vilehoopster

Nova gives us two great games against the Cubs. He wins my goodwill for, at least, the rest of the year.

Yeah, we don't want to be taking left-handed at bats away from Collins who is a .234 career batter in the minors and is "he's 1 for fucking" 19.

No, it's not. Anti-vaxxers quote all these obsurce stats to justify what they do, you know, stats like fwar or wRC+. You use stats that nobody knows anything about, stats that are so numerologic and obsurce that they hide any reality. Anti-vaxxers have to do this to justify their ridiculous beliefs, beliefs that go against the medical establishment, you know, real doctors and the AMA. People use all these silly stats to downplay Abreu's importance and value as a player. And they need to do this because their anti-Jose arguments go against the baseball establishment. You know, the guys who put him on the last two all-star teams, MLB.com naming Jose one of the 100 best players in baseball this spring when no other White Sox made the list. You know those guys, those guys who really know nothing about baseball in the majors, just sportswriters, coaches, and other players. Yes, we big Abreu fans, we're the anti-vaxxers in this metaphor, lol.

I know Palka has looked terrible, but give him a chance to get it together before sending him to the trash heap. The people on here give up on player so quickly and seem to have no memory at all. On another thread, I said this same thing about Lopez. Yes, the guy is really struggling, but give the guy some time to pull it together. Does nobody remember last year with Lopez? It was just last year?? Well, the same logic with Palka. He hit 27 home runs last year, just last year. Three pinch hit home runs. He was the only guy who seemed to be at all clutch last year when nobody else was ever being clutch. I know you can't wait forever for him to pull it together, but give him more than a week and what, 12 or so at bats? We are in such a hurry to dump one player and go on to the next guy on this board.

" Do you not realize that playing a key defensive position like 3B or SS as opposed to being a turnstile at 1B has a lot of value?" I do understand you point and agree with you. But does Machado have 3 times the value or even twice the value of Abreu? I don't start to see that at all. Plus there is that dick factor. Machado stomps 1st basemen's feet and rolls bats where catchers will step on them, where as Abreau is a great clubhouse guy, loved and admired by the younger players. That sort of thing has to have value, financial value. When we sit back and wonder how the Sox are doing what they're doing with their terrible starting rotation problems, all the injuries, and the youth, you have to realize that there's something there that makes the players believe and keeping fighting with all the comeback victories (the Boston game, who hit that home run; last night's game, who won it) who has the players believing they can win now. Of course, it's not all Abreu, but universally, the players say it starts with Abreu. That has value, value that should be repaid with loyalty and, yes, financial compensation. Sign the guy and for more than a year, and pay him what he deserves.

Two quick points: 1st - It's amazing how much better defensively Eloy has gotten in LF, and it's pretty much understood that his improvement is from putting in extra time with Boston. But here's the question, why wasn't his defense worked on last year in the minors? He had to have been bad last year like he was at the start of this year. Why wasn't that extra work put in last year? This really makes no sense to me. When people complain on here about poor player development, I usually just pass that off as sour grapes and complaining to complain. But really, why has Eloy improved so much in just a short time in the majors, and really, why did he come to the majors with so much room for improvement? 2nd thing: I agree that Lopez has been completely awful, but wow have some poster on here been overreacting. Put him in the bullpen? Send him down? I'm pretty sure that at the start of the year, after his great end of the year last year, that most people would have said that Lopez was our # 2 starter after Rodon. In fact, some people thought he might be our # 1 with Rodon's inconsistencies. Are our memories really that short? Lopez was great the last 1/3 of the season. I know it sucks, but give him some time (and a little faith) to get it together. The people on this board are so ready to just give up on this player or that player.

Machado is batting .272, has 20 home runs, 57 RBIs, and an OPS of 852 Abreu is batting .271, has 20 home runs, 63 RBIS, and an OPS of 822. Explain my "terrible logic" that says it stupid to want to pay Machado 30 million a year, but it's okay to nickel and dime Abreu and try to get him for around 10 million a year. Yeah, you're right my logic is terrible. And I say this again: Do you really think that Madrigal, Robert, and Vaughn are all going to be playing for the White Sox next year? All three, next year??

"Burdi and Barnum weren't first round picks. Burger's career has been hampered by injuries, and it isn't done yet. Weak ass argument." I got it off of Wikipedia; they were both supplemental 1st round picks. But you're right that the Sox 1st round picks are always instant successes . . . . cough, cough . . . . Jared Mitchell, Gordon Beckham, and Lance Broadway. "Vaughn, one of the most polished college bats in recent memory, " -- Oh, polished, You mean like Gordon Beckham was continually described coming out of college But let's be honest. Do you really believe Vaughn will be playing 1st base for the White Sox next year? Really? So that Abreu has to go full time DH?

People trying to force Abreu into only DHing or not paying him what he wants are arguing two BIG assumptions as if they were total facts. And they're not facts and really very questionable. 1st assumption: Vaughn is gonna be great and he's gonna be here next year. There's a lot of doubt to both parts of this assumption. I think he's gonna be really good, but we can't assume that like it's a fact. Do I need to bring up some other Sox 1st round draft results? Jake Burger, Burdi, Carson Fulmer; anyone seen Keon Barnum lately? Now, I don't think Vaugh is gonna be a bust; but it's totally unrealistic to think he's going to be playing 1st base for the White Sox next year. It could happen, but because of so many different factors, the odds are really low of that happening. 2nd assumption: Abreu is now on or is about to begin on some sort of speedy downward slope of his abilities, both hitting and fielding, that he's about to suddenly be too old to be any good. I understand that he's over 30, but he far from old. And he's having the best year of his career right now, this year. There is no indication that his skills are failing. I realize that Father Time always wins, but he's not winning so far with Abreu . . . games yesterday and pretty much this entire year show this. Keep Abreu, pay enough to keep him happy (don't insult him with a low-ball offer of forcing him out of playing 1st base) and let's keep him doing what he did yesterday, both games, let's keep him doing that for a few more years. You guys were willing to give a total dick like Machado over 30 million a year for 10 years, but now you're wanting to nickel and dime a loyal soldier who has been here for the worst of the rebuild? Come on; it makes no sense.

I understand wanting to improve on Yolmer, but also, I kinda like Yolmer, all the goofy stuff. Plus, am I correct? Didn't Yolmer throw out two guys at home and also throw out a guy at 3rd in one game last week. No way around it, that's pretty nice defense.

I really don't understand, so please explain this to me. So MLB.com listed the 30 top int'l prospects and where they'll probably sign and for aobut how much. Well, Yolbert is not listed among that top 30 list, and at least half the guys on that list are signing for a lot less than Sanchez, some listed are for under a million dollars. Someone up about said that he was # 5 on the list in 2018. So what is going on? Why isn't Yolbert Sanchez on that MLB.com list if he's signing for $2.5 million. What do I not understand?

I think after how well he did, I think you have to give Detwiler another start, or even a couple starts. Also, I think you have to work Covey in there somewhere. I could see the Sox doing some sort of 6-man rotation to cut down on Cease's innings and therefore his starts. If Detwiler falls apart, it will be Bansuelos and Santiago, probably with Santiago getting first nod over Banuelos.

If you have been reading on this board, you have learned some interesting things about WAR or fwar. Is there a difference between the two? I really have no idea. Some of things quoted on here about war or fwar (again, don't know if one is the same as other one or if there's a difference - and don't tell me; I don't care.) According to WAR: the 2005 World Series Sox every day players were all average or so, and Sox only won that series by pitching. Really, really hard for me to believe, but a weak case could be made for that one. Regardless of home runs and RBIs (and now all-star selection AGAIN), Abreu is a below average 1st baseman. Sorry, can't start to believe that one. And here's the killer and it was on some thread last week or so: Kelvin Herrera has a better WAR than Colome and therefore he is the better pitcher and has done more to help the Sox this year. Honest. Who else remembers that thread? So I got new for all the advanced stat people; I'm gonna pretty much ignore WAR claims and just stick with home runs, RBIs, ERA, saves and stuff like that. Call me crazy.

I don't get how people on here and on that "Colome ample trade interest" thread act like Colome has such little value and they say that the Sox can easily replace him with a free agent next winter? How can you people who say that ignore what he's doing and devalue it? He came in today in a tougher than hell situation because it was the Twins, and then Garcia made it tougher with the lead-off error. And he still got the SAVE. He'd still be perfect in saves if Rondon had gone to 1st instead of home in Boston. The Sox are not just gonna find an any old closer and replace Colome. And it kills me that with McCann doing what he's doing, people also imply on that thread that we would have been better off keeping Narvaez and not gotten Colome. That's just stupid. And if we haven't given Moan4Yoan enough grief yet, he just posted on the "Colome ample trade interest thread" that "Colome still juicing up that trade value. I agee with you guy, I think he wants the Sox to lose.

But on a point of reason, I would trade a couple minor leaguers for Quintana. But that's because he's really still a White Sox.

I wouldn't trade Moncada or McCann for any Cub player, and you know why? Because they're fucking Cubs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've had tickets to that game for weeks!!! Life is great!!!!

Yes, I agree with this guy. I wasn't talking about now; I was talking about at the end of the year, in the off-season. when I think we can get him back.

I agree with this. I miss his defense and am completely underwhelmed by Cordell and Tilson. I know a lot of you get pissed with his bat, but it sure is nice to have a centerfielder who catches everything that is reasonable, and if you complainers are being honest, Engel catches a lot of stuff that is completely unreasonable. His defense is light years better than Leury's and Tilson and I don't think his bat would be any worse than Tilson's or Cordells.

Well, I for one like Palka, and if it's gonna be DH, I would rather have his much more potent bat than Collins. If Collins is not catching and gaining experience there, why have his weak bat in the lineup? Here's a crazy idea: let's have our best available hitters bat and try to win the game because I don't see the Sox winning this game 2 to 1. If he's not playing RF, I don't get why you guys are so down on Palka. I don't even start to see what makes Collins so much a better choice than Palka.

I was watching Sports Talk last night, and Dave Kaplan pretty much dismissed Quintana as a quality pitcher. Kaplan talked about trading Quintana and this guy for that player or trade Quintana for that player; he gave like three trade ideas to help the Cubs and all three involved trading Quintana. Then he said something like about (not sure of quote but this is the idea) that Quintana's velocity is down, he did say "he is what he is" and that he was a "4th" pitcher if that. I just looked it up and Quintana is 0 and 4 with a 5.65 ERA in his last 7 starts. I think the Cubs want to get rid of him because . . . He's their embarrassment of the front office. Whether fair or not, the overwhelming majority of Sox fans blame Yonder and Jon Jay for not getting Machado. That feeling was very evident on this board, and still is, how people talk over and over about how stupid management was to get these guys to try to entice Machado. After he went to San Diego, most of us resented Jay and Alsonso being here and the online noise was and is loud. I think that's part of the reason why Yonder stunk it up so badly this year; he cracked under the pressure to justify that he was here. Maybe not, but the resentment was there and still is. I think the same thing has and is happening with Quintana. Cub fans resent and blame Quintana and they have put enormous pressure on him to justify that trade, and it has really gotten bad. I don't talk to too many Cubs fans, but Kaplan complains about that trade all the time. Mike Wilbon has complained about it on PTI twice that I have seen. After Cease won minors pitcher of the years awards, the complaining got worse, and gets worse with every home run Eloy sends into orbit. I think now the blame and pressure on Quintana greatly surpasses what Yonder and Jon Jay ever received. And I think Quintana is cracking. He is not liked by Cub fans and I have got to believe he wants out and the Cubs management wants him out. The Cubs have the option to resign him for one year for $10.5 million. I don't think either party wants to do that for the reasons I mentioned above. I think the Sox can get him for not very much when you consider the potential return. I say offer one of those outfielders in AA whom the Sox have been waiting to show something, offer one of those and someone significantly less, and I think the Sox can get him and his salary which I think the Cubs also want to get rid of. What do you think? I think if Quintana got back to the Sox, that would go a huge way in getting him back to what he was, if not, I would bet we can him a lot better than he is for the Cubs right now, and he would be a huge help to our pitching staff.

I think there's a real possibility that Palka could be more valuable to the club going forward. Palka hit 27 home runs in the majors last year, including a few really clutch ones. I thinks there might be something about Palka's make up mentally that could make him a very good player. Collins has 49 home runs in four years in the minors. He is a career .234 batter in the minors. There's a real possibility that Collins could turn out to the every bit as good of a batter as Cordell, Rondon, and Delmonico turned out to be (Sarcasm there). You guys all assume that Collins is a sure thing; that automatically he's gonna be a good to very good player. I think you're seeing more with your hearts than your heads. With that said, if I had to pick one. I would pick Collins because of the position he plays, but Collins is in no way clearly better than Palka, and I would say it's pretty close to 50/ 50 which one ends up helping the Sox more.

This is has be the ulitmate example of the White Sox giving a game away. I can half-ass accept that Jay lost that ball in the sun, but not really. But that decision of Rondon to go home was one of the stupidest decisions I can remember in a long time.

I agree. You got to get him out. It's his fault he didn't get the win tonight.

Steve said that Abreu was waiting on an inside pitch. Jason said here it comes inside and next thing, the ball was going over the wall.