there's a real possibility that Palka could be more valuable to the club going forward. Palka hit 27 home runs in the majors last year, including a few really clutch ones. I thinks there might be something about Palka's make up mentally that could make him a very good player. Collins has 49 home runs in four years in the minors. He is a career .234 batter in the minors. There's a real possibility that Collins could turn out to the every bit as good of a batter as Cordell, Rondon, and Delmonico turned out to be (Sarcasm there). You guys all assume that Collins is a sure thing; that automatically he's gonna be a good to very good player. I think you're seeing more with your hearts than your heads. With that said, if I had to pick one. I would pick Collins because of the position he plays, but Collins is in no way clearly better than Palka, and I would say it's pretty close to 50/ 50 which one ends up helping the Sox more.

This is has be the ulitmate example of the White Sox giving a game away. I can half-ass accept that Jay lost that ball in the sun, but not really. But that decision of Rondon to go home was one of the stupidest decisions I can remember in a long time.

I agree. You got to get him out. It's his fault he didn't get the win tonight.

Steve said that Abreu was waiting on an inside pitch. Jason said here it comes inside and next thing, the ball was going over the wall.

Wow, did Steve call that one. Wow.

That was a total bullshit run. 1st what would have been a lazy fly ball in any other stadium is a double. Then the ump screws Giolito twice. Pisses me off.

Realistically, what can the Sox do with Yonder? Can we trade for a nobody if we agree to cover 3/4 of his remaining salary. Would that work. We have to do something to unload him. He killed us yesterday and again tonight.

Agree 1000 precent. Dump Yonder, who never should have been here, and bring back Palka.

And so the inning is over. Yonder kills another inning. I can't fucking stand him.

How much longer until the top brass sees that Yonder is killing us, and it's game after game after game. Get rid of him!!

He had 37 saves in 2016 and 46 in 2017. He was replaced as the closer in Seattle by Diaz last year and still had 12 saves last year. There's no reason to believe he can't keep doing what he's been doing this year for the Sox. Keep him and don't trade him for a 88 rated prospect who's in AA. You want to trade a guy who is 16 for 16 in saves for only an 88 prospect? I keep bringing this up but Blake Rutherford was rated higher than that when we traded for him, how's that looking. You don't win by trading your good players.

But Colome can help us have a great team for several more years and there's no gamble there. He's pretty much a sure thing, not some prospect who may or may not work out. Pay him when it's time and keep him into the future. How far into the future is your future? Does it go beyond three or four years from now?

I don't remember those guys from 2002, but I remember the names you mentioned for 2012. And I don't think any of those guys had ERAs of 9.75 (Santana) and 9.45 (Despaigne in a small sample with a guy getting thrown out at home and another one thrown out at 3rd). I somewhat remember Peavy and Humber being bad (about like Lopez and some of our other guys are now) but nothing like those two.

I agree that Collins should be playing today . . . . but don't you think McCann should have pitch-hit for Collins in the 9th inning last night? I saw one guy brought it up when it happened last night, but that was the only comment I saw?

This is a question for old-time White Sox fans since I am pretty new to being a White Sox fanatic. So, here's my question: In your memory, have the White Sox EVER started two such horrible pitchers in the same season as Ervin Santana and Despaigne? I have to believe the anwer is no. Now I know the Sox have started some pretty bad pitchers the last few years and especially lately, but these to were so clearly and obviously incompetent and not major-league ready. And with both pitchers this was obvious after a couple innings of their first starts. I am assuming that Despaingne will be receiving the the Santana response from the front office in a day or two. So back to the question, can you think of a season where the White Sox started two pitchers of this poor quality in the same season?

See, this is where we really, really disagree. 16 for 16 in saves is not just "OK" in the present. It's outstanding. You guys who keep describing Colome as a "2nd tier" closer or that he's only above average and only been lucky so far, your argument loses all credibility on that statement. As soon as you make a statement like that, your logic is obviously wrong and your point of trading Colome is lost. Only Hand and Colome among Mlb leaders don't have a blown save yet. That's clearly better than "OK". The odds that this "really good in the future" ever would be better and more helpful to the White Sox than Colome is in the present seems very low, very low indeed. Seriously, what are the odds that whomever we get for Colome will ever be one of the top two or three at their position (in this case closer) by the time of the all-star game ? I would say well below 20%. On the other hand, it's possible that whomever we get for Colome will never even make it to the majors. I would say the odds are above 20% So why trade a guy who is sooo helpful to the team now and into the future for a guy whom the odds are will never help the MLB club as much is Colome is doing now, and for whom there's a real possiblity that this traded for player might never make the majors. People on this board keep asking how are we almost at .500 with our starting pitching being so weak. Yes, the bats are better than last year, but the biggest improvement over last year is our bullpen and Colome is the # 1 factor of our improved bullpen. Why trade that away for a player who might make the majors and who is very, very doubtful to ever help the Sox as much as Colome has so far and will continue to do into the future.

Just looked at the radar. I don't see anyway this game gets played. There's a long line of rain coming up from the southwest towards Chicago.

And you know what?? I am a giant homer!!

And if you can't understand that 14 for 14 is 100% and the absolute best that a closer can possibly do, I really have to question what grade you got in 6th grade math.

So the Sox get a few or couple more wins THAT YEAR!! That's two or three more times White Sox fans are happy and a few less times they're not depressed. I don't understand how you people who argue to flip our quality veterans act like wins never really matter. They matter. Winning is fun; losing sucks. You "flip" guys all get hard ons because some prospect is kicking ass in High A while the major league team is losing 100 games.

This is the "wins and losses don't matter this year" mentality. You now what: They matter. I was at the game Sunday; attendance was over 37,000. So all those people were excited about the Sox only to be down 7 to 1 after four innings. I don't think too many of us were happy. There were a buttload of us waking out after the 7th inning because we bought tickets to see the White Sox win. I keep saying this over and over: I like it when the White Sox win and I get pissed off when they lose. Also, to call a guy who is 14 for 14 in saves this year with a save percentage of 90% as "2nd tier" and "a dime a dozen" is just silly. You know that's not true. You're just saying that to advance your argument, your weak argument.

Oh, you mean a guy like Blake Rutherford, right? You know, Blake with his .230 batting average down in AA after having him for two years, let's trade him for a guy like that.

Okay, I haven't posted in a while on this thread and it's back to being silly again. So here goes again: Hey guys, you win with good players. You don't win with bad players or players in the minors, once again who might or might not make the majors. Why do you guys keep wanting to get rid of the White Sox's best players. Keep Colome, Keep Bummer, Keep Abreu. That's how you win: with good players, not minor leaguers. I forget which game it was this weekend, but when Tommy Kahnle came in with his 2.77 ERA, I thought to myself, "Huh, it should would be nice to have had him for the past TWO YEARS and this year instead of Blake Rutherford STILL down in AA with his .230 batting average. You win with good players, and I like the White Sox when they win. Quit trying to trade all our good players so the Sox can win. You guys drive me crazy!!!!

Well, that's one ground out for the night for Alonso, and a double play for good measure. I will be out in the barn looking for my pitchfork and torch lighter fuel.