Look at Ray Ray Run

No way. Rosenthal is the one who got to this story in the first place. Rosenthal is the best reporter in all of the athletic world; I give him the nod over Woj. Passan has done a nice job, but he hasn't surpassed the GOAT. He didn't praise Russell's choices, or downplay his actions, as much as he applauded taking accountability and not giving fake ass apologies.

The White Sox need not act naive or oblivious to this - it was not some big secret. Hell, I know about it and knew about it before Bauer said anything. How? Because the data is publicly available. l will say there wasn't a dramatic change in his spin rate in Atlanta, and most Houston pitchers have taken their increased spin rate with them when they went to new teams - meaning they likely took with them their learnings... which is exactly how this shit spreads from team to team. Keuchel isn't screwing anyone over anymore than the Braves screwed Ozzie Albies out of what he's actually worth; or anymore than the current arbitration process screws over young players. I'm not going to cry for ownership groups who have implemented a process that pays you less when you're more valuable. As I said, even if you chose not to cheat on some moralistic ground you will still benefit from cheating if you are a MLB player. It is happening all around you. What we view as an egregious act of cheating may be viewed in the game as common practice. You're asking one man to change a century of culture. You're asking one player to go against something that is better for his families future in the name of alturism. You are then judging a mans leadership under the guise that he didn't throw his entire team under the bus.

That's fine and all, but Balta is better off following another game/sport if he is this angry over every attempt to gain an edge. It's entrenched in the culture of the game, and it's never ever going away.

Balta, I'm going to break some very sad news to you based on how you view people who "cheat" in baseball. Since the beginning of time, a vast majority of players have participated in some form of cheating. The game has been defined by players searching for questionably minute edges that fall within the gray area of legality. Pitchers used to use spit, batters used greenies. Some players corked their bats, while others put a substance on their hat to get a better grip on the baseball. Some players went on to use steroids, while others used video technology to steal signs. One team stole data from another, while another lied about how much they were paying players so they could acquire more of them. The Braves weren't alone in that either as it was a widely known way of skirting the international rules. Some teams even went as far as to pay agents to smuggle players and then give them the upper hand in signing them - using force in SOME cases. Every single era of baseball has had some form of cheating/one-upping to gain a competitive edge. If you told me as a senior in college that if I took steroids, I would have been a guaranteed big leaguer - supporting my family for generations to come via my income - I would have taken steroids I think. I like to tell myself I wouldn't, and for the record I have turned them down when offered but that was because the benefit wasn't guaranteed for me; had I been on the fringe of MLB, I would have absolutely done whatever it took to provide for my family. You view all these things through some moralistic lens, but things are much foggier than the clear choice you are painting this as. Keuchel was provided a tool by the team to increase his production and value; greatly improving his families livelihoods and elongating his career, and from his side of things, everyone was doing it. Veterans, rookies, and coaching staffs were pushing and promoting it. Keuchel did what was not only best for his career and his future, but also what he felt gave him an even playing field with everyone else. This isn't as simplistic as I don't cheat... these aren't decisions you've ever had to make in your life. I am not arguing that breaking the rules is OK, but I am certainly arguing that one voice speaking out against a culture of one-upsmaniship, in which everyone searches for questionable edges over their competition, was not going to change or do anything... and it doesn't make you a poor leader, it just makes you another player in the long line of players who did what they thought they had to do to maintain this life and to maintain this dream.

But where was the line? The perception was others are doing this too, we just have to do it better. The problem with this is it was very clearly cheating, but it fit in that gray area of "well, sign stealing is a part of the game." The pitchers on that team are also likely cheating by putting a substance on the ball to increase their spin rates. Bauer has broken this down, and others have insinuated this is 100% happening... Now similarly to above, illegal substances have been used by pitchers and betters for a century and players like excuse their actions and decisions by saying everyone does it. How can Keuchel or Verlander go to Hinch and say this abuse of sign stealing needs to stop while the pitchers were also cheating in some way?

Yes, and none of them said if Dallas Keuchel told me to stop, I would have stopped right away. Hinch was the boss; Keuchel was just a cog in the wheel and he couldn't make any change and I don't think it would be breaking news that most of the pitchers probably didn't think very highly of their cheating.

Again, a pitcher wasn't going to alter the decision making of 75% of the position players. A pitcher being unhappy with the process wasn't going to change a thing. If you believe the manager was already unhappy (I call BS, but that's what was reported) and he couldn't change it, as the boss, then I have no idea what you think Dallas Keuchel could have done.

Everyone. Knew. If you want to know how frowned upon it is to expose your fellow union brothers, look no further than Trevor Bauer. Bauer is pissed about cheating and has hinted at this for two years but he never ever named names, nor did he ever say what was happening. Guys around the league talk - this wasnt a big secret. Multiple teams, privately accused the Astros of this. Nothing happened. To think Dallas Keuchel could have been the leader of change is incredibly funny to me.

Come on; this is quite the reach. Those experiences and memories with his father were created win or lose, and using the death of some man to garner sympathy is a bit low. Again, speaking up publicly could very well have cost Keuchel or Fiers their MLB careers. There is much greater risk in this than you are proclaiming. Trust within a clubhouse are an integral part of ones team building; teams would rather employee a wife beater than someone who makes private things public. I get that's fucked up, but it's reality.

Fiers spoke up because it was the right thing to do, and I truly believe he saw young guys get destroyed and had watched the Darvish situation unfold and he had enough; sure, them rocking him probably gave him a little boost, but I trust and believe Fiers when he said the reason why he did what he did. Saying he was butthurt is the PR spin the Astros placed on this; similarly to Luhnow trying to blame low level employees. There really is a disconnect and separation between pitchers and position players in baseball. They are operated as two separate units, and anything from workouts/weights to drills are typically done as a unit and not as a full team. A pitcher really wouldn't have much power in this situation; however difficult that is to believe or understand. Also, what would Keuchel or Fiers be capable of doing? Hinch already is claiming he didn't like it (he's full of shit), and if he couldn't stop it despite not liking it as manager, what the fuck is Dallas Keuchel going to do? If you go public as a member of the team mid-season, you get blackballed from the league possibly.

Yeah, Frank wasn't going to out his teammates and he wasn't going to point fingers; he simply told us all that it was a huge issue before anyone else said a thing. Frank couldn't stand that players who were worse than him were putting up better numbers; he wasn't going to name names because these are fellow union members and there is an immense amount of pressure to not throw your fellow union members under the bus.

No one is going to speak out against their teammates while a member of that team; it goes against the culture of the game, which you could argue is broken surely but it doesn't take away the fact that you're not going to throw your entire team under the bus while a member of that team. This is Fiers livelihood, and any pushy actions at the time could have cost him his career and his job. I don't blame Fiers one bit for not exposing the charade while he was employed by that organization, and I think you're being very naive if you think Fiers - or any other pitcher - would have the power to put a stop to this solely with their words. Keuchel, or Fiers for that matter, could have spoken out and expressed their disagreements but we would never know, and to think that would accomplish or stop something is naive. Team think and team speak is a very real thing once you become entrenched; it's really difficult to expose them and call yourself into question. You can say that's what you would have done, but history tells us that silence would likely be your course of action as it would be for most everyone.

Cora is absolutely complicit and deserving of punishment and will receive one... but to insinuate that he was the ring leader of this, given the "control" Houston has over their organization and the coaches within it (remember, Houston fired everyone who didn't toe the company line and policy on analytics and process), is nonsensical.

Yeah, the cheating ways he LEARNED in Houston. I can't believe anyone thinks that an organization as obsessed with "process and procedure" as the Astros is buying this idea that a bench coach implemented a plan of coordinated cheating sans any assistance/guidance from leadership/FO/Manager; and better yet, he did it despite receiving blow-back from "players and Hinch." So we're expected to believe that Cora pushed this and ignored leaderships quests to squash it? Yeah, OK! When the Red Sox report comes out I bet we'll learn that Cora said he learned it all from Houston.

Complete nonsense; don't take the Astros blaming an assistant coach who is no longer with the organization as the ring leader. This was a top down plan that would not have been led or devised by an assistant coach.

I said this at the time, but some players do NOT want to know what is coming. Some guys hated when you would even give them the side of the plate the catcher was leaning. Reactionary hitters who have been such their entire lives don't want to put any other inputs into their mind. Guess hitters and attack hitters would love to know the zone or pitch that is coming.

Yeah, which is why the Yankees have won the last 3 World Series with ease. Oh, wait...

I would hope the front office isnt reactionary enough to respond to the results of a 7 game series with some drastic change.

Lastly, for all arguing players should be punished (which I don't disagree with) it just wasn't going to happen. The MLBPA would have spent years fighting any punishments against players and the CBA was far too vague on this to cite a section with expected punishments. Baseball had hard times punishing players who beat their wives/SO before CBA policy change - just to put it into light how difficult it is to punish players.

What you're missing is that the Astros have lost a substantial amount of FO employees over the past 1-2 years because of their success; many people who were near the top have been promoted and hired elsewhere. The Astros have lost a lot of people behind Luhnow, and the one guy they wanted to keep (similarly to Hahn and the Sox) was fired because he was a huge asshole as well. This teams cupboard is running dry, and the ship is now sailing with no captain. I wouldn't be shocked to see most others abandon ship as it was already running light in the first place. The Astros have so much talent I'm not sure it'll matter as much next year, but don't underrate the pressures of overcoming a cheating stigma on players as well.

These players trying to save face is hilarious. "This actually was more distracting than beneficial. I didn't even want to do it." Says guy who participated in 2+ years of blatant cheating that led to a World Series.

Problem is their GM and their guy in line to be the next GM were both removed - 1 banned permanently.

I mean, I imagine many of these people on board are Luhnow guys. He was just removed from his post, and the system beneath him now doesn't have clear leadership. I could see a ton of people jumping ship now. Maybe not, but it would make sense.

I see this the exact opposite way. Luhnow didn't really "know" about this in the same way as the people involved in the day to day. Luhnow also has a skill set that is much harder to replace than a baseball manager. He built an organization and achieved things most GM's can't. I would guess someone rolls the dice on him... heck, Preller got other shots and he's a complete asshole.

Yeah, I assumed Hinch would be fired FWIW. Luhnow I wasn't positive about. This feels like baseball kicking the can down the road for the lifetime ban, and allowing Crane to hand that out himself pretty much.